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Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





The problem is not that they kept jamming in Enginseers, Dominus and Rangers, the problem has been that those units are dead weight. Possible exception of Arquebus MSU Rangers depending.

At least the new arc rifles are amazingly good so hopefully Vanguard receive a useful buff.

Looking at the projected PL of 20 for that box i'm willing to bet Kataphrons went up for sure, too many buffs not to. Thats fine though, because they're now a more elite choice (except that damnable 4+BS/WS) exceptional weapons and durability, more akin to terminators now but with actually good weapons

I'd also hazard a guess that they finally gave the enginseer, something...what'd be nice ios if they gave the enginseer the RR1 in shooting and gave the dominus something new and flavourful.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/16 22:34:51


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I think it's a bit of a shame they've ditched the PL parity across Combat Patrol boxes for this. Like, would it really have killed them to put another sprue in to bump it up to 25PL, same as the others? Oh well.

Tbh I wonder if it's just a case of more stuff literally not fitting in the box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although if they'd even just thrown the Dominus sprue in instead of the Enginseer, that would've bumped it to PL24. Weird.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/17 10:11:45


 
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




United Kingdom

First WarCom article is up - Teleportation, Invisibility, or Orange Paint – Find the Forge World That’s Right for You
   
Made in fi
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Helsinki, Finland

Intresting, Mars dogma allows Skitarii units to benefit from canticles, and seems like the Kataphron units are not core

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.


So Skitarii don't get Canticles natively, but can as Mars. I've been wondering how they would handle this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 12:23:53


 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





I wonder if they only benefit from canticles while near tech priests, but Mars units can do so wherever they are?
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





 Irbis wrote:
WHAT THE feth

So, AoS is getting new, nice, great value Start Collecting box, when 40K players get gigantic frak you middle finger in Vanguard SC being killed in favour of yet another garbage CP box. With a transport thrown in, even though it has negative synergy with all other units in it, instead of something like the Vanguard walker. Oh, and someone should tell WC team '10 Infiltrators or Incursors' claim is utter nonsense, because these models can be ONLY built as Infiltrators!


It's not terrible (yet the invictor would have made more sense), as you're basically getting the current $95 start collecting vanguard, and adding a $75 Impulsor for $45. You can still find plenty of the older sets right now though. The infiltrator/incursor statement was a big oops though.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Octovol wrote:
I wonder if they only benefit from canticles while near tech priests, but Mars units can do so wherever they are?

We know that Doctrina Imperatives are back, so that's likely how things will shake out.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 bullyboy wrote:
It's not terrible (yet the invictor would have made more sense), as you're basically getting the current $95 start collecting vanguard, and adding a $75 Impulsor for $45. You can still find plenty of the older sets right now though. The infiltrator/incursor statement was a big oops though.

It is not terrible, but it's yet another dilution of discount and moving the box out of impulse buy/convince unsure friend to start price range. Especially seeing no unit in the box actually wants the transport and there were loads of better choices.

Plus, it's still feels like middle finger, because AoS is getting great value SC at the same time, not to mention torrent of pseudo-SCs with each Broken Realms book, while 40K side keeps getting more and more shafted

 Nazrak wrote:
Although if they'd even just thrown the Dominus sprue in instead of the Enginseer, that would've bumped it to PL24. Weird.

I honestly wish they had done this, Magos is much better looking mini and can be converted into Enginseer if you really want to easily, something that is impossible the other way...
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




A lot more people play 40k that don't play AOS than vice versa.

Modern GW never does anything out of the goodness of its heart. 40k is GW's gravy train, they're going to keep milking it more and more forcibly until they reach the point where further milking will damage the animal. And judging by last year, there's still a lot of milking they can do.

It's pretty clear these combat patrol sets are mostly about throwing together whatever junk didn't sell well on its own last edition (which ironically, as we've seen e.g. with DE, may or may not be what won't sell when the codex comes out!), as opposed to the SC model that was, well, about starting collections.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 15:45:42


 
   
Made in lt
Longtime Dakkanaut






I'm just here to comment that the dice look ace. And the HQ will fit in nicely in 30k lists.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Sooooo Skitarii lose Canticles? That's stupid.

Otherwise hard to say which Subfaction is better. Graia giving Fearless might work more for me since I'm all about max size Skitarii units. Losing the 6+++ For a 5+++ to only mortal wounds is lame though.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Cog in the Machine




 Spreelock wrote:
Intresting, Mars dogma allows Skitarii units to benefit from canticles, and seems like the Kataphron units are not core


What makes you think Kataphrons are not core?
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sooooo Skitarii lose Canticles? That's stupid.

What was stupid is that they made Canticles the de facto army trait to begin with while putting Doctrina Imperatives as a Stratagem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mariongodspeed wrote:
 Spreelock wrote:
Intresting, Mars dogma allows Skitarii units to benefit from canticles, and seems like the Kataphron units are not core


What makes you think Kataphrons are not core?



This right here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 16:06:44


 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

It would be weird if Skitarii just don't benefit from canticles unless they're Mars. That precludes half the army from a central mechanic, which Knight of the Iron Cog's language implies is exclusive to pure AdMech anyway. I think Octovol's idea is probably correct. The canticle effects might just be auras or are projected by the user. Unfortunately there's nothing to guess about Doctrinas yet.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/17 16:25:29


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Non-CORE Troops is just weird. Looks like they decided that Skitarii would be CORE and everything else wouldn't be.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 DarkHound wrote:
It would be weird if Skitarii just don't benefit from canticles unless they're Mars. That precludes half the army from a central mechanic, which Knigh of the Iron Cog's language implies is exclusive to pure AdMech anyway. I think Octovol's idea is probably correct. The canticle effects might just be auras or are projected by the user. Unfortunately there's nothing to guess about Doctrinas yet.

We know they're not stratagems anymore, as the datacards product info calls them out separate to the stratagems.

Datacards: Adeptus Mechanicus
To help you make the most of your shiny new codex, you’ll want to grab a set of datacards too. This 57-card set includes easy-reference datacards for all of the Stratagems, Doctrina Imperatives, and Canticles of the Omnissiah available to the Adeptus Mechanicus and their mightiest forge worlds. These datacards make keeping track of your assets on the battlefield an absolute breeze (even Mars has wind, after all – those red dunes didn’t form all by themselves).


I'm gonna die laughing if they swapped Canticles back to the "for X units featuring the Canticles of the Omnissiah rule, consult the table to see what it does" method.
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench





It's not stupid that Skitarii don't get canticles, they never had them to begin with until lazy 8th edition came along.

Essentially what it looks like we have now is:

Cult mech get canticles each turn (however the mechanic works now)

Skitarii get doctrina imperitives each turn (however the mechanic works now)

Mars Skitarii get both of them. It's functionally a toning down of the old Mars Dogma where everything got double 'canticles'.

Now Cult mech gets their canticles like they used to, Skitarii get their doctrinas like they used. Both are in theory functionally identical as they used to be in 7th: a buff to one sub-faction of the army.

Hopefully they dont bring back the whole if you take more Skitarii/cult mech your doctrinas/canticles are improved. It would be cool if there was some form of favoured faction choice to be had but counting units is cumbersome as hell lol.
   
Made in au
Krazed Killa Kan






What makes people think Skitarii are getting Doctrina as a faction rule?
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What makes people think Skitarii are getting Doctrina as a faction rule?

Datacards: Adeptus Mechanicus
To help you make the most of your shiny new codex, you’ll want to grab a set of datacards too. This 57-card set includes easy-reference datacards for all of the Stratagems, Doctrina Imperatives, and Canticles of the Omnissiah available to the Adeptus Mechanicus and their mightiest forge worlds. These datacards make keeping track of your assets on the battlefield an absolute breeze (even Mars has wind, after all – those red dunes didn’t form all by themselves).

If it were a Stratagem, they wouldn't have listed it separately.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





yukishiro1 wrote:
Non-CORE Troops is just weird. Looks like they decided that Skitarii would be CORE and everything else wouldn't be.


Feels necessary given the gun upgrades on top of catching T6 if they want to.

   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

Octovol wrote:
It's not stupid that Skitarii don't get canticles, they never had them to begin with until lazy 8th edition came along.

Essentially what it looks like we have now is:

Cult mech get canticles each turn (however the mechanic works now)

Skitarii get doctrina imperitives each turn (however the mechanic works now)

Mars Skitarii get both of them. It's functionally a toning down of the old Mars Dogma where everything got double 'canticles'.

Now Cult mech gets their canticles like they used to, Skitarii get their doctrinas like they used. Both are in theory functionally identical as they used to be in 7th: a buff to one sub-faction of the army.

Hopefully they dont bring back the whole if you take more Skitarii/cult mech your doctrinas/canticles are improved. It would be cool if there was some form of favoured faction choice to be had but counting units is cumbersome as hell lol.
I'm sure they won't bring back the canticle's increased effect per singer. That would split the book in half again, and that's bad for diversity since Cult would essentially have 1 build.

I expect canticles will probably stay largely the same from 8th (perhaps just more powerful), but Doctrinas are going to have to be overhauled. Compared to 7th the hit cap ruins the trade-off mechanic, and it was kind of one dimensional anyway. It would be interesting to see defensive and movement Doctrina effects, but I'd also like to see it be more mechanically distinct from canticles' rotating buffs.

   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Canticles not being on Skitarii already "splits the book in half again".

They absolutely, 100% could bring back the scaling effect again for Canticles though. It worked just fine once they added Servitors and Techpriest Enginseers--and that didn't even include tricksy bits like Knight of the Cog allowing you to grant them Canticles.

Additionally, I'm kind of expecting to see the other Doctrina Imperative from the big webstore bundle show up. "Executioner Extremis" was a Primus Imperative, granting 3 to both WS/BS. It could never be used more than once.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 19:10:40


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

yukishiro1 wrote:
Non-CORE Troops is just weird. Looks like they decided that Skitarii would be CORE and everything else wouldn't be.

Not really. Neither cultists nor Poxwalkers are CORE for Death Guard.
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

The book only gets split if the effect is modified by the number of units using it. In that case, you want to maximize the effect by taking only Cult units. Otherwise it's just a separate buff pool for half your units.

   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 DarkHound wrote:
. Otherwise it's just a separate buff pool for half your units.


Which I wouldn't mind at all. The necrons have a similar split between their core and destroyer units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 21:57:26


 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

I didn't mean to imply otherwise, I think that's exactly what it should be. I'd like it to be more interesting than two tables of rotating buffs, but that's fine.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




The real question is have we gotten any other leaks so far?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Just datasheets. We don't really get leak-leaks anymore.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Kanluwen wrote:
Just datasheets. We don't really get leak-leaks anymore.

Yeah I still haven't seen anything for Skitarii. Hope the Plasma Caliver got a proper buff.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
 
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