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There's a thread about Pie Plates in (I believe) the Tactics section and I was thinking that Imperial Guard could really use 4 Heavy Support choices in 2000 but still be limited to 3 in 1500. 

Now if you want to look at Imperial Guard only, they are different because every other army if they want to add 500 points onto 1500 all they have to do is add a tricked out HQ, an Elites or Fast Attack and maybe trick out a squad they already have.  Imperial Guard don't really have that option, and are stuck adding Infantry, Chimeras and maybe some supporting Elites units.

So this is my proposed Force Org Chart, points dependent.

HQ
1 per 750 points, max of 2.  Space Wolves still get their bonus HQs.  Any retinues are considered the same selection as the HQ choice.

Elite
1 per 2 Troop choices.

Troop
2+.  Maximums:  4 in <= 1000.  6 in 1500  8 in 2000.

Fast Attack
2 in 1000.  3 in 1500.  4 in 2000.

Heavy Support
2 in 1000.  3 in 1500. 4 in 2000.

So in 1000 points you could have 2 Heavy Support, 2 Fast Attack, 4 Troop, 2 Elite and an HQ.  This should give you plenty of space to both fill your points and customize your army.

I know it sounds obvious, but the game really is meant to be played at 1500.

Off the top of my head here are some complications/thoughts.

"Falcdar":  4 Harlie and 4 Falcons in 2000.  There would also be 8 Troop choices.  4 Tricked out Falcons, 4 6 man Squads of Harlies and 8 6 man squads of Dire Avengers comes to 1916.  You could fit it in.  If you want to be a nub.

"Nidzilla":  3 PS/WB Thropes, 3 BS/VC Carnis, 4 2x TL Dev Carnis, 8 10 'man' squads of Termagaunts and one Uber Flyrant come in at about 1950.  I gave the Carnis an extra wound.

The Nidzilla is a bit much, maybe all that is needed is an extra Fast Attack and Heavy Support in 2000.

Personally, my interest has been shifting towards vehicles from troops and I find in 2000 there is just not enough space for all the fun stuff, unless you want to run with six Razorbacks.

I like the sliding scale for maximums vs point values. It really lets games be played at all point levels where as the standard force org lets some stupid broken gak happen at 500 points and forces armies with crapy troops to take really lame choices at 2000+ points. I'm also a fan of elite choices being based on the number of troop choices you have but putting them on a sliding scale would be just as good.

One major difference I would throw in would be for troops. I think that there should be a sliding minimum for the number of troop choices you take. So something like 2+ at 1000 points, 3+ at 1500, +4 at 2000, etc. In general though, I wouldn?t put a maximum on troops. If players want to load out their selections on troops, more power to them.

?mmmmm 2000 points of nothing but IG Infantry Platoons... Comon, who could beat that?

2000 points of mech eldar. Only your heavy weapons will do any good and without a leadership bubble you are going to get tank shocked off the board fairly quickly by 10ish wave serpents.

Yeah, I definately think you need maximums on Troop choices. But I like the addition of an increase on mandatory Troop choices.

what your talking about is a fantasy force org chart with 500pt incriments insted of 1000..... but i like the idea for sure cause ive had those times where there is nothing to fill that 500 pts with or whatever....

i like the elite hq fast and heavy but i dont like the  4+ troops at 2k because thats a beating for armys like necrons, your talking  18pts x 10 guys x 4 troop choices = 720 pts for just the bare minimum and in an army where verything is expensive there leaves no room for fun. plus id bet you get alot more people paying smaller squads to get around it.

id suggest going with 3+ troops at 2k to be fair all around

ohh the only thing i can think of about the elites is eldar... umm thats all there strength....

The Fantasy force org is far superior to 40ks, IMO.

I really wish they would scrap the current system and start over with FB as the basis. The current system just leads to way too much abuse.

We gave up on the FOC when it came to Tyranids in our rules, instead deciding to base the Tyranid army around HQ choices (ie. Leader Beasts).

We divided everything up into three categories:

Leader Beasts:

• Tyrants
• Broodlords
• Zoanthropes
• Tyranid Warriors
  

Broods

• T-Gaunts
• H-Gaunts
• Gargoyles
• Raveners
• Rippers
• Genestealers

Autonomous Creatures

• Carnifexes
• Lictors
• Biovores
• Tyranid Warriors

The first Leader Creature you took gave you 4 Brood Slots and 2 Autonomous Creature slots. The first two Brood Slots were compulsory. Second Leader Creature gave you two more Brood slots and 2 more Autonomous Creature slot, although the first of those two Brood slots was also compulsory.

Full army list would be 4 Leader Creature slots, 10 Brood slots (of which 5 would be compulsory) and 8 Autonomous Creature slots.

Some things take up more than one slot. Raveners, for example, take up two Brood Slots, and a fully upgraded Carnifex (T8 in our rules), takes up two Autonomous Creature slots.

It's a nice system that works quite well for Tyranids, although I don't know how a scaling system like that would work with other armies. Only Guard and maybe Tau, in my mind, could benefit from a different FOC. The current one works well for other armies in most cases.

BYE

The thing is that the current one only works well at 1500-1850 point range. In a 500 point eldar army I can take a farseer, 2 guardian squads, and a falcon. Not exactly a balanced force at that point level. 750 brings it up to 2 falcons. At high point values 2000+ armies start running out of slots on the chart. If you are playing with lot so units that are not very expensive (foot slogging orcs or dark eldar, guardian squads, hell hounds, land speeders, gargoyles, dreadnaughts, ect) you end up not being able to use all your points because you can't pack in enough points into the slots you are using. This leads you to either play with an under pointed army or take units from other sections of the army that you don't want to.

The sliding scale, similar to the fantasy system, is a much better way to go about things. It ensures that things work out a lot better all the way round.

I was thinking that it would be cool if 40k had a lord/heroes dynamic like fantasy does, but I guess Special Characters fill that niche, taking an HQ spot but only being allowed in larger games.

OK so what about introducing a Fantasy Org Chart to 40k. Here's the Space Marine List. HQ along the same lines as Fantasy.

Troop (Core)
Tactical/Combat Squads
Command Squads

Elite (Special)
Command Squads with a veteran skill
Veteran Squads
Assault Squads
Devastator Squads
Bike Squads
Predator Destructor

Support (Rare)
Assault, Bike and Devastator squads with a veteran skill
Predator Annhilator
Land Raiders
Vindicators
Terminators (including Terminator command)
Super Heavies
I don't think Special Characters should take up a Rare, they aren't the 350 to 650 point monsters that they are in Fantasy.

Different lists could play around with this. Armies would be different, Guard for example could have things like Russ tanks are special and Hellhounds are Rare.

From a fluff perspective, it's possible that the 40k Org Chart is better.

The titles don't work for a number of armies.

Take Guard for example, and ignore game balance for a second:

Leman Russes are neither special nor rare. They would be as much a core unit as Infantry Platoons. Ratlings would be Special. Vanquishers would be Rare. Units like Russes just don't fit this system.

BYE

There's no reason russes couldn't be core though. It'd just be like taking all wolfriders for core in orcs and goblins so you can have an all cavalry force.

I like the "feel" of the current one; it fits more with the shooty theme of 40k. I guess that depending on what army you choose you should have different numbers of each choice. And why should Khorne still have 3 heavies?

It looks like we're leaning towards each army having it's own organizational chart.

I was thinking that as far as the Russes are concerned, in Guard armies they could be tied to Infantry Platoons, with some kind of sliding points scale. So the whole army could be organized around the platoon system, say 1 per 750, 2 per 1500 and in 2000 there is a Command Squad as well. So if Russes are 0-2 you could take 4 in 1500 or 2000 and 2 in 750 or 1000. In 2000 you're getting into larger games and that's when more support tied to Command Squads comes into it.

As for Khorne, it's not that Khorne need 3 heavies, it's that Khorne needs more things to TAKE as heavies! . Khorne is the mother f-ing war god he should have a whole army of rampaging heavy support.

And just a comment regarding infantry vs Russes and Orcs and Goblins vs Wolfriders. Wolfriders are more analogous to taking Jump Pack Marines as Troop rather than taking AV 14 vehicles as troop. The armoured company list is nothing but Russes but there are artificial point sinks/victory points sunk into certain tanks to make it more fair for an opponent. It's not the same as just plunking down 10x 150 point Russes and calling it a 1500 point game. It comes out to more like 7 or 8, and if you can kill the command tanks you're a long way towards victory.

Khorne should be shooty as well as stabby. Khorne cares not how the blood flows, so long as it flows.

Exactly, Boss; Khorne should be the consumate master of combat, not the master of 'RAR! CUT HEADZ OFF! RAR!'.

BYE