NEW SM Codex

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**ProfSrlojohn**

Beaker07 wrote:
Is there any info in this re The Legion Of The Damned? thanking you

Legion of the damnd are in the "agents of the Imperium" faction's legends document. You can try and run them on their own in a faction-rule-less list, or one-per1kpts in another army.

**Voss**

Geifer wrote:
Nevelon wrote:
Still meh on the new chaplain mini. Interesting that he’s got a few custom options (like 2 crozious tops) how many TDA chaplains are most people going to want/need? I suspect the answer is around zero, but probably tops out at one. Still, more options are always welcome, just a little surprised to see them here. Will kitbash my own once I see the rules.

No or only one Terminator Chaplain sounds like heresy to me. I may have overindulged in the past because points limits back in the day meant I'd use exactly one character in my army, but I had way more Chaplains than that, both terminator and power armored. If I played these days, with how armies have gotten bigger in the meantime I might just use two of them. So I can definitely appreciate the extra bits.

That said, I'm not big on this particular model either. It's decent for the bits, or as a base model for a proper Chaplain conversion. But stock it's way too bland for my taste.

Also curious to see they thought a Terminator Chaplain of all people needs a storm shield.

Storm shield is basically a pure math buff. Against damage 2 or damage 3 weapons, you need an additional failed save to actually die.

Its reasonably useful if you want to keep your squad buff in the face of devoted [precision] snipers or assorted tyranid beasties. Trashing a stormbolter for it is worthwhile against a number of armies.

**H.B.M.C.**

I just think he looks cool with the Storm Shield.

*shrugs*

**Nevelon**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just think he looks cool with the Storm Shield.

*shrugs*

In the grand scheme of things the difference between and extra wound and a couple more bolter shots will probably wash out in the variability of the dice, so might as well go with what you think looks better.

**VladimirHerzog**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ok, so 100% no more Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields or even Chainswords on Captains anymore.

Marines get more and more like CSM every day...

Hey, Chaos Lords still get these options (for now), they can even take TWO lightning claws (except it does litterally nothing)

**Geifer**

Nevelon wrote:
Geifer wrote:
Nevelon wrote:
Still meh on the new chaplain mini. Interesting that he’s got a few custom options (like 2 crozious tops) how many TDA chaplains are most people going to want/need? I suspect the answer is around zero, but probably tops out at one. Still, more options are always welcome, just a little surprised to see them here. Will kitbash my own once I see the rules.

No or only one Terminator Chaplain sounds like heresy to me. I may have overindulged in the past because points limits back in the day meant I'd use exactly one character in my army, but I had way more Chaplains than that, both terminator and power armored. If I played these days, with how armies have gotten bigger in the meantime I might just use two of them. So I can definitely appreciate the extra bits.

That said, I'm not big on this particular model either. It's decent for the bits, or as a base model for a proper Chaplain conversion. But stock it's way too bland for my taste.

Also curious to see they thought a Terminator Chaplain of all people needs a storm shield.

Don’t get me wrong, I love chaplains, of all types, and have fielded them even in editions where they were sub par. But I recognize that I’m a minority. Looking at the current rules, I don’t see much advantage to taking him over a librarian/captain.
From a fluff POV how many TDA chaplains are going to be available to a given chapter?

As for the shield, currently that looks like swapping out a SB for an extra wound. (Looking at similar character options). If you were going to stick him with some assault marines that aren’t going to be shooting anyway, why not?

I’ll be modeling the leviathan captain into a chaplain, but am going to wait until I have codex in hand before picking up the knife. This model just don’t do it for me.

A chapter could have as many Teminator Chaplains as they have Chaplains with terminator honors and suits with their name on. The practical limitation is whether a Chaplain of the battle companies would fit into their combat doctrine if he was the only one to run around in terminator armor. I imagine that the situation has become even more fluid now that Girlyman has declared his big book of rules a big book of guidelines.

I hadn't realized that the storm shield is only a wound buff now (also thanks to Voss for the explanation). Goes with the rest of the edition, I guess.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just think he looks cool with the Storm Shield.

*shrugs*

My old conversion based on Lysander, sure. This one? Eh. It's the thought that counts, I guess.

**Nevelon**

VladimirHerzog wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ok, so 100% no more Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields or even Chainswords on Captains anymore.

Marines get more and more like CSM every day...

Hey, Chaos Lords still get these options (for now), they can even take TWO lightning claws (except it does litterally nothing)

There used to be some very obscure corner cases where having a backup weapon could hypothetically be useful (Jain Zar disarming you, maybe a few others) but did any of those even make it to 10th?

**LunarSol**

Nevelon wrote:
I wonder if there is going to be a good counts-as for them in the new book? Just a way to get some flaming undead marines to the table.

Would like to see them added to a potential imperial ally book sometime down the road. They are too cool to just let drift away.

The good news is if that's what you want to run, you can run them under any chapter you want. Some probably fit better than others (anything with a Teleportarum, I'd guess) but if you want LoD Outriders with White Scars rules, go for it.

**VladimirHerzog**

Nevelon wrote:
VladimirHerzog wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ok, so 100% no more Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields or even Chainswords on Captains anymore.

Marines get more and more like CSM every day...

Hey, Chaos Lords still get these options (for now), they can even take TWO lightning claws (except it does litterally nothing)

There used to be some very obscure corner cases where having a backup weapon could hypothetically be useful (Jain Zar disarming you, maybe a few others) but did any of those even make it to 10th?

Right now it does litterally nothing, you're better off just taking a thunderhammer/PF + plasma pistol since theyre the better weapons. My NL lord is wielding two claws but one is really a plasma pistol

**Nevelon**

Geifer wrote:

A chapter could have as many Teminator Chaplains as they have Chaplains with terminator honors and suits with their name on. The practical limitation is whether a Chaplain of the battle companies would fit into their combat doctrine if he was the only one to run around in terminator armor. I imagine that the situation has become even more fluid now that Girlyman has declared his big book of rules a big book of guidelines.

I hadn't realized that the storm shield is only a wound buff now (also thanks to Voss for the explanation). Goes with the rest of the edition, I guess.

True. I tend to think of TDA chaplains being stuck with the one in the 1st company. The head chaplain for the whole chapter would also probably fit.

That also shows my Ultramarine bias. Not every chapter isolates it’s TDA suits in the 1st.

**drbored**

So, with the company command squad, are ancients and company champions being made into a single unit or can you still take them separately? I'm hearing mixed info from different sources.

**H.B.M.C.**

I'd be shocked if they can be taken as separate units. Boxed-based unit sizes is the new NMNR in 10th.

**No One Important**

I believe the table of contents shown in the weekly preview had them listed as separate units, but I can't make it out on my phone to confirm that.

**drbored**

No One Important wrote:
I believe the table of contents shown in the weekly preview had them listed as separate units, but I can't make it out on my phone to confirm that.

Ah I see it now. Looking at the Table of Contents, the Ancient can be taken on his own, but the Company Champion is only in the 'company heroes' squad.

So if you got an ancient on his own, you're still fine, but if you got that limited company champion, then you need to build a squad around him to use him as that.

**H.B.M.C.**

Is it the Ancient or Bladeguard Ancient (or is that also a separate unit)?

**Matrindur**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Is it the Ancient or Bladeguard Ancient (or is that also a separate unit)?

There are separate unit entries for Ancients, Terminator Ancients and Bladeguard Ancients in addition to the Company Heroes entry

**Matt.Kingsley**

Reemmber, they also sell a standalone Ancient kit as part of the regular lineup of Space Marine characters (unlike the Company Champion, who was an event model they brought back once for a Made to Order run)

So he gets to be his own character, the Champion doesn't

**H.B.M.C.**

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Reemmber, they also sell a standalone Ancient kit as part of the regular lineup of Space Marine characters (unlike the Company Champion, who was an event model they brought back once for a Made to Order run). So he gets to be his own character, the Champion doesn't

I can't tell you how much that gaks me...

And I'm guessing they won't add to the Legends document to add in all the units they just cut (including Mr. Solo Champion).

**AduroT**

Pretty sure the model reveal called it a Relic Shield, which at least in 9th was something different than a Storm Shield. Did the Relic Shield get axed in 10th?

**Manfred von Drakken**

AduroT wrote:
Pretty sure the model reveal called it a Relic Shield, which at least in 9th was something different than a Storm Shield. Did the Relic Shield get axed in 10th?

Not that I've seen, but since wargear is all unit-specific it's basically just a storm shield by another name.

**Nevelon**

Manfred von Drakken wrote:
AduroT wrote:
Pretty sure the model reveal called it a Relic Shield, which at least in 9th was something different than a Storm Shield. Did the Relic Shield get axed in 10th?

Not that I've seen, but since wargear is all unit-specific it's basically just a storm shield by another name.

Doing a search for “Relic Shield” in the index it looks like all the shields on captains were rebranded to relics and just give +1W these days. Storm shields vary a bit on what they do, but look to be 4++ on things that don’t have an invuln, or +1W for those that do.

Barring some major change from the index (which they could do) since the chaplain already has an invuln, I’d wager the shield is going to be a spare wound for him.

**Lord Damocles**

It's good how strapping a skellington to your shield deactivates the forcefield.

They should try shooting bones at titans...

**Nevelon**

Lord Damocles wrote:
It's good how strapping a skellington to your shield deactivates the forcefield.

They should try shooting bones at titans...

At least you get the extra wound.

With storm/relic shields giving a 4++ these days it would be otherwise useless to give them to characters who already had one. And they do look cool; nice to have a reason to take one.

**Dawnbringer**

Nevelon wrote:
Lord Damocles wrote:
It's good how strapping a skellington to your shield deactivates the forcefield.

They should try shooting bones at titans...

At least you get the extra wound.

With storm/relic shields giving a 4++ these days it would be otherwise useless to give them to characters who already had one. And they do look cool; nice to have a reason to take one.

Yeah, the calling them Relic shields is to differentiate what they do, because as it was said, a storm shield giving a 4++ to a model already with a 4++ is redundant.

**tneva82**

Lord Damocles wrote:
It's good how strapping a skellington to your shield deactivates the forcefield.

They should try shooting bones at titans...

Well. 2 4++'s pointless so better this way

**Hellebore**

I don't mind the extra wound, it's a relatively simple solution to invuln stacking.

It seems to be a standard mechanic across the game now, anytime two invulns collide, you get more wounds.

**Lord Damocles**

I wonder how any previous edition coped with the problem of multiple invulnerable saves. What horrors we must have endured.

**Dawnbringer**

Lord Damocles wrote:
I wonder how any previous edition coped with the problem of multiple invulnerable saves. What horrors we must have endured.

You only used the best one. Which would make the shield on the captain irrelevant (previous editions termi armour just have a 5+ inv, so the storm shield improved that by one, in that it was a 4+ that replaced it). But yeah, of all the things to complain about with GW's rules right now, I'm sure this whole shield adding one to the wound is definitely near the top.

**Irbis**

GW hates conversions so much they feature them every time, eh?

Also perfect response to that dumb complain about SG kit not featuring every mark of armor ever, you want to make them more Phobos, converting with spare arms/helmets/trinkets is really not that difficult...

**Matt.Kingsley**

Dawnbringer wrote:
Nevelon wrote:
Lord Damocles wrote:
It's good how strapping a skellington to your shield deactivates the forcefield.

They should try shooting bones at titans...

At least you get the extra wound.

With storm/relic shields giving a 4++ these days it would be otherwise useless to give them to characters who already had one. And they do look cool; nice to have a reason to take one.

Yeah, the calling them Relic shields is to differentiate what they do, because as it was said, a storm shield giving a 4++ to a model already with a 4++ is redundant.

Except Assault Termiantors and Terminator Ancients have Storm Shields (not Relic Shields) that grant +1 wounds.
The name doesn't really mean anything, GW just decided it was cooler to call the shields Captains (and now Chaplains) get "Relic Shields" instead of going back to using the regular "Storm Shield" name they'd had before 9th.