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Unless the point change leaks are missing something, the standard space marine is dead. Chosen are 14pts while regular CSM are 13pts still. Intercessors are 17pts with a better gun and +1 wound.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 XT-1984 wrote:
So now Bloodletters aren't in CA anymore they are 10 points a model as per codex??

Nice catch!

Further proof that something is off here.

We don't know what, we don't know why, but SOMETHING is wrong.

Wtf guys, Bloodletters are 7 points in the codex, so everything is fine there. I dont get why they printed Crushers with the same 47 as in the codex.

Chaos Terminators paying 5 points for the ability to buy full combiplas and shoot twice probably...

basic loyalist termies have drastically worse wargear options.

the_scotsman wrote:
Chaos Terminators paying 5 points for the ability to buy full combiplas and shoot twice probably...

basic loyalist termies have drastically worse wargear options.

Thats kind of wierd, tit for tat, PW + Combi Bolter, or PF + Storm bolter... is equal?
Paying a head of time, for a unit that could possible take XYZ... really is off. You would just make XYZ more, and not punish the person who wants to play CSM Termies with Combi bolters / PS.

Maybe it is all true, as I said. Its still a reduction for Combiplas/Power Axe CSM Termies. Still good point reductions for Deamon units I use/like. And Tau did not get shafted as far as points going up.

3 for 3.

Cinderspirit wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 XT-1984 wrote:
So now Bloodletters aren't in CA anymore they are 10 points a model as per codex??

Nice catch!

Further proof that something is off here.

We don't know what, we don't know why, but SOMETHING is wrong.

Wtf guys, Bloodletters are 7 points in the codex, so everything is fine there. I dont get why they printed Crushers with the same 47 as in the codex.

Ok, this was me jumping the gun and not confirming before writing.

Still saying something is off. the crushers alone is enough to show that at some level something is odd.

Cinderspirit wrote:


Wtf guys, Bloodletters are 7 points in the codex, so everything is fine there. I dont get why they printed Crushers with the same 47 as in the codex.

Ah yeah I must be thinking of the Index. Shame

 BoomWolf wrote:

Cinderspirit wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 XT-1984 wrote:
So now Bloodletters aren't in CA anymore they are 10 points a model as per codex??

Nice catch!

Further proof that something is off here.

We don't know what, we don't know why, but SOMETHING is wrong.

Wtf guys, Bloodletters are 7 points in the codex, so everything is fine there. I dont get why they printed Crushers with the same 47 as in the codex.

Ok, this was me jumping the gun and not confirming before writing.

Still saying something is off. the crushers alone is enough to show that at some level something is odd.

As I said page back, some deception. GW confirmed 2 things, GK going down and big changes and a SoB index. No leaks have shown these 2 things, one of them is actually contradicted based off the leaks.
So while I hope the points reduction in most cases are true, there is something not shown or in the works for GK , at the very least I would gather.

Oh, hell's yeah. The upcoming weekend is going to be So great. So many shiny stuff is having their points dropping.

Well, for me atleast, I play
-tyranids
-astra militarum
-tau
-dark Angels

the_scotsman wrote:
Chaos Terminators paying 5 points for the ability to buy full combiplas and shoot twice probably...

basic loyalist termies have drastically worse wargear options.

Yeah, it looks like they want the end cost of both units to be roughly equal. Since most loyalist termies HAVE to buy Powerfist and can only get a whimpy storm bolter, it sorta makes sense. Especially if they wanted to drop the cost of Combi-weapons for all units, but keep Chaos termies a bit higher.
Still weird though.

-

No section for FW Knights either. They said the Mag was dropping 100 points, so that’s odd.

Wow.
Necron Triarch Stalker with Heat Ray dropped by 46 points...

Overall the last 1500 point list I ran dropped by 180 points.

Nothing about Drukhari either, no Taloi/Grotesque/Venom Nerf.
Thats quite absurd

Drukhari not chnaging makes perfect sense though, they are too new to be in CA.

 Galef wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Chaos Terminators paying 5 points for the ability to buy full combiplas and shoot twice probably...

basic loyalist termies have drastically worse wargear options.

Yeah, it looks like they want the end cost of both units to be roughly equal. Since most loyalist termies HAVE to buy Powerfist and can only get a whimpy storm bolter, it sorta makes sense. Especially if they wanted to drop the cost of Combi-weapons for all units, but keep Chaos termies a bit higher.
Still weird though.

-

You shouldn't have to PAY for opportunity though. That's the line of logic of Conscripts and Infantry being the same price, as you have an opportunity to make the squad size larger. That's just not how it should work.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Drukhari not chnaging makes perfect sense though, they are too new to be in CA.

Yeah, seems to be true.

Won´t play against them anymore in this case. The Combos and Units are way too strong to be handled.

Well, guess they thought of making the rest as powerful as Drukhari and not Drukhari weaker. Some units got massive point drops, so I can see a shift in power.

Rivener wrote:
No section for FW Knights either. They said the Mag was dropping 100 points, so that’s odd.

Is it that the page just hasn't been posted, or has it legit not been listed?

If the latter, we can conclude the leaks are fake. That definitely stirred up discussion though.

Tsilber wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Chaos Terminators paying 5 points for the ability to buy full combiplas and shoot twice probably...

basic loyalist termies have drastically worse wargear options.

Thats kind of wierd, tit for tat, PW + Combi Bolter, or PF + Storm bolter... is equal?
Paying a head of time, for a unit that could possible take XYZ... really is off. You would just make XYZ more, and not punish the person who wants to play CSM Termies with Combi bolters / PS.

Maybe it is all true, as I said. Its still a reduction for Combiplas/Power Axe CSM Termies. Still good point reductions for Deamon units I use/like. And Tau did not get shafted as far as points going up.

3 for 3.

That's true, but I'm just calling it as I see it here: There is a strong shooting combo that Chaos Terminators have that Loyalists dont and loyalists are locked into much more rigid weapon configurations: 1 special, 1 special melee, the rest fist/storm bolter.

That said, Deathwatch termies are going to be aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamazing. That is, if you're not already stuffed full of 14pt vets with 2 point storm shields and Intercessors that can be turned into Indomitus Veterans to spray out 4 hit on 3s wound on 2s rerolling AP-1 shots.

You do get some very weird stuff. Like the redemptor is a lot cheaper, which is nice. The heavy onslaught gatling cannon is also a bit cheaper, but not the plasma gun option. Why not, when in the rare cases anyone ever takes a redemptor it's always with the gatling gun?

One of the things I'm happiest about is a serious cut to the cost of crisis suits. I'll have to do some adding up later but it looks like those might now actually work. Big cuts to the cost of the guys themselves and their guns.

Another odd thing is having the cost of my Primaris captain cut by quite a lot. He's 92 points now with a plasma pistol and a power fist - upgraded to the fist of vengeance. That really is a bargain. I guess he's benefiting from cuts intended for other units, but that doesn't explain why the base model has come down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Chaos Terminators paying 5 points for the ability to buy full combiplas and shoot twice probably...

basic loyalist termies have drastically worse wargear options.

Thats kind of wierd, tit for tat, PW + Combi Bolter, or PF + Storm bolter... is equal?
Paying a head of time, for a unit that could possible take XYZ... really is off. You would just make XYZ more, and not punish the person who wants to play CSM Termies with Combi bolters / PS.

Maybe it is all true, as I said. Its still a reduction for Combiplas/Power Axe CSM Termies. Still good point reductions for Deamon units I use/like. And Tau did not get shafted as far as points going up.

3 for 3.

That's true, but I'm just calling it as I see it here: There is a strong shooting combo that Chaos Terminators have that Loyalists dont and loyalists are locked into much more rigid weapon configurations: 1 special, 1 special melee, the rest fist/storm bolter.

That said, Deathwatch termies are going to be aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamazing. That is, if you're not already stuffed full of 14pt vets with 2 point storm shields and Intercessors that can be turned into Indomitus Veterans to spray out 4 hit on 3s wound on 2s rerolling AP-1 shots.

I'm not sure whether deathwatch will be able to use that detachment. Definitely not saying that they can't, but it might be odd if they could. If they did, would it affect non-intercessors in intercessor squads?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Rivener wrote:
No section for FW Knights either. They said the Mag was dropping 100 points, so that’s odd.

Is it that the page just hasn't been posted, or has it legit not been listed?

If the latter, we can conclude the leaks are fake. That definitely stirred up discussion though.

Missing. The leaks jump from 136 to 138 and are also missing 139 (we know datasheets start at 140).

The fleshhounds pointscosts mentions gorehounds are a different pointscost. Did I miss something? What are gorehounds?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Rivener wrote:
No section for FW Knights either. They said the Mag was dropping 100 points, so that’s odd.

Is it that the page just hasn't been posted, or has it legit not been listed?

If the latter, we can conclude the leaks are fake. That definitely stirred up discussion though.

We're missing a lot of Forgeworld pages (I see 135, 136 and 138. We don't know what's on 137 or what's after 138)

We don't have a scan of the Indomitus Crusaders page, it's true, but the preview did say "Select one of your Space Marines detachments' which seems to indicate "adeptus astartes."

It would affect the Deathwatch unit "Intercessors Squad" and you would get the +1A and +1ld on any attached members as well, however since they don't have Bolt Rifles the stratagems would not work onthem.

Also, there seems to be no way to get the relic/warlord trait on the Deathwatch if they can take the detachment, because they have Primaris Watch Captains and not Primaris Captains. Space Wolves would have the same issue.

These are definitelly true. Everything matches the leak I posted except for guard going to 5. I think he misread veterans going to 5 lol

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
These are definitelly true. Everything matches the leak I posted except for guard going to 5. I think he misread veterans going to 5 lol

Wait so Vets went to 5?

Makes them more interesting, but as long as they aren't troops and Chimeras don't go down...I dunno.

Wow, really a lot of points dropped.

CSM got quite a lot of love. I am glad. A hellbrute is even cheaper now. Same goes for a Defiler. This is especially because a lot of our weapon options all went down in cost. A missile launcher, twin lascannon Hellbrute is now barely 120 points total. It used to cost 150 points.

A defiler with scourge and reaper autocannon is now just under 150 points! @_@

Even forgefiends got love. Autocannon Forgefiend is now 148 points. It used to cost 177 points!

Chosen at 14 points is like crazy. They are barely 1 point more than normal troop CSM, but with so much better weapon options and 2 attacks base.

And CSM's cheapest HQ is now the warpsmith. Even with all of his gear, he costs only 60 points.

Combi plasma are the same price as plasma guns - 11. Wow, so ,this means that a chaos termi with combi plasma and power sword is only 28+11+4 = 43 points.

btw, so many named HQs went down in price., Kharn used to be 160, and now he is just 120!

My only gripe is I have the lord of skulls model. How come his points wasn't adjusted down. When you have a mighty castellan at just 600 points with the firepower it has, and a 4++ save, why should a lord of skulls with less firepower and a 5++ save be more expensive...

 Redemption wrote:
The fleshhounds pointscosts mentions gorehounds are a different pointscost. Did I miss something? What are gorehounds?

Probably a new unit, from wrath & Rupture box set?

 BoomWolf wrote:
Drukhari not chnaging makes perfect sense though, they are too new to be in CA.

Their Codex came out eight months ago...? That doesn't seem especially recent, especially when factions released after them like Space Wolves and Deathwatch have gotten plenty of changes.

 Danarc wrote:
Unchanged PAGK and GK termy at 39 points. It was beautiful GW. feth you.

here other changes

Apothecary - 75
BroCap - 110
BroAnc - 90
BroChamp - 90
Chappy - 105
Dread - 150
GM - 130
GMNDK - 170
Interceptors - 21
LR - 200
LRC - 200
LRR - 180
Libby - 113
PallyAnc - 98
Pallies - 47
Puries - 19
Razor - 70
Servitors - 5
SR - 192
TechMarine - 55
Termies - 39
VenDread - 85

Stern - 105
Crowe - 80
Voldus - 153
Draigo - 180

H,Incinerator - 19
H. Psycannon - 24
Incinerator - 9
Psycannon - 7 (11 for termies)
Psilencer for Termies - 8
Incinerator for termies - 13
Twinlas - 40
Twin MM - 40
Typhoon - 38
ML - 20

Could someone tell me the actual point differences for Grey Knights now? My roommate who plays them will want to know. Thanks!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
...and Chimeras don't go down...I dunno.

15 pts. Multilaser dropped 5 too, and h.flamer 3.

So 73 for cheapest Chimera.