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2024/09/06 16:50:04
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Foxy Wildborne
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People worried two editions ahead if they can still use the same 50€ box of plastic dudes when they should be worried if there will still be food and electricity
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Posters on ignore list: 36
40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.
Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here. |
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2024/09/06 17:32:56
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Posts with Authority
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What's this "Angels Of Death" team they are showing here? Something new..?
Seeing as it would be quite trivial to port KT21 Compendium Teams for KT24, I am not too fussed about team rotation just yet.
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"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems" |
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2024/09/06 19:00:03
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
London
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deano2099 wrote:
It's just ten guys. And the compendium teams were designed so you didn't even have to build and paint those ten guys, you could just use minis you already had. I'm sure they exist but I honestly struggle to understand the mindset of someone who started playing a compendium team, enjoyed the game itself enough to keep playing it on a regular basis for three years and in all that time not a single one of the 22 boxed teams appealed to them in the slightest. I don't doubt they exist but I suspect they're quite rare.
Must be something in the water, we have a bunch in London Lots of casual players playing a dozen+ systems who don't mind the odd game using the stuff they have (and yes some bought the odd team), but move on easily because the investment of changing for a casual game system is too much when there are other new opportunities.
Hopefully the new edition will entice new players, but for minimal effort they could have had a few more.
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2024/09/06 19:45:55
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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Sometimes I'm reminded of the Dennis Miller joke from 1989 about how you can't make everybody happy: "I'm sure there's a protest out where the wall once stood by the East Berliner Handball League"
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2024/09/06 20:30:14
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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2nd Lieutenant
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The_Real_Chris wrote:deano2099 wrote:
It's just ten guys. And the compendium teams were designed so you didn't even have to build and paint those ten guys, you could just use minis you already had. I'm sure they exist but I honestly struggle to understand the mindset of someone who started playing a compendium team, enjoyed the game itself enough to keep playing it on a regular basis for three years and in all that time not a single one of the 22 boxed teams appealed to them in the slightest. I don't doubt they exist but I suspect they're quite rare.
Must be something in the water, we have a bunch in London Lots of casual players playing a dozen+ systems who don't mind the odd game using the stuff they have (and yes some bought the odd team), but move on easily because the investment of changing for a casual game system is too much when there are other new opportunities.
Hopefully the new edition will entice new players, but for minimal effort they could have had a few more.
A few more what? People that don't buy Killteam minis? Not taking a side in the argument of if it is right or not, but I'd wager GW doesn't care about losing players that don't buy the product.
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2024/09/06 20:55:51
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Fixture of Dakka
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If the faction/team rules are free going forward then its something I can live with. Its only a single unit's worth and therefore not as nasty a blow as losing the entire Sacrosanct Chamber in AoS.
Even if going with only Eldar teams, there'll still be others I can fall back on even when the Void Dancer team bows out. Quite excited on that one as I've seen a new Harlequins kit for KT in the crystal ball...
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Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
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2024/09/06 21:35:27
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Dudeface wrote: Shakalooloo wrote:People that don't play in tournaments don't need to worry about this rotation business.
They do in an edition or two when they don't publish rules for the killteam at all.
GW usually does that without several years' warning.
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2024/09/07 10:09:26
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader
Oakland, CA
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Yeah... This announcement just doesn't bug me.
I don't play the tourney scene, preferring a more casual game. No one I play will care.
Neither am I so beholden to one team that it's retirement 3 years from now will crush my game mojo. Between now and then, one of the new teams will pique my hobby interest.
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2024/09/07 11:13:19
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Dakka Veteran
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The optimistic take for me is that it creates space for new teams/kits for factions. If they cycle out older kits they can bring out a new killteam for that faction without the range getting too excessive. Maybe the option for more mixed kits specifically for KT rather than just a 40k unit. For example a Nid KT would really have a few different types of creatures. They could push the specialist models in a unit to be quite different ..
Always nice to get new kits for your favourite faction!
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2024/09/07 11:43:52
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Dakka Veteran
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Prometheum5 wrote:I just want GW to release a game and let people play it. I don't want to have to keep track of set rotations and errata and what's legal on any given day if I'm trying to get a pickup game.
The contradiction in that is that if just stopped releasing stuff for it, people would declare the game "dead" and you're not going to be able to get a pick up game for it. My Netrunner cards are fine, the game still plays fine, got a bunch of pre-built decks I can play with friends at home, but I'm not going to be able to just drop by my local game store and get a game of it.
I mean I don't disagree with you, I want that too, it's just not really possible. (Might I dare suggest you're better off joining a board game group where that's precisely how games work?)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The_Real_Chris wrote:deano2099 wrote:
It's just ten guys. And the compendium teams were designed so you didn't even have to build and paint those ten guys, you could just use minis you already had. I'm sure they exist but I honestly struggle to understand the mindset of someone who started playing a compendium team, enjoyed the game itself enough to keep playing it on a regular basis for three years and in all that time not a single one of the 22 boxed teams appealed to them in the slightest. I don't doubt they exist but I suspect they're quite rare.
Must be something in the water, we have a bunch in London Lots of casual players playing a dozen+ systems who don't mind the odd game using the stuff they have (and yes some bought the odd team), but move on easily because the investment of changing for a casual game system is too much when there are other new opportunities.
Hopefully the new edition will entice new players, but for minimal effort they could have had a few more.
Could they? It's still a new system, there's still effort involved in learning the new rules. The only difference is they don't have to buy and paint up ten minis. If that's the only blocker then like others have said, just take one of your teams along and let them play that.
Honestly I'd suspect those are people who'd rather be playing one of the other 11 systems they're into and are just helping you out by playing a few games. Like I said, they can't enjoy the system that much if they're people actively buying and playing various systems but didn't want to spend £35 and paint up a box of ten minis to try a different team.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/09/07 11:50:33
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2024/09/07 12:44:20
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Think it's an awful change. GW must be fairly disconnected from the playerbase, seeing as how Legends is one of the biggest bugbears in the community rn.
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2024/09/07 14:04:27
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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Dudeface wrote:They do in an edition or two when they don't publish rules for the killteam at all.
If they're that concerned, maybe they should diversify and not just only ever play one Kill Team that's been around for 5 years at that point.
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2024/09/07 15:17:44
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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RaptorusRex wrote:Think it's an awful change. GW must be fairly disconnected from the playerbase, seeing as how Legends is one of the biggest bugbears in the community rn.
I have no problems with Legends/Legacies, it's far better than having no rules at all - and that was usually the only other option in the past. I use them and would have no problems at all if someone else is using them too.
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2024/09/07 17:38:11
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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Gert wrote:Dudeface wrote:They do in an edition or two when they don't publish rules for the killteam at all.
If they're that concerned, maybe they should diversify and not just only ever play one Kill Team that's been around for 5 years at that point.
I don't disagree, I don't think this is unreasonable at all, but there is a definite end point even for casual pay.
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2024/09/07 18:41:09
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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RaptorusRex wrote:Think it's an awful change. GW must be fairly disconnected from the playerbase, seeing as how Legends is one of the biggest bugbears in the community rn.
I agree.
I think it was a mistake in Underworlds too, and they still had valid rules to play with, they just weren't tournament safe.
This is a hobby where modelling and painting is too significant a creative endeavour for dumping support to ever feel good, especially on spurious balance concerns.
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2024/09/07 18:46:33
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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Dudeface wrote:I don't disagree, I don't think this is unreasonable at all, but there is a definite end point even for casual pay.
How? If it's casual then the fact that these Kill Teams are legal for tournament play doesn't make one iota of difference. The biggest hindrance will be that the kits won't be explicitly named as Kill Team boxes anymore as they will just get folded into regular 40k.
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2024/09/07 18:53:33
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Fixture of Dakka
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Gert wrote:Dudeface wrote:I don't disagree, I don't think this is unreasonable at all, but there is a definite end point even for casual pay.
How? If it's casual then the fact that these Kill Teams are legal for tournament play doesn't make one iota of difference. The biggest hindrance will be that the kits won't be explicitly named as Kill Team boxes anymore as they will just get folded into regular 40k.
Depending on how significant edition-on-edition change will end up being, the fact that there is going to be an end point on rules support for teams - ignoring tounament support for now - is going to be the problem. Not today, not next week, but it's a problem that the recent article spelled out.
And the fact some of y'all are happy with that approach is... disappointing, to be polite.
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2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG
My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote:This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote:You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling. - No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... |
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2024/09/07 19:02:00
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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Gert wrote:Dudeface wrote:I don't disagree, I don't think this is unreasonable at all, but there is a definite end point even for casual pay.
How? If it's casual then the fact that these Kill Teams are legal for tournament play doesn't make one iota of difference. The biggest hindrance will be that the kits won't be explicitly named as Kill Team boxes anymore as they will just get folded into regular 40k.
Because the edition will change, rules will change and they won't publish updated rules for ever. They state as much: "From now on, every kill team will receive consistently updated rules for two editions".
If they introduce a new stat or something in that 3rd edition then they no longer are compatible with the current rulesset.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Dysartes wrote: Gert wrote:Dudeface wrote:I don't disagree, I don't think this is unreasonable at all, but there is a definite end point even for casual pay.
How? If it's casual then the fact that these Kill Teams are legal for tournament play doesn't make one iota of difference. The biggest hindrance will be that the kits won't be explicitly named as Kill Team boxes anymore as they will just get folded into regular 40k.
Depending on how significant edition-on-edition change will end up being, the fact that there is going to be an end point on rules support for teams - ignoring tounament support for now - is going to be the problem. Not today, not next week, but it's a problem that the recent article spelled out.
And the fact some of y'all are happy with that approach is... disappointing, to be polite.
Are you expecting them to make casual only rules for 70+ Kill Teams, all with unique functions?
I know it's not fantastic to hear but knowing you get 2 editions of support and that'll span 6 years-ish from here on out is more than a lot of people get.
If people never need to buy anything new they'll simply stop making it period, which will kill any enthusiasm much faster.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/09/07 19:04:47
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2024/09/07 19:11:10
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Second Story Man
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there is a difference between people want to buy something new and people must buy something new
and if there are too many teams, nobody asked GW to make a new one every 2 months or a new Edition every 3 years
they wanted to release more per year and now facing the problems that come with that
and forcing people to buy new stuff is only a solution for GW and a customer should never happily accept when he gets told that they must buy new stuff to keep going
practically, they just wrote down what was the case anyway, single models or units became obsolete over since forever with GW as their business model works that way, it is just the first time that they tell this to people instead of having white knights argue that technically you can still play with your old models if you have the right group
and there are people out there who still enjoy first edition Kill Team (the original one from 15 years ago) but this does not mean that everyone who build a KT during those days can still play it
that GW is now confident enough to write this down and most people don't care is a reason why they are the market leader
if any other game company would make such an announcement they can close their doors the next day
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/09/07 19:16:26
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise |
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2024/09/07 19:29:27
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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Dysartes wrote:Depending on how significant edition-on-edition change will end up being, the fact that there is going to be an end point on rules support for teams - ignoring tounament support for now - is going to be the problem. Not today, not next week, but it's a problem that the recent article spelled out.
Dudeface wrote:Because the edition will change, rules will change and they won't publish updated rules for ever. They state as much: "From now on, every kill team will receive consistently updated rules for two editions".
If they introduce a new stat or something in that 3rd edition then they no longer are compatible with the current rulesset.
If you're worried that a Kill Team you bought 3 years ago won't be tournament-legal in another 3 years, it seems like you have 3 years to maybe change that no?
Again the hypothetical here is that people have never bought anything other than one Kill Team that was released in 2020 and will never buy any other Kill Team ever.
You aren't even spending money on rules anymore literally all you have to do is get minis of which there are a hundred sources to get from.
It's such a non-issue but I guess having basic problem-solving skills makes me a white knight for GW.
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2024/09/07 19:49:07
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's not tournament legality, Gert. We all know how Legends goes.
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2024/09/07 20:01:00
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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Good lord the need for drama for Warhammer players is beyond a joke. You act like GW has sent hitmen to your home to burn your older models.
God forbid you spend £40 on a Kill Team every four years.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/09/07 20:01:43
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2024/09/07 20:28:09
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Sureshot Kroot Hunter
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You mean you don't like the appeal to probability fallacy argument that some future opponent at your LFGS is going to say no to a Kill Team match because your team isn't in the latest tournament approved list?
The pendulum always swings in either -
1. GW hasn't updated my army/models/characters in forever and hates me. Space marines always get updates and Dark Eldar never get updates.
2. GW just invalidated my awesome tournament list by releasing a new army/model/character and made my army underpowered. Now I have to start all over again with these new shiny models.
People are going to complain because it's what they do.
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2024/09/07 21:02:00
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Calculating Commissar
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Jammer87 wrote:You mean you don't like the appeal to probability fallacy argument that some future opponent at your LFGS is going to say no to a Kill Team match because your team isn't in the latest tournament approved list?
The pendulum always swings in either -
1. GW hasn't updated my army/models/characters in forever and hates me. Space marines always get updates and Dark Eldar never get updates.
2. GW just invalidated my awesome tournament list by releasing a new army/model/character and made my army underpowered. Now I have to start all over again with these new shiny models.
People are going to complain because it's what they do.
You're talking like these are the same people, when they may well be two distinct groups. There is probably overlap, but I highly doubt the GW player population is homogenous.
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2024/09/07 21:55:56
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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I am not interested in a Kill Team re-boot at all. We really do not need new editions every 2-3 years. It's not like they are making the rules "better", just different. Does every US House of Representatives session need their own commemorative Kill Team edition?
1st Edition - 2016
2nd Edition- 2018
3rd Edition- 2021
4th edition- 2024
I am suddenly reminded why I got off the GW merry-go-round. It makes me dizzy.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/09/07 21:59:12
Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing |
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2024/09/07 22:03:56
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Jammer87 wrote:You mean you don't like the appeal to probability fallacy argument that some future opponent at your LFGS is going to say no to a Kill Team match because your team isn't in the latest tournament approved list? You can belittle it as fallacy all you want, but the fact remains that many communities do as a whole or individually have players that refuse to play against Legends specifically because they're not tournament legal. That is a reality players deal with regularly, whether right or wrong.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/09/07 22:04:34
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2024/09/07 22:17:14
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Dakka Veteran
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kodos wrote:there is a difference between people want to buy something new and people must buy something new
and if there are too many teams, nobody asked GW to make a new one every 2 months or a new Edition every 3 years
Yeah, so imagine GW came out and said "there's enough Kill Teams, we don't need to make any more, we're happy with the rules, keep playing what you have" ?
We'd have a far worse problem, because the game would be declared "dead" and people would moan that *all* of their Kill Teams were obsolete.
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2024/09/07 22:19:24
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Gert wrote:Good lord the need for drama for Warhammer players is beyond a joke. You act like GW has sent hitmen to your home to burn your older models.
God forbid you spend £40 on a Kill Team every four years.
FWIW I tend to agree.
I think every GW game has this weird cultural clash between people who buy models they'll use to play every week for say a summer. And people who are (theoretically) slowly accumulating stuff that they expect to use in the "big game", earmarked for sometime in the 2030s.
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2024/09/07 22:25:24
Subject: Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Dakka Veteran
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kodos wrote:
that GW is now confident enough to write this down and most people don't care is a reason why they are the market leader
if any other game company would make such an announcement they can close their doors the next day
Not really. LCGs and CCGs have had set rotation for decades. More broadly, in board games I can buy a game and whole bunch of expansions (often including minis that I paint up) and then one day they announce a second edition and nothing I have is compatible any more. Arkham Horror. Summoner Wars. Descent. It's something that happens in board games pretty regularly. Those companies don't end up closing their doors.
Plus you can't keep making rules for everything indefinitely. When does it stop? In 2030 they still have to make rules for minis that haven't been available for sale in over a decade? And the rules aren't exactly trivial, Kill Team rules are fairly complex. Could they make something up but not really test it or care about if it's playable? Sure, like Legends then?
I'd rather have rules for 30 teams at a time that were reasonably well balanced and tested than rules for 90 teams that they'd just crapped out because 40K players actually see that as acceptable.
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2024/09/07 23:49:49
Subject: Re:Kill Team 2024 News and Rumours
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Cackling Daemonic Dreadnought of Tzeentch
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Dudeface wrote:Are you expecting them to make casual only rules for 70+ Kill Teams, all with unique functions?
::Takes quick glance at 40k's Legends section::
Um, yes? Yes.
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