Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Latro_ wrote:

okie, struggling to work out then how you deployed the possessed 'and' the changeling 12.1" away?

Like I said, I daisy-chained them. The back edge of the main Possessed squad will be about 14" away from the enemy if I'm worried about Auspex Scan. The Changeling has a 9" aura. So I'd be getting his buff on the Possessed if he could be 23" away from the enemy. Now, that will rarely happen, but I get an extra 3" for every Possessed model that I remove from the main squad and put at max coherency trailing back to my deployment zone. I don't lose much by taking 3 models out of the 20 in the squad in order to get a 9" line back to The Changeling's aura. Likewise the Cultists can easily be set up so that 30+ of them are in easy charge range while the rest extend down one side of the board to screen and get buffs.

If I know I'm going first, I don't need to worry about having The Changeling in range on deployment, but I will want to Advance with him and my other non- deep striking buff characters. It seems to be clearly worth it to leave a line trailing back to be in range of re-roll characters even at the cost of having fewer models actually able to attack the enemy, especially for the Cultists, unless perhaps I roll such a great charge that I can move deep into enemy lines and tie up virtually everything.

Question: now that the Codex is out, do army specific rules still apply?

For instance, if I am running a World Eaters army, do all models still have to take Mark of Khorne? Would Daemon Princes in an Emperor's Children army still need to take MoS?

 techsoldaten wrote:
Question: now that the Codex is out, do army specific rules still apply?

For instance, if I am running a World Eaters army, do all models still have to take Mark of Khorne? Would Daemon Princes in an Emperor's Children army still need to take MoS?

The index rules do not apply, but there are similar restrictions in the codex

 techsoldaten wrote:
Question: now that the Codex is out, do army specific rules still apply?

For instance, if I am running a World Eaters army, do all models still have to take Mark of Khorne? Would Daemon Princes in an Emperor's Children army still need to take MoS?

If you are able to, you must take Mark of Khorne in a WE detachment.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Actually, if Abbadon is gonna sit in the back field with them just to provide rerolls. I would suggest you go world eaters and just use Kharn along with world eaters defilers. Kharn is cheaper than Abbadon, just as fierce on the counter charge, and Kharn also can provide rerolls to hit for your defilers.

Well,
A: My models are painted Black Legion.
B: Kharn only has a 1" bubble limiting flexibility and the ability to buff the rest of the firebase.
C: Abaddon gives immunity to morale to my other CSMs (or defensive Cultists if I paint them up. )
D: he gives bonus command points now.
E: If I want to play more aggressively, he. Can teleport with my Terminators while Defilers advance up the table.
And finally F: It would be embarrassing to use Kharn as a backfield babysitter!

 techsoldaten wrote:
Question: now that the Codex is out, do army specific rules still apply?

For instance, if I am running a World Eaters army, do all models still have to take Mark of Khorne? Would Daemon Princes in an Emperor's Children army still need to take MoS?

World Eaters must take the mark of Khorne, Emperor's Children must take the Mark of Slaanesh.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
In response to the conversation about Defilers a page or two earlier, Ive been running 3 of them alongside Abaddon and they've been pretty baller. They're togher than one would think, and theyre a hilarious respone to deep strikers. Otherwise they bombard stuff with their general purpose Battle Cannons and reapers for fire support.

And people gasp at the strength 16, which is fun.

Two of them have the twin Heavy Flamer option, just because thats whats painted. The scourge might be smarter, but having the auto hit flamers when he would otherwise be hitting on 5s or 6s at low wounds has been remarkably helpful.

Actually, how are they a hilarious response to deepstrikers? Because of their twin heavy flamers? Still doesn't prevent say a host of scions who just want to jump strike in and unleash all their plasma or meltas.

Because they assault and mash things, and have a variety of weapons. They actually do ok taking plasma with the invuln and 14 wounds too. They are big and brutish and fun. Three of them together helps optimize reponses, firing Autocannons at one target, Battlecannons at another, Heavy Flamers and Assaulting a third.

At range they dont have to move, and get the rerolls from Abaddon. If the enemy gets close they react and pound stuff. The dual role sets them apart from most other chaos vehicles, and youre not locked into a strategy with them.

Re deep strikers - if you've got a Cultist or brimstone screen 3.1" away from your firebase, deepstrikers aren't going to do anything with their melta and their plasma will be halved in effectiveness. So they land, scratch some paint or overkill some Cannon fodder, and then they get double-Flamered and S16'd by Oscar the Grouch's final form.

melbards wrote:
Hi,

Just starting out an EC army and was looking for advice if this loadout made sense:

5 TERMINATORS
3 storm bolters + Lightning claws
1 Heavy flamer + lightning claws
Champion with melta gun + powerfist
Icon of excess

They will arrive from DS with a Sorcerer in terminator armor w/ force stave and some kind of combi weapon and use warptime and preciense on them.

this is my logic:
Warptime will close the distance.
In the shooting phase I unload 12 bolter shots and 1 melta shot and hopefully in range of heavy flamer. This might strip away some chaff and/or weaken a unit before charging.
The average terminator will have 2x S4 attacks, against imperium a 5+ to hit (4+ if preciense goes off) gains me an extra attack. In addition re-rolling wounds because of LCs.
The champ is there to help deal with vehicles and multi-wound targets with the melta and powerfist.

the sorcerer will likely be in the open after his termy bodyguard gets warptimed and charges, although with good positioning this may not be a problem.

I am thinking maybe dual claws would be better? an extra attack in CC and the fact that all of that shooting might make the charge harder to make because of enemy casualties. However this would result in loss of flexibility.
Also would a reaper cannon be better than a heavy flamer? If warptime fails, the heavy flamer will not be in range after the DS. But my logic here is that the terminators will be in constant movement and the HEAVY profile of the reaper would not be ideal (-1 to hit).

Any advise from more experienced players would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

IMO a jump pack sorcere would do better because it has way more mobility once it comes on the board. If you are going slaanesh, you may want to consider combi-plasmas with the shoot twice strategy. I personally have been using chosen for this rile, but terminators can do it to for a cost. I dont think terminators are great for pure CC, so I wouldnt go dual LC. Some one mentioned earlier that they were using a detachment of renegade possessed as their CC guys in an EC army and that seems solid.

 lindsay40k wrote:

Spoiler:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
In response to the conversation about Defilers a page or two earlier, Ive been running 3 of them alongside Abaddon and they've been pretty baller. They're togher than one would think, and theyre a hilarious respone to deep strikers. Otherwise they bombard stuff with their general purpose Battle Cannons and reapers for fire support.

And people gasp at the strength 16, which is fun.

Two of them have the twin Heavy Flamer option, just because thats whats painted. The scourge might be smarter, but having the auto hit flamers when he would otherwise be hitting on 5s or 6s at low wounds has been remarkably helpful.

Actually, how are they a hilarious response to deepstrikers? Because of their twin heavy flamers? Still doesn't prevent say a host of scions who just want to jump strike in and unleash all their plasma or meltas.

Because they assault and mash things, and have a variety of weapons. They actually do ok taking plasma with the invuln and 14 wounds too. They are big and brutish and fun. Three of them together helps optimize reponses, firing Autocannons at one target, Battlecannons at another, Heavy Flamers and Assaulting a third.

At range they dont have to move, and get the rerolls from Abaddon. If the enemy gets close they react and pound stuff. The dual role sets them apart from most other chaos vehicles, and youre not locked into a strategy with them.

Re deep strikers - if you've got a Cultist or brimstone screen 3.1" away from your firebase, deepstrikers aren't going to do anything with their melta and their plasma will be halved in effectiveness. So they land, scratch some paint or overkill some Cannon fodder, and then they get double-Flamered and S16'd by Oscar the Grouch's final form.

True that, but it would require me to paint cultists. . . waaaahh.

^^ Slaaneshi Terminators with Prescience absolutely rock with combi-plasma. I agree that the Reaper is somewhat underwhelming compared with the Heavy Flamer, or even with another combi-plasma.

Likewise, term Sorcerer is ok if that's the model you've got but jump pack seems a lot more versatile. Especially for a sorcerer who's got buff spells. I have a term Sorcerer and his main purpose is to do some of what you're doing, hopefully landing in a Ruin, and then take advantage of his extra wound to be a deep insertion Summoner whilst having a 0+ save.

No one talk about the 50% from your Army You have to deploy, You dont think That they dont count has behing one the bord with the alpha légion stratagem?

The alpha strike thing has a lot of parts that are up for debate, it really needs an FAQ

So.

How are people enjoying the changes?

I'm disappointed I cant run a Death Guard Battalion with an Alpha Legion Spearhead.
Would love those Alpha Legion Obliterators!

DG will be getting a whole codex for themselves so dont feel too left out lol. I think chaos is in a pretty good spot right now with most things being usable and quite a few competitive options.

taetrius67 wrote:
No one talk about the 50% from your Army You have to deploy, You dont think That they dont count has behing one the bord with the alpha légion stratagem?

They are not placed on the board during Deployment - they are Deployed in Concealment. They are placed on the board after Deployment has finished and so do not count towards the 50% on the table, any more than an Eversor who is deployed in Concealment and arrives in the first movement phase.

mcsheehy wrote:
So.

How are people enjoying the changes?

I'm disappointed I cant run a Death Guard Battalion with an Alpha Legion Spearhead.
Would love those Alpha Legion Obliterators!

.. there is nothing stopping you doing that?

@Captyn,

Thank you for saying that.

It made me re-read the rule. I thought I read someone only Patrol,Battalion and Brigade got the traits!

You made my day <3

IMO a jump pack sorcere would do better because it has way more mobility once it comes on the board. If you are going slaanesh, you may want to consider combi-plasmas with the shoot twice strategy. I personally have been using chosen for this rile, but terminators can do it to for a cost. I dont think terminators are great for pure CC, so I wouldnt go dual LC. Some one mentioned earlier that they were using a detachment of renegade possessed as their CC guys in an EC army and that seems solid.

Thanks for the advice. While I do agree that a sorcerer with jump pack would add alot of mobility, I was actually planning on using a jump pack lord with 5 raptors. the reason being, the raptors are going to be my plasma delivery option (2 plasma guns and champ with dual plasma pistol) the jump pack lord with DS with them with a combi-plasma and will let them re-roll 1's for overcharge.

I feel as though a sorcerer wih termies would be ideal because warptime will help with their low mobility after DS (as well as getting the iniatial charge in) Also, Prescience combos very well with DTTFE and icon of excess versus Imperial armies (more than half the armies in reality)

I am in the opionion that EC termies can be a decent CC unit. The EC legion trait makes them always strike first and the icon of excess could be put to good use against most armies out there. There are also useful stratagems for EC CC units such as Excess of violence. Also You make a good point about dual LCs, as it would lower their flexibility and make them one trick ponies. Possesed aren't really an option for me, I do not like the models and they aren't very fluffy for a EC army

^^ Slaaneshi Terminators with Prescience absolutely rock with combi-plasma. I agree that the Reaper is somewhat underwhelming compared with the Heavy Flamer, or even with another combi-plasma.

Likewise, term Sorcerer is ok if that's the model you've got but jump pack seems a lot more versatile. Especially for a sorcerer who's got buff spells. I have a term Sorcerer and his main purpose is to do some of what you're doing, hopefully landing in a Ruin, and then take advantage of his extra wound to be a deep insertion Summoner whilst having a 0+ save. .

I decided against combi-plasma on termies because the unit was getting close to 300pts and the fact that I had no CC unit to speak of. In addition a lord would need to be with them for overcharge. I feel as though a sorcerer could help them out more because of warp time to improve their post-DS mobility issues. So I decided to put the DS plasma delivery option on raptors with a jump pack lord. Its slightly less OP but more mobile after the initial drop and costs about half the price of termies. The Sbolter/ lightning claw with a few added goodies (PF, HFlam, Combi-melta and Icon) is 251pts.

Good idea about dropping in ruins for added protection. I have yet to play a game but positioning seems to be a big part of getting gud in 8th.

Thanks for the input guys.

I was trying to decide between Slaanesh Terminators or Obliterators to serve as a Chaos Scion drop. The average Obliterator shot is a lot like an overcharged plasma shot, and they get a lot more shots per point than the Terminators. But the Terminators can have a much bigger squad to take advantage of the relevant stratagems.

I think I'm going to try the Obliterators first because of their range advantage. The Terminators probably aren't worth it unless you really need the reliable 2 damage or have at least 7 or 8 of them, and with that many I think you'd often run out of things worth shooting at within 12". Plus it's much harder to screen the Obliterators.

The only reason I am not going hard at Obliterators and ordering like nine... is the fact that their models are HORRIBLE. :-p

Someone linked me to 3rd party "definitely not Obliterators" a couple months back that were gorgeous, but very pricey... once I can justify those, i'll be testing them extensively.

But man... Terminators do one fun thing Scions don't (albeit for much higher cost)... they don't immediately commit suicide by dropping in. :-p Just knowing I can theoretically earn their points back in one turn of buffed double-shooting, and still be on the table to some degree the following turn, is awesome.

@melbards I like all of what you're saying, the lord with raptors should work great. I still would give the sorcerer a jump pack and send him with the terminators all the same, but thats me. Andbits not that i dont think the terminators are bad at cc, but they're not worth their cost unless they can do both.

Im using slaanesh chosen with combi-plasmas, but I'm trying to decided if I should give the 6th guy a plasma gun or a heavy weapon (probably a HB). They will be infiltrating.

I like the Tzeentch Possessed idea.

So has anyone run defilers since the codex? With the point drop they seem fantastic. Especially with WE tactics. Getting 5 S16 and 3 s12 attacks on the charge, coupled with the battle canon, reaper/ twin HB and a Combi-flamer for under 200 seems fantastic. Coupled with t8, 14 wounds and 3+5++ I might actually get a second and run them along side a jugger lord/herald.

StarHunter25 wrote:
So has anyone run defilers since the codex? With the point drop they seem fantastic. Especially with WE tactics. Getting 5 S16 and 3 s12 attacks on the charge, coupled with the battle canon, reaper/ twin HB and a Combi-flamer for under 200 seems fantastic. Coupled with t8, 14 wounds and 3+5++ I might actually get a second and run them along side a jugger lord/herald.

The defiler doesn't get access to any of the Legion traits.

Also, BS/WS4+ - it kills the defiler in my eyes.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
The only reason I am not going hard at Obliterators and ordering like nine... is the fact that their models are HORRIBLE. :-p

Someone linked me to 3rd party "definitely not Obliterators" a couple months back that were gorgeous, but very pricey... once I can justify those, i'll be testing them extensively.

But man... Terminators do one fun thing Scions don't (albeit for much higher cost)... they don't immediately commit suicide by dropping in. :-p Just knowing I can theoretically earn their points back in one turn of buffed double-shooting, and still be on the table to some degree the following turn, is awesome.

I'm planning to stick random weapons on Centurions to represent them (so one Grav, Heavy Bolter, Hurricane, ML), but at least slightly orderly, so that's an option for you as well.

StarHunter25 wrote:
So has anyone run defilers since the codex? With the point drop they seem fantastic. Especially with WE tactics. Getting 5 S16 and 3 s12 attacks on the charge, coupled with the battle canon, reaper/ twin HB and a Combi-flamer for under 200 seems fantastic. Coupled with t8, 14 wounds and 3+5++ I might actually get a second and run them along side a jugger lord/herald.

A few of my posts just prior are about Defilers, and I enjoy them quite a bit. Theyre multipurpose and tough. I'm currently taking 3

Are they T 8 now though? Theyre 7 iirc. Don't have the codex on me.

T7 in the index, don't think it has changed.

Just a report from the front.

I am now 9-0 with my Chaos Marines and get this: I'm using as DEFILER. Yes. i said it. a DEFILER. I haven't even gotten a game in yet with the new Strategem for Daemonforges so yeah... I'm jazzed.

My Defiler Scourges helped the Defiler in the last game absolutely wallop some uppity Crisis Commanders who came to assassinate me along with their Crisis Team buddies. that was supremely satisfying. He ended the game having killed three commanders, a Crisis team, a Broadside down yonder way and a couple Drones. Kind of awesome.


.

How are people feeling about obliterator spam with the new codex? A spearhead with 6-9 oblits seems like a great add to most any army.

Deepstrike in with the MoS and double shoot to your hearts content. I'm liking alpha Legion for tactics as you can deepstrike 18-24" away for your guns to still work and be safer from return fire.

 buddha wrote:
How are people feeling about obliterator spam with the new codex? A spearhead with 6-9 oblits seems like a great add to most any army.

Deepstrike in with the MoS and double shoot to your hearts content. I'm liking alpha Legion for tactics as you can deepstrike 18-24" away for your guns to still work and be safer from return fire.

There are much better units to 2x shoot-strategem with than the Oblits, because iirc they only come in units of three, period. You'll get much more for your CP-buck using that on Slaanesh Terminators. That said, i'm looking at Obliterators as a pretty good option ONLY when they're getting a Changling buff + the Alpha Legion one, which means you'll absolutely want them dancing around their maximum range for as long as possible.

In this scenario, if you get first turn they're providing a lot of added value too, as they can be deployed at one of those "golden" ranges to deny deep-strike options. 18" up from your deployment means they'll have decent targets to shoot at, AND potentially (depending on the rest of your deployment), deny EVERYTHING behind them as a valid drop location.