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Hey iam new to warmachine, having got hooked by some friends, i havent got the book yet but iam going with a list my friend made for me just wanted some input from people on here.

Haley

2 lancers

1 thunderhead

1 journeyman

6 trenchers + trencher chain gun

it should be 500pts,

whats everyone think ?

Well, I hate thunderheads...

is that in a you hate to play against them because they are nasty, or in a they are completely rubbish rules wise way

Haley ::  Fine shes easy to use and a good caster to learn with

2 lancers :: not bad and will work ok with haley, might swap one for a grenadier to work with the trenchers

1 thunderhead ::  ugh, for the cost  a centurian, and a gun mage captain adept, or even better  2 bokur, eyriss, and a grenadier,  basicly what it comes down to is its to many points for jack that  can't perform up to snuff. if you want a heavy jack the Centurian is the way to go, it really is most likely the best heavy in the game, followed  by the crusader and nomad ( mainly since both are under costed).  If your after counter attack hitting power the Bokurs are the way to go they will do more dmg by far than any heavy, and will take it like a light for  under 40 points each.

1 journeyman :: this is fine he is almost as required as a real caster

6 trenchers + trencher chain gun, ::might drop the chain gun for 2 or 3 more trenchers

 

The reason you see the grenadier come up a couple times is due to the fact the Journeyman can run it very well and it throws 3 3inch aoes a turn if its next to some trenchers.

 

I largely agree with Narlix, though I think the Chain Gun is well worth it now with the revision in Remix. And the model's cool, which helps.

I have to disagree with the Thunderhead. Awesome against infantry swarms, and with a bit of focus its an excellent caster kill (hit him once with his beam , and you get two guaranteed extra hits.)

Posted By Calle on 08/28/2007 7:16 AM
I have to disagree with the Thunderhead. Awesome against infantry swarms, and with a bit of focus its an excellent caster kill (hit him once with his beam , and you get two guaranteed extra hits.)

 

It will never get close enough to a "swarm of Infantry" to make full use of the the purge effect.  It has worse armor that the centy, it can be chraged, it doesn't have reach, it needs 2 or 3 focus a turn to make it work, it has a rat of 4  it still has to roll to hit with the purge effect, average infantry def is 13  so you have to roll 9 on  2d6. 

for the points you can get 2 grenadires, a bokur, and eyris. for 0 focus a turn the grenadires can toss 6 3 inch aoes, which don;t really need to hit. the bokur can slam, gets d3 attacks and hits harder than the thunder head, and the elf disrupts not just jacks but casters also. all of that and its 4 targets no just one with a blah def and armor.

If you want to really look at it you could get a full unit of long gunners with attackment, and a min unit of trenchers with weapon attachment, for the price you pay for the Thunderhead. That one unit of long gunners will kill more infantry a turn than the jack will in the entire game.

Posted By Narlix on 08/28/2007 11:56 AM

Posted By Calle on 08/28/2007 7:16 AM
I have to disagree with the Thunderhead. Awesome against infantry swarms, and with a bit of focus its an excellent caster kill (hit him once with his beam , and you get two guaranteed extra hits.)

 

It will never get close enough to a "swarm of Infantry" to make full use of the the purge effect.  It has worse armor that the centy, it can be chraged, it doesn't have reach, it needs 2 or 3 focus a turn to make it work, it has a rat of 4  it still has to roll to hit with the purge effect, average infantry def is 13  so you have to roll 9 on  2d6. 

for the points you can get 2 grenadires, a bokur, and eyris. for 0 focus a turn the grenadires can toss 6 3 inch aoes, which don;t really need to hit. the bokur can slam, gets d3 attacks and hits harder than the thunder head, and the elf disrupts not just jacks but casters also. all of that and its 4 targets no just one with a blah def and armor.

If you want to really look at it you could get a full unit of long gunners with attackment, and a min unit of trenchers with weapon attachment, for the price you pay for the Thunderhead. That one unit of long gunners will kill more infantry a turn than the jack will in the entire game.

Guess you will have to play me once then ;-) . Anyway, combined arms dammit, no jack ever works on its own. There is always a warcaster with some special stuff to help the jacks, and the Thunderhead is just brilliant with most warcasters.

But hey, I play a Darius army where the Thunderhead ALWAYS kills the enemy warcaster.

Posted By Calle on 08/29/2007 4:12 AM

guess you will have to play me once then ;-) . Anyway, combined arms dammit, no jack ever works on its own. There is always a warcaster with some special stuff to help the jacks, and the Thunderhead is just brilliant with most warcasters.

But hey, I play a Darius army where the Thunderhead ALWAYS kills the enemy warcaster.

See Darius changes things a bit =P.   He can make even a charger ok.  point it your average caster does not have the focus to run a focus hog jack like a thunderhead. Basicly full throttle give each jack between 2 and 4 focus plus what ever focuse you actually do give them. My question to you is this though why run a thunderhead, even if your playing 750 points 5 centy's will perform better along with the couple lights you bring and jr?, i mean a thunderhead is basicly a centy and a hunter.

Posted By Narlix on 08/29/2007 12:58 PM

Posted By Calle on 08/29/2007 4:12 AM

guess you will have to play me once then ;-) . Anyway, combined arms dammit, no jack ever works on its own. There is always a warcaster with some special stuff to help the jacks, and the Thunderhead is just brilliant with most warcasters.

But hey, I play a Darius army where the Thunderhead ALWAYS kills the enemy warcaster.

See Darius changes things a bit =P.   He can make even a charger ok.  point it your average caster does not have the focus to run a focus hog jack like a thunderhead. Basicly full throttle give each jack between 2 and 4 focus plus what ever focuse you actually do give them. My question to you is this though why run a thunderhead, even if your playing 750 points 5 centy's will perform better along with the couple lights you bring and jr?, i mean a thunderhead is basicly a centy and a hunter.

Not only with Darius though. Haley's TB (much easier to hit with less defense right ?) , nemo and his 5 focus to a jack, Stryker with his earthquake after which the Thunderhead is guaranteed to hit 3 times ... Snipe, whatever.With Darius , you have seen the crane maneuver right ? Well, with the Thunderhead I got a threat range that is substantially larger for the caster kill then with a Centurion. It makes people think , and if they make one mistake they loose.

Btw, I use cent in that army too, and a hammersmith *gasp*. I only have a couple of inf models. Trenchers , 3 stormsmiths and the gmc. All jacks apart from that.

Posted By Calle on 08/30/2007 5:42 AM

Posted By Narlix on 08/29/2007 12:58 PM

Posted By Calle on 08/29/2007 4:12 AM

.... , you have seen the crane maneuver right ? Well, with the Thunderhead I got a threat range that is substantially larger for the caster kill then with a Centurion. .....

All the time. The best part of the crane though is it says model not jack,   Darus swinging a bokur  5 inches forward, followed by the thing chargeing is normally a game winner,  2 pole axe attacks and a shield on average,   power 15 with 4d6 on the first attack   3d6 to hit with a mat of 6.

And why a hammersmith? I really am kinda curious about this one, never seen it fielded and on paper it looks kinda blah but i might of missed something.

Reason I use the hammersmith is the amount of attacks it can generate with that spell of Darius (dont have book with me atm, sorry) and the fact that I can use it to set up a charge lane for a caster kill. The beatback is pretty interesting for that.

The spell is Jackhammer, as it generates two medium-strong attacks on the Hammersmith
vs. the Centurions Ugly strong/strong-weak chance of generating extra attacks.

I'd consider dropping a Lancer and Chain gun for Long Gunners. They are awesome with Haley. The Thunderhead is a beast, but Haley may not be the best caster for it, however I think she is more then good enough. With temporal barrier the Thunder Heads mat of 4 is much less of an issue (-3 defense to targets in the TB), so the TH now needs a 6 to hit Def 13 infantry, so the Pulse can wreck a hordak army. You need Trenchers for smoke, one lancer for arc noding, and a Jack for melee and holding ground. I think you need the Long gunners for Damage output.

As for the Centurion, It's an outstanding Jack, but it's too defensive for this list, you need some way to attack your opponent, and the thunder head does a better job of that (IMHO).

Bokurs are cool, but I find them difficult to use and easy to neutralize. There dependence on their Client is a big liability in my eyes, but that’s why they are so cheap.

If you really want to make this list fun and play like you have a pair, drop the trenchers for Sword knights or Storm Guard (Storm Guard have reach which makes them better, here). With Haley’s Feat and Temporal Barrier, your melee based units are amazing, as they don’t fear charges and attack everything at Def -3. Just try and keep using the long gunners to threaten your opponent.  

I must say, I do like my sword knights. Only used 'em once, but they are tough as nails; took 2 1/2 jacks down with 'em. Not representative, I know, but they're a lot of fun.

Long Gunners are nice, but are as much about psychology of the game (as ninja said, threatening the opponent) as actually shooting things.

The reason I hate the T-head has a lot to do with Darius. Personally, I like the Ironclad and the Defender, but I'm old School that way.

If you like jacks... and are into Haley, here's a list I won with against Minoth just the other night...

Haley
3x Defenders
Lancer

The Lancer was there in case he got close enough to the truckloads of troops my opponent fielded. He thought it would be cute to field almost an entire army of AoE attacking models.

My losses? The Lancer was shut down, but not destroyed...

His? Two thirds of one of his ballista units, and his caster. There is a reason that Cygnar are known to be very surgical when it comes to their tactics. And also, I didn't even once make a melee attack. Just enjoyed my 16" of range with the Defenders, maneuvered the group AS a group, and blew snot out of Kreoss...

Nice threadomancy, CR.

Nothing but the truth, my friend... nothing but the truth.