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 Pyroalchi wrote:
@ Thairnes response to my question: that sounds sensible to me at least.

I only collect IG and have to say I personally would prefer our normal tanks (except the superheavies) to go back to being 3+ without AoC, but either getting a bit cheaper or getting something else to make them worth taking. In part because I agree that making IG tanks this resilient made the design space for the more elite factions narrower. But that's my opinion and everyone is free to disagree.

I do think though that for all their super-eliteness Custodes should struggle with their numbers on the table being rather limited for board control. At least that was my image of Custodes. What is your opinion on that regarding how Custodes should feel?

IMO russes should not define themselves via a high armour save.. They are not high quality tanks that deflect all blows, they are machines that... just dont break. You can blow a track off, fix it right up. Hit to the engine? Yeah, thats nice, but instead of crashing, it smoulders and grinds on at half the speed. Took a melta to the front and the driver is vaporized? Tough luck, the commander can kick aside the remains and use a steel rod as a steering wheel. A Custodes tank is tough as nails as well, but via a hard as feth to penetrate shell, but way more complex innards so once a shell goes through, it suffers way more than a russ would.
So instead of having a 1+ save, give russes a change to ignore damage or more wounds to show that they are a metal brick that just keeps rolling. Rugged.

Custodes do feel like that already though in that part. I mean yes, thats exactly what a super elite army is. If I lose a unit of the.. 7-8 units I have, I start to have to think about what unit now is supposed to claim which objective. You have no redundancy. If you lose your guardian squad that sits on the backfield objective to, say, a flying hive tyrant, you suddenly are in the gaks because you dont have the numbers to engage the midfield, press the enemy backline AND defend your own. I have to reroute Trajann to that objective to swat at the tyrant instead of using him to dominate the midfield and provide rerolls there, e.g. Decisions get really tricky really fast, especially late in the game when your ressources dwindle.

Let's stop engaging the trolls and get back to talking about the current ruleset.

Tiberias wrote:

Bikes are fine, dreads are fine, general damage output is fine. Infantry needs help regarding internal balance and imo also regarding faction "feel". If custodes get dropped to a 5++ then infantry getting +1 wound is not even a discussion anymore. The game is so lethal that the 4++ keeps custodes afloat.

Yup, the issue pretty much is our infantry doesn't do anything. The profiles on terminators, wardens, and custodian guard are nearly identical. Their shooting is all AP1 which does nothing into Armor of Contempt. Their durability is fine. Their combat is pretty good. So role-wise you have like 50% of the datasheets in the book all shuffling forward 6" a turn hoping get within charge range of an enemy unit. A few of these datasheets have extra movement tricks which gave them niche roles before the nerfs -- terminators, wardens, and venatari. But now that obsec is gone from infantry, none of those movement tricks matter -- being able to move around a little differently serves no purpose when A) you don't have the model count to contest objectives and B) you don't have a damage profile that kills anything different from what your basic troops kill. You'd always rather have more basic troops (for obsec), or more varied damage profiles (contemptors, bikes, forgeworld vehicles) to threaten different types of targets.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

I'd love to see our bikes lose the Missiles, and get better HB profiles.

Have you considered that that would make it really difficult for anyone not using FW stuff in the anti-tank department?

ccs wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

I'd love to see our bikes lose the Missiles, and get better HB profiles.

Have you considered that that would make it really difficult for anyone not using FW stuff in the anti-tank department?

Have you considered we also have good anti-tank without FW? Also, please stop with the ultra condescending tone. Your snark does your point no credit.

The Dreads, Terminators, Trajann, and Captains all do good AT work. As does the new BC in Behemor. The MM on the Plastic dread does good work, and the Wardens with Axes can degrade anything with a normal tank profile very quickly for their cost. Also, not going to lie, but HB do better now than the Melta Missiles, properly setup.

Thats almost all melee work. While true, you essentially have to DS or footslog up the board... none of which is a particularly good idea if you're looking down the.. uh.. "barrels" of a few manticors or demo cannons.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

ccs wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

I'd love to see our bikes lose the Missiles, and get better HB profiles.

Have you considered that that would make it really difficult for anyone not using FW stuff in the anti-tank department?

Have you considered we also have good anti-tank without FW? Also, please stop with the ultra condescending tone. Your snark does your point no credit.

The Dreads, Terminators, Trajann, and Captains all do good AT work. As does the new BC in Behemor. The MM on the Plastic dread does good work, and the Wardens with Axes can degrade anything with a normal tank profile very quickly for their cost. Also, not going to lie, but HB do better now than the Melta Missiles, properly setup.

All true Fezzik, but the point was, I believe, regarding ranged anti tank shooting. Which is more valuable than melee anti tank potential. Salvo launchers are still the best codex solution for that purpose.

 Thairne wrote:
TBH I dont anymore. I've moved them to the ignore list and am now trying to engage in civil discussion with the people that make fair arguments, are open minded and willing to shift their POV.

"I've blocked everyone who doesn't agree with me because I am obviously right".

Sorry, but being extra salty that your gold marines are only marines +1 instead of marines +10 doesn't mean every reasonable person must agree to support your buff demands.

 Dolnikan wrote:
About the whole Caladius and Russ comparison there is one thing that I just didn't see noted anywhere. The Caladius might be made out of better materials, but the Russ is a proper brick and the weaker materials could still be used in far greater thickness to create better armour. I mean, aluminum foil isn't strong, but if you make it an inch thick, you're not going to punch through it. Whereas steel is much stronger, but if it's thinner, it can still be weaker. I don't recall anything about armour thicknesses that would make that a huge difference.

That was exactly the explanation I was giving for the situation. The gold marine tank has armor that is vastly stronger per unit of weight but it has very thin and lightweight armor because it needs to be able to fly. The LRBT has inferior armor per unit of weight but, as a slow ground vehicle, it can pile on literal tons of that inferior armor and have better overall durability. A LRBT made with gold marines materials would either be T16/W50/2++ or would keep its current stat line but have M24 and fly.

This is why they had to shift the argument to the land raider, digging up an obsolete datasheet that hasn't been relevant to any marine faction in well over a decade and pretending that its poor stats are some kind of fluff argument or symptom of a faction-wide problem instead of just a single unit that GW doesn't care about updating.

CadianSgtBob wrote:
No, it's straightforward IP law. Illegal derivative works are not permitted without a license from the IP holder. You can't make a space marine fan film just because you really want one, and if you're dumb enough to try to monetize it and force GW to notice you're going to get shut down.

You can make a fan film all you want. Monetizing it without it being transformative is a problem, of course, but this is not "straightforward" at all. At least not in the way you meant it.

CadianSgtBob wrote:
TTS did not get a C&D letter, even the creator admits this.

True, but GW will not admit what he did was transformative/allowed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

a_typical_hero wrote:
As an uninvolved bystander, I have to say the whole thread feels like people talking past each other or wilfully misinterpreting what was said.

OP and a bunch of others lament that rules don't reflect the fluff enough on the tabletop for Custodes to be fun to play. Players are missing the right feeling.

Some want to argue wether Custodes should be a standalone army in the first place. Which has nothing to do with OP's post.

Others want to argue that they are fine because of winrates.

I've argued they're fine because of fluff. The current difference in on-the-table power levels are fine; Terminators juiced up on that Chaos gak should be a match, or more than a match, for Custodes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tiberias wrote:
It's really funny how in this very thread I listed the in lore flaws custodes have and how that actually makes them interesting (at least to me), but you just ignore it and CadianSgtBob just handwaves it away as boring. Considering this, please demonstrate how custodes players en large don't want a faction with any flaws.

Where did you do that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's not self loathing. Do you remember the wish listing for our faction pre-codex? Here's a few I remember:

D4 axes and d3 spears
Bike Spears get d4 on the charge
Spear and Axe Bolters go to S5 ap1.
All Infantry get +2 wounds across the board

And those are all unreasonable. What's your point?

Hecaton wrote:
You can make a fan film all you want. Monetizing it without it being transformative is a problem, of course, but this is not "straightforward" at all. At least not in the way you meant it.

No you can't. A fan film is a textbook illegal derivative work. This is well established IP law and monetization has nothing to do with its legality. The money issue is only relevant in that many IP owners will pretend not to notice illegal fan works if they are genuine fan projects done purely out of love of the IP and no money is involved.

True, but GW will not admit what he did was transformative/allowed.

Of course GW won't. No legal department with even a basic level of competence is going to give an official statement that something like TTS is allowed. Even if it's clearly a case of fair use they don't want an on-record statement that could be used against them in the future. For example, what if TTS at some point in the future crossed the line into infringement but the creator could show that letter in court. Now instead of merely arguing the details of IP law and the infringing work the case gets derailed into interpreting what exactly GW's approval letter was meant to cover. GW probably still wins the case but it's extra legal costs and an increased risk of failure, all for absolutely no gain.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
If you honestly think they have good business sense i'll just politely point out them issuing cease and desist orders to online content creators who were giving them FREE CONTENT that advertised their games.

Sorry, but no. GW issued C&D letters to people who let their greed get in the way of common sense and tried to monetize their illegal derivative works. That's basic IP law and something that virtually every IP owner is going to do. Every content creator knows the basic rule of making fan works is that as soon as you try to make money from it you're going to get shut down.

Lets take everything in context shall we? GW was NOT producing any content. Fans took it upon themselves to make labors of love short films about their favorite factions, they then released them on Youtube FOR FREE and generated an absolute flood of interest in the hobby. I mean, hell I myself used the Krieg videos and the Astartes film to sucker in like 3-5 guys who are now part of the community.

yes you are right its "ip infringement" and without getting into the hilarity of a company as prone to stealing as GW being upset about IP infringement lets look at it again in context. GW had an asset in these content creators, they were a zero cost advertisement of their biggest product. They literally had to do nothing to support them, pay for them etc, just let them be. Instead GW did GW things...ie sue the hell out of everyone even remotely close to "infringing" on their stolen IP...i mean, totally original, definitely not lifted from dozens of other IPs. So what did they do to fill the gap they themselves created? They created Warhammer+ which so far has received at best Mixed reviews, they also put it behind a paywall so its in essence not an advertising tool but instead just another way to milk their current fanbase for more profit.

GW is successful DESPITE itself, rather then because of itself. It has made some good moves of late but that doesn't even come close to the sheer # of boneheaded mistakes they have made over the years.

SemperMortis wrote:
Lets take everything in context shall we? GW was NOT producing any content. Fans took it upon themselves to make labors of love short films about their favorite factions, they then released them on Youtube FOR FREE and generated an absolute flood of interest in the hobby. I mean, hell I myself used the Krieg videos and the Astartes film to sucker in like 3-5 guys who are now part of the community.

That's not what happened. People were making fan films and GW pretended not to notice, it was only when they started trying to collect money for those films that GW had to take official notice of them and shut them down. If you want to blame someone blame the greedy creators who knew that getting paid would get them shut down and did it anyway because money in their pockets is worth more than recruiting people into the hobby.

I don't know why any of this is controversial. If you make a Star Wars fan film and try to get paid for it Disney is going to shut you down. And, unlike GW, they probably won't offer to hire you to keep working on the project. Same for every other IP owner with enough money to afford a legal department. The lines are well known and you cross them at your own risk.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

ccs wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

I'd love to see our bikes lose the Missiles, and get better HB profiles.

Have you considered that that would make it really difficult for anyone not using FW stuff in the anti-tank department?

Have you considered we also have good anti-tank without FW? Also, please stop with the ultra condescending tone. Your snark does your point no credit.

The Dreads, Terminators, Trajann, and Captains all do good AT work. As does the new BC in Behemor. The MM on the Plastic dread does good work, and the Wardens with Axes can degrade anything with a normal tank profile very quickly for their cost. Also, not going to lie, but HB do better now than the Melta Missiles, properly setup.

It was an honest question. Though perhaps I should have specified shooting AT....

CadianSgtBob wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Lets take everything in context shall we? GW was NOT producing any content. Fans took it upon themselves to make labors of love short films about their favorite factions, they then released them on Youtube FOR FREE and generated an absolute flood of interest in the hobby. I mean, hell I myself used the Krieg videos and the Astartes film to sucker in like 3-5 guys who are now part of the community.

That's not what happened. People were making fan films and GW pretended not to notice, it was only when they started trying to collect money for those films that GW had to take official notice of them and shut them down. If you want to blame someone blame the greedy creators who knew that getting paid would get them shut down and did it anyway because money in their pockets is worth more than recruiting people into the hobby.

I don't know why any of this is controversial. If you make a Star Wars fan film and try to get paid for it Disney is going to shut you down. And, unlike GW, they probably won't offer to hire you to keep working on the project. Same for every other IP owner with enough money to afford a legal department. The lines are well known and you cross them at your own risk.

Well you ignore the fact that 40K fan fiction is above and beyond any animation created by GW proper... But yes they are greedy criminals that bleed poor GW IP.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Lets take everything in context shall we? GW was NOT producing any content. Fans took it upon themselves to make labors of love short films about their favorite factions, they then released them on Youtube FOR FREE and generated an absolute flood of interest in the hobby. I mean, hell I myself used the Krieg videos and the Astartes film to sucker in like 3-5 guys who are now part of the community.

That's not what happened. People were making fan films and GW pretended not to notice, it was only when they started trying to collect money for those films that GW had to take official notice of them and shut them down. If you want to blame someone blame the greedy creators who knew that getting paid would get them shut down and did it anyway because money in their pockets is worth more than recruiting people into the hobby.

I don't know why any of this is controversial. If you make a Star Wars fan film and try to get paid for it Disney is going to shut you down. And, unlike GW, they probably won't offer to hire you to keep working on the project. Same for every other IP owner with enough money to afford a legal department. The lines are well known and you cross them at your own risk.

Because disney is already a MOVIE company making star wars MOVIES. GW is a model/game company that WASN'T making short films. So yes those content creators got paid by youtube from advertising revenue. None of that hurt the company and was in fact making them money from FREE advertising. So yes that is in fact what happened. GW cut off its own nose to spite its face. Not only that they alienated a big portion of the community to the point where there was a boycott of their app which was at least partially successful. Not to mention that their replacement content is mediocre at best.

Vatsetis wrote:
Well you ignore the fact that 40K fan fiction is above and beyond any animation created by GW proper... But yes they are greedy criminals that bleed poor GW IP.

What about it? IP law doesn't care about quality. And their greed didn't hurt GW, it hurt the fans. They could have continued making cool animations for the community to enjoy but they decided they'd rather cash in on their fame and pocket as much money as possible before getting shut down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:
So yes those content creators got paid by youtube from advertising revenue.

That's not all that was happening. They were setting up patreon accounts, asking for "donations", etc. They weren't technically selling the films directly but they were absolutely trying to use their illegal derivative works for financial gain. And, like I said, every single content creator knows there are lines you don't cross if you want to keep doing your thing. But they decided that pocketing a bunch of "donation" money was more important than continuing to produce a cool thing for the community.

ccs wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

ccs wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

I'd love to see our bikes lose the Missiles, and get better HB profiles.

Have you considered that that would make it really difficult for anyone not using FW stuff in the anti-tank department?

Have you considered we also have good anti-tank without FW? Also, please stop with the ultra condescending tone. Your snark does your point no credit.

The Dreads, Terminators, Trajann, and Captains all do good AT work. As does the new BC in Behemor. The MM on the Plastic dread does good work, and the Wardens with Axes can degrade anything with a normal tank profile very quickly for their cost. Also, not going to lie, but HB do better now than the Melta Missiles, properly setup.

It was an honest question. Though perhaps I should have specified shooting AT....

Then you are 100% correct. Melta Missiles are easily our best codex standard AT shooting option. I still think the bikes need to get something to justify the cost. 255 points for 3 shots of Melta doesn't show me anything that can't be done better by a LR. Actually, I want to test that via math hammer. A Landraider, vs 3 Vertus Praetors with missiles is really close in points. For 10 more points you get a Robust T8(9 hopefully?) platform with 4 shots of S9 AP3 D6. Which does 5.185 wounds to a standard T8 platform with no Invuln and a 2+ save. The bikes with three missiles do 5.208. If you add in the HB shots on the LR, its doing 6.296 unsaved damage. The LR by the math is better AT than 3 bikes now, and with the points drop (Hopefully) The LR will get an exact match for the bike squad.

Can someone better at Mathhammer check my math on this?

CadianSgtBob wrote:


No you can't. A fan film is a textbook illegal derivative work. This is well established IP law and monetization has nothing to do with its legality. The money issue is only relevant in that many IP owners will pretend not to notice illegal fan works if they are genuine fan projects done purely out of love of the IP and no money is involved.

No, it has a lot to do with its legality. If you're right, I'm sure you'd be able to cite what law, statute, or treaty you're talking about.

CadianSgtBob wrote:
Of course GW won't. No legal department with even a basic level of competence is going to give an official statement that something like TTS is allowed. Even if it's clearly a case of fair use they don't want an on-record statement that could be used against them in the future. For example, what if TTS at some point in the future crossed the line into infringement but the creator could show that letter in court. Now instead of merely arguing the details of IP law and the infringing work the case gets derailed into interpreting what exactly GW's approval letter was meant to cover. GW probably still wins the case but it's extra legal costs and an increased risk of failure, all for absolutely no gain.

Yes, so GW is a bad faith actor on the subject, good to know. Makes any other claims they make pretty suspect, including "we have to protect our IP by stopping fan works."

I think it's clearly the case that the Astartes Fan Films, and the ones about DKoK were monetized, and had links to patreon pages. It was clearly the intent of the maker to earn money for their work. Which I don't see a problem with. But US patent law is Horrifically bad, and currently, you are not allowed to imitate a copy writed work, and make money off it, without the permission of the CW owner (looking back at case law now...for source) But for example, when a person burns a CD of say, Metallica, and then sells it, that is IP theft, and it's a crime. When the Astartes person made their fan film, they slapped all sorts of IP stuff on it, brands and labels, and then made money off it. This is silly US law, but it's the exact same crime in the eyes of the US courts. It's why Microsoft buys up IPs, and then sues smaller companies out of business. It's how the sausage gets made.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I think it's clearly the case that the Astartes Fan Films, and the ones about DKoK were monetized, and had links to patreon pages. It was clearly the intent of the maker to earn money for their work. Which I don't see a problem with. But US patent law is Horrifically bad, and currently, you are not allowed to imitate a copy writed work, and make money off it, without the permission of the CW owner (looking back at case law now...for source) But for example, when a person burns a CD of say, Metallica, and then sells it, that is IP theft, and it's a crime. When the Astartes person made their fan film, they slapped all sorts of IP stuff on it, brands and labels, and then made money off it. This is silly US law, but it's the exact same crime in the eyes of the US courts. It's why Microsoft buys up IPs, and then sues smaller companies out of business. It's how the sausage gets made.

Why is it horrific that you can't rip off someone else's work without their permission? You know that protects small creators too, right? If I make a new scifi game GW can't steal all of my work and make their own game, using their advantage in economies of scale to undercut my prices and take all of my customers. If I make a successful movie Disney can't make a direct sequel to it and hijack whatever plans I had for my own series. Etc. And it's not just a US thing. The basic rules of copyright law are set by international treaties and apply worldwide, except for a handful of third-world failed states like Russia and China.

And I'm not sure what you're referring to with the Microsoft claim. If the smaller company is using the IP legally then how can Microsoft sue them? Microsoft could choose not to renew their license for that IP but buying an IP doesn't immediately make all licensed uses of it illegal. And if the company was using the IP without a license, well, the stupidity of that business plan should be pretty obvious.

(I'll grant that patent law is a mess and that's what you may be thinking of with Microsoft? But that's not a case of the fundamental concept of patents being immoral, it's just that a lot of tech patents are a complex mess of interlocking and contradictory claims where you can't be 100% sure if something is a patent infringement or not until the case goes to court. And it doesn't have anything to do with straightforward cases of copyright law like the 40k fan films.)

Thanks to DakkA I learned that China in 2022 is a failed state.

Its totally perverse to say that the content creators of 40k fan films (a product GW neglected) are the ones that hurt the fans by forcing GW to intervene and prevent them from continuing giving the fans what they wanted (and GW is currently unable to deliver).

The formallity of the law and the "criminal" nature of this content creators is beyond the point.

Just so everyone is clear, most custodes stuff is garbage now. According to Jack Harpster and Richard Seigler, what keeps the codex going is purely restricted to contempter dreads (they’re surprising good apparently) both flavors of grav tanks, and bike captains. There a few fine stuff like Trajann,shield guard, and the other dreads, but the rest of the book is trash. Pretty much any foot captain is trash at this point, as are terminators, Sagitarum, wardens, both flyers, regular bikes , you get the idea. In other words GW nerfed the main codex to oblivion, but left enough to make sure a good list still existed. That way they can say “there’s no issues with custodes, look at their win rates” because competitive players will most frequently take the best list a book offers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Salt donkey wrote:
Just so everyone is clear, most custodes stuff is garbage now. According to Jack Harpster and Richard Seigler, what keeps the codex going is purely restricted to contempter dreads (they’re surprising good apparently) both flavors of grav tanks, and bike captains. There a few fine stuff like Trajann,shield guard, and the other dreads, but the rest of the book is trash. Pretty much any foot captain is trash at this point, as are terminators, Sagitarum, wardens, both flyers… regular bikes , you get the idea. In other words GW nerfed the main codex to oblivion, but left enough to make sure a good list still existed. That way they can say “there’s no issues with custodes, look at their win rates” because competitive players will most frequently take the best list a book offers.

Vatsetis wrote:
Its totally perverse to say that the content creators of 40k fan films (a product GW neglected) are the ones that hurt the fans by forcing GW to intervene and prevent them from continuing giving the fans what they wanted (and GW is currently unable to deliver).

Why is it perverse? If the creators hadn't tried to get the fans to pay them for their work GW probably never would have shut them down. This is a basic rule of fan works that every creator knows: if you try to monetize your work you will get a C&D letter. They knew taking money was going to get their work shut down, they did it anyway because money was more important than doing the cool thing.

You do not need to make money off a Copyrighted project in order for it to be taken down.
Also, money is literally necessary to live in modern society, so of course they'd appreciate people donating them some money in order to keep animating.
And, I never paid a dime for these animations, and they got me into trying the tabletop. GW is just stupid to get rid of free marketing.

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
You do not need to make money off a Copyrighted project in order for it to be taken down.

You don't. But many, if not most, IP owners will pretend they don't notice your work as long as you don't make any money with it. All of the people who got shut down knew that line existed and knew what happens if you cross it. And they did it anyway.

Also, money is literally necessary to live in modern society, so of course they'd appreciate people donating them some money in order to keep animating.

Ok? They can appreciate it all they want but it's still illegal to do it and it's still crossing a line that will get you shut down. I can't say I wouldn't do the same in their place, cashing in on my fame as much as possible before getting shut down. But let's not pretend that they didn't make that very deliberate choice to cash in and end production on their films.

And, I never paid a dime for these animations, and they got me into trying the tabletop. GW is just stupid to get rid of free marketing.

GW is smart to get rid of for-profit illegal derivative works, just like every other IP owner with enough money for a legal department. Good luck convincing Disney not to shut down your for-profit Star Wars fan movie because it's "free advertising".

They're within their rights to shut it down, but it was extremely stupid. It was literally free advertisement. They lost no money due to it existing, and gained customers. The better comparison for GW is game companies. How many games studios disallow fan animations? Very, very few. Because it's free advertisement for the game.

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
They're within their rights to shut it down, but it was extremely stupid. It was literally free advertisement. They lost no money due to it existing, and gained customers. The better comparison for GW is game companies. How many games studios disallow fan animations? Very, very few. Because it's free advertisement for the game.

How many games studios allow for-profit illegal derivative works? My guess is very few, unless they can't afford a legal department to send the C&D letters.

But, again, you can say all you like that GW should have allowed it. The reality is that every one of those animators knew that accepting money was the end of their 40k work and they cashed in anyway. If you want someone to blame then blame their greed. Don't blame GW for doing what pretty much any company would do in this situation.

Lots of game studios allow for for profit derivative work. SFMs are hugely popular, and a vast majority use characters and assets from TF2. In addition, there's plenty of animations of various non game media paid for by patreon, but released freely. Because someone donating you money is not making free content into paid content. I didn't spend $10 to watch If The Emperor Had a Text to Speech Device. It wasn't paid content. It was free. I'd assume you're just as against Battle Reports, considering they often are paid content, and fall under the same laws?

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
Lots of game studios allow for for profit derivative work. SFMs are hugely popular, and a vast majority use characters and assets from TF2.

https://www.sourcefilmmaker.com/faq/

Q. Can I make money with this tool? Yes, but not if you�re using Valve�s assets in your movie. The tool is free for non-commercial use. You can use Valve�s game assets (things like characters, props, particles, textures, and sounds) to create movies and images to share with the game community, as long as what you create is free. We�re not giving you a license to commercialize our assets. However, if you do not include any of Valve�s assets in the movies and images that you make, then there are no restrictions on what you do with your content and you can make money with it.

That seems pretty black and white, you may not use Valve IP for any commercial purpose.

In addition, there's plenty of animations of various non game media paid for by patreon, but released freely. Because someone donating you money is not making free content into paid content.

"I'm not getting paid for this, I'm getting paid because these random unrelated people just love giving me money" is an argument that fools nobody. We all know why people were donating money and it wasn't for their amazing non-40k content.

(And remember, GW doesn't need to care if it's technically paid content or not. Illegal derivative works are illegal regardless of whether or not money changes hands, taking money for your illegal derivative work just provokes the IP owner into actually enforcing their rights instead of pretending they don't notice.)

I'd assume you're just as against Battle Reports, considering they often are paid content, and fall under the same laws?

I'm not "against" any content, I'm simply pointing out that GW's actions regarding for-profit illegal derivative works were very predictable and standard practice for IP owners. The only thing I'm against is people blaming GW instead of the content creators who decided that money was more important than continuing to produce cool movies.

And no, battle reports don't fall under the same laws. Battle reports are textbook fair use and legal, even if done for profit. Maybe you should review some basic IP law, specifically the difference between creating a derivative work and creating commentary about a work?

COuld you guys please not derail the thread into the copyright argument?

Hell i wrote an entire fandex for how i wanted Custodes to be in 9th, and I will admit looking at it now i underpointed stuff by 5-10pts.

I still think my version is a better representation of actual custodes abilities on the table.

There are ways i would utilize our current dex though if i could change a few things.

For example, take the bodyguard rule off of wardens completely and give them something like:
Martial Temperance- In your command phase, after you have revealed your Martial Ka'tah stance choice, you may have each unit of wardens pick whichever stance from any of your 3 selected Matial Ka'tah's to be in for the battle round.