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I choose to interpret "Post Apocalyptic Hazmat Tean" as a typo of "Teens" rather than "Team".

Having watched the wheels fall off Wargames Factory, I've been harsh and only voted for box sets I could see myself buying, either because I have a keen interest and there's no plastic offerings in the market, or I have a mild interest in an available product that would be inflamed by the option of a Wargames Atlantic version. I still ended up voting for several choices per heat. I, of course, still hope my hooded, robed monks/cultists win, but there's a lot of good stuff here amongst the repeats and...chaff, yeah, that seems like the polite term...chaff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 13:41:23


 
   
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Germany

Okay let's go through this one by one.

 Irbis wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Nope i'm pretty sure it's a sword.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koncerz

And in addition to this one, a backsword and a sabre.

No, it's not. It lacks edge, it's as long as the user is tall, and was only used to pierce in charge, never to cut. It's a lance with sword grip.


By that definition, an Estoc (which is a short, edgeless sword designed to pierce mail and armour) is a very short lance with a sword grip. A sword is defined as a bladed melee weapon intended for cutting or thrusting that is longer than a knife or dagger (nothing about an upper lenght limit), consisting of a long blade attached to a hilt. A sword needn't have an edge, "edgeless swords" is a real category of swords, and it includes some Rapiers, Estocs, Tucks and some Basket-Hilted swords.

 Irbis wrote:

Dunno what you call backsword, a pałasz? I'd argue it, like a saber, is not a sword either


And yes, a Pałasz is a Backsword - which is a type of a single-edged, one-handed sword commonly used by infantry and as a secondary weapon for cavalrymen.

And a Sabre is, still, a type of a sword. In fact, a Sabre is merely a curved variant of a Backsword. And since all Backswords are Swords, a Sabre is still a Backsword.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 13:59:49


Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
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MN

We totally need some Winger Hussies....


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Affton, MO. USA

 Easy E wrote:
We totally need some Winger Hussies....


I almost married one.....

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Richmond, VA

chaos0xomega wrote:
So you're saying the Red Blok - who originated on Hades and are known as Hadesians in the setting - have a unit called Hussars? I.E. Hadesian Hussars?

TBH - I have no idea, someone on facebook said that it was an AT-43 thing.


While Hades is the planet from which the Red Blok was formed, Hadesian is their (primary) language. In the timeline, the workers of Hades formed the Defense of Hadesian Rights Collective which later became the Red Blok. Hades is just one planet of 91 that are part of the Red Blok as a whole (and Hadesian as a language is just one of many spoken within the Red Blok).

Hussars are a variant of the Kossak strider frame (technically a "type 3 Hussar assault strider"), a walking tank.

I would wager there is a near zero percent chance that "Hadesian Hussars" refers to a specific AT-43 Red Blok strider variant. This would be like someone saying they want Slovak Riekas, which is an extraordinarily bizarre way to say Czechoslovakian T-54AR tanks. Add to this the fact the AT-43 Red Blok Hussar walking tanks are still readily available on the secondary market...

Since Hades is a few orders of magnitude more generally recognized as the mythological Greek god of the dead, I put significantly more credence in it being spooky undead cavalry (and Wargames Atlantic probably reached the same conclusion). Hell, I'm an AT-43 fanboy and at no point did I think Hadesian Hussars meant anything to do with AT-43.

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Germany

 judgedoug wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
So you're saying the Red Blok - who originated on Hades and are known as Hadesians in the setting - have a unit called Hussars? I.E. Hadesian Hussars?

TBH - I have no idea, someone on facebook said that it was an AT-43 thing.


While Hades is the planet from which the Red Blok was formed, Hadesian is their (primary) language. In the timeline, the workers of Hades formed the Defense of Hadesian Rights Collective which later became the Red Blok. Hades is just one planet of 91 that are part of the Red Blok as a whole (and Hadesian as a language is just one of many spoken within the Red Blok).

Hussars are a variant of the Kossak strider frame (technically a "type 3 Hussar assault strider"), a walking tank.

I would wager there is a near zero percent chance that "Hadesian Hussars" refers to a specific AT-43 Red Blok strider variant. This would be like someone saying they want Slovak Riekas, which is an extraordinarily bizarre way to say Czechoslovakian T-54AR tanks. Add to this the fact the AT-43 Red Blok Hussar walking tanks are still readily available on the secondary market...

Since Hades is a few orders of magnitude more generally recognized as the mythological Greek god of the dead, I put significantly more credence in it being spooky undead cavalry (and Wargames Atlantic probably reached the same conclusion). Hell, I'm an AT-43 fanboy and at no point did I think Hadesian Hussars meant anything to do with AT-43.


Never underestimate other people's stupidity mate

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
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 Easy E wrote:
We totally need some Winger Hussies....



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New Jersey, State of Perfection

 Irbis wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Nope i'm pretty sure it's a sword.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koncerz

And in addition to this one, a backsword and a sabre.

No, it's not. It lacks edge, it's as long as the user is tall, and was only used to pierce in charge, never to cut. It's a lance with sword grip.

Dunno what you call backsword, a pałasz? I'd argue it, like a saber, is not a sword either



A thrusting sword is still a sword, even if they don't have a cutting edge, "edgeless swords" are a thing. Sabers are also considered swords.

Except the last 3 possibilities were actually "polish hussars", "female hussars" and "sci fi hussars". See wings anywhere?
Like I said yesterday, descriptions were so vague people ended up voting for their imagination, not actual things, and it would be really funny if WGA did historical, not fantasy hussars and ended up with a s-storm on their hands...


In the west "Polish Hussars" refer to the winged hussars, i.e. the ones you think are "fantasy" even though they definitively existed. Likewise the term "hussar" in colloquial usage amongst americans and the like is generally more closely associated with the more distinctive polish winged hussars than it is with the Hungarian/Napoleonic cavalry style.

But you are right that the vagueness of the descriptions/concepts in general has resulted in people voting their imagination rather than for an actual concrete design.

Since Hades is a few orders of magnitude more generally recognized as the mythological Greek god of the dead, I put significantly more credence in it being spooky undead cavalry (and Wargames Atlantic probably reached the same conclusion). Hell, I'm an AT-43 fanboy and at no point did I think Hadesian Hussars meant anything to do with AT-43.


Just because *you* didn't arrive at that conclusion doesn't mean that nobody else did. Considering someone out there made the connection to AT-43, its not off the table (for all we know the guy on facebook who told me the Hadesian Hussar was an AT-43 thing is the person who submitted the request to WGA in the first place). And if you want to talk about extraordinarily bizarre ways of saying things, saying "Hadesian Hussars" when what you are actually trying to describe is "Undead Hussars" is itself extraordinarily bizarre. I don't know that "Hadesian" is a term that anyone has ever actually used to describe something relating to Hades or the Underworld, etc. Top hit on google is actually an alien civilization from Star Citizen, so maybe they are actually requesting alien cavalry (or whatever).

Now, mind you when I voted I assumed that it was either some weirdly specific historical term or something fantasy-esque, so you might be right thats what most voters and WGA themselves interpreted it as, but the fact that we are having this debate indicates that the aforementioned vagueness in the way this is being handled is going to caunot described/pitched correctly and everyones imaginations veered off from what was intended, or that otherwise lackluster concepts made it to the final round because everyone imagined they would be something much more interesting than they actually are.se problems.

I'm hoping Heat 2 is not the final round of voting and that they take the next top 10 list and actually interpret it into something more concrete (like design sketches/concepts, etc.) before asking us to vote on a winner - but it would suck regardless if some solid conceptual ideas were eliminated in Heat 1/2 because they were

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/22 17:22:13


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re: Death Fields Necromatic Death Infantry - Read the description first, and then voted for it. Same for modular robots. Also voted for cyborg gladiators, although modular robots seems more versatile. (Sure, we're playing wargames, so most robots will be weaponized, but a few worker drone bots would be useful for Objectives and/or scenario complications.)

Other items I voted in this last round.
SciFi Greeks/Hoplites
Armored onna-bugeshia/female samurai
Mayans
space bears (Honestly, I'd only want two at most. If Reaper has a bear in Bones, I may just convert one with a Primaris body.)
a VSF option other than horror
Death Fields Khanate infantry (I'm assuming these are sci-fi Mongols?)

Anyway, yes it would have been better to vote for a short description. Too late now. Let's see how WGA refines the poll in the next round.

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Sci fi hoplites also sounds great. Could be great Macragge PDF

   
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I asked for felines, robots and orcs.

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 Orlanth wrote:
I asked for felines, robots and orcs.


Ah so the most generic things ever

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New Jersey, State of Perfection

 Orlanth wrote:
I asked for felines, robots and orcs.





This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
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I guess I'm an outlier then, but when I hear hussars, I think about the fancy uniforms on light cavalry. Much more so than the Polish heavy cavalry. But that could just be me.

   
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Discriminating Warrior





Austria

well, Husar is first the LMV of the Austrian Army, than the hungarian/croatian Light Cavlary, than the French napoleonic Light Cavalry

the polish Heavy Cavalry would be Hussaria or Winged Husar but never "Husar" alone


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I suppose the exact interpretation simply varies a lot depending on a person's familiarity (or sometimes unfamiliarity) with several distinct historical periods and armies, plus interests in specific periods and assumptions based thereon, plus perhaps different translations and meanings for such terms across the globe.

Not knowing much about Napoleonic warfare, I'd associate the term "grenadier" with a person who throws grenades as per the original usage, but this declined over time, while in modern warfare the term is once again used for personnel with grenade launchers (though normal grenades may be standard issue).
Or how I'd associate terms like "legionary" with a Roman legion rather than the French Foreign Legion.

In short, generic undescriptive titles just aren't very informative!
Admittedly, having comprehensive descriptions for all proposals would not have been practical either, but a few extra words would have helped a good few of these out quite a bit.
   
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 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
I suppose the exact interpretation simply varies a lot depending on a person's familiarity (or sometimes unfamiliarity) with several distinct historical periods and armies, plus interests in specific periods and assumptions based thereon, plus perhaps different translations and meanings for such terms across the globe.

Not knowing much about Napoleonic warfare, I'd associate the term "grenadier" with a person who throws grenades as per the original usage, but this declined over time, while in modern warfare the term is once again used for personnel with grenade launchers (though normal grenades may be standard issue).
Or how I'd associate terms like "legionary" with a Roman legion rather than the French Foreign Legion.

In short, generic undescriptive titles just aren't very informative!
Admittedly, having comprehensive descriptions for all proposals would not have been practical either, but a few extra words would have helped a good few of these out quite a bit.
The original grenadiers were equipped with pottery or iron grenades which were largish and heavy, thus you needed tall, strong men to throw them, as you want the lit grenades to clear your front line when the unit is engaged in close combat. The grenadiers stood behind the rest of their comrades as they needed time to light the fuses and hurl them. This proved more trouble than benefit, and so eventually grenade use dwindled.

French Napoleonic grenadiers were still selected for size, and steady nerves, as they usually held the right flank of the battalion. Meanwhile, the light infantry company, if they had not been sent out to skirmish in front of the battalion, would hold the left. Both "flank companies" were considered elite and had the most veterans. The grenadiers still had the bursting bomb symbol as their hat badge.

As for "legionary", I too associate it with the Roman legion, rather than the French Foreign Legion. The term I associate with French Foreign Legion is "legionaires" "You are French Foreign Legionaires in order to die, and France will send you where you can die" is the motto above the door of FFL barracks.

As for the Polish Winged Hussar, here's what most historical players want (although lance armed, unlike this picture)
https://store.warlordgames.com/products/polish-winged-hussars-boxed-set?_pos=2&_sid=f91f615c1&_ss=r&variant=31469021626448#images-2
Warlord Game Polish Winged Hussars [8 metal figures for $41 USD]

Back when minis were still 25mm and lead, I bought some Polish Winged Hussars to use as High Elven cavalry, as the few High Elf cavalry units available did not look right to me. Never got around to painting them (primary army then was Dark Elves), and eventually traded them for store credit. I'm tempted by the Warlord offering, but I know I won't paint them, so that temptation I can resist. Still voted for them in the poll.

As for the 2nd tier of voting, I wonder if we'll be limited in how many entries we can vote for? At least to me, that would make sense. I was willing to vote for "Space Bears" when I had unlimited votes, but if I only have three per round, then I'm not wasting a vote.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/23 15:51:31


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New Jersey, State of Perfection

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

Admittedly, having comprehensive descriptions for all proposals would not have been practical either, but a few extra words would have helped a good few of these out quite a bit.


Why not? It would have probably reduced the number of entries if people had to provide a 2-3 sentence description of what their proposal was, would have made sorting the entries a lot easier as you could just automatically delete any submission that didn't bother to provide a description.

the polish Heavy Cavalry would be Hussaria or Winged Husar but never "Husar" alone


Maybe in Austria, definitely not in the US - especially in areas like where I'm from in NJ that has very large populations of recent Polish immigrants, the term "Hussar" on its own goes first to the winged hussars of Poland, and then to the other meanings of the term.

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Germany

What even would be "Space Bears"? Antropomorphic Bear people with guns and power armour? Animalistic bear-like aliens? Regular bears but with cybernetics and built-in guns? Regular bears in 60s-style astronaut suits from a bizzare alternate timeline where the Space Race would be about who can first send a Grizzly to the moon?

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
What even would be "Space Bears"? Antropomorphic Bear people with guns and power armour? Animalistic bear-like aliens? Regular bears but with cybernetics and built-in guns? Regular bears in 60s-style astronaut suits from a bizzare alternate timeline where the Space Race would be about who can first send a Grizzly to the moon?
Ah, good point. I'm fond of David Brin's Uplift series, so I'd think of terran bears given opposable thumbs and human intelligence, so they'd pass for "Anthropomorphic Bear people", but you are right and have provided some interesting alternates like "Regular bears but with cybernetics and built-in guns."

Actually, provided they still have them when I next order from Miniature Market, I found my space bear. It is a prepaint, and not very good, but it saves me the effort of converting. It is a bear in power armor with "thunder hammer". There is 75-100 credit melee specialist in Stargrave; I'd use Mr. Bear as such.

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Austria

chaos0xomega wrote:

Maybe in Austria, definitely not in the US - especially in areas like where I'm from in NJ that has very large populations of recent Polish immigrants, the term "Hussar" on its own goes first to the winged hussars of Poland, and then to the other meanings of the term.

very interesting as in Austria we usually use the original term for foreign named troops (spelling can be off for pronunciation) and the polish name is Husaria (hence Hussaria in German) while the light cavalry are Husar for the Hungarian "Huszár" (same as Ulan from the polish Ułan) while the similar Croatian light cavalry is named Crabat (from Croatian Cravat)

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I wouldn’t say that the entries were submitted without detailed comments. My submission had two or three sentences adding specificity to the kit, but those sentences were dropped from the poll option, leaving only a vague phrase.

   
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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
What even would be "Space Bears"? Antropomorphic Bear people with guns and power armour? Animalistic bear-like aliens? Regular bears but with cybernetics and built-in guns? Regular bears in 60s-style astronaut suits from a bizzare alternate timeline where the Space Race would be about who can first send a Grizzly to the moon?


Can I get a sprue with all four?

 
   
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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
What even would be "Space Bears"? Antropomorphic Bear people with guns and power armour? Animalistic bear-like aliens? Regular bears but with cybernetics and built-in guns? Regular bears in 60s-style astronaut suits from a bizzare alternate timeline where the Space Race would be about who can first send a Grizzly to the moon?


You're missing giant cyber-tardigrades, which I think is most likely
   
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As long as the Space Bears are wearing 1960s Cosmonaut spacesuits. Nothing says DOOM quite like Russian Space Bear Calvary.

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Rihgu wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
What even would be "Space Bears"? Antropomorphic Bear people with guns and power armour? Animalistic bear-like aliens? Regular bears but with cybernetics and built-in guns? Regular bears in 60s-style astronaut suits from a bizzare alternate timeline where the Space Race would be about who can first send a Grizzly to the moon?


You're missing giant cyber-tardigrades, which I think is most likely


What about cybernetic antropomorphic tardigrade-men in 60s Soviet cosmonaut suits?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/23 17:13:49


Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
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chaos0xomega wrote:
 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

Admittedly, having comprehensive descriptions for all proposals would not have been practical either, but a few extra words would have helped a good few of these out quite a bit.


Why not? It would have probably reduced the number of entries if people had to provide a 2-3 sentence description of what their proposal was, would have made sorting the entries a lot easier as you could just automatically delete any submission that didn't bother to provide a description.
Simply because 70-80 small blocks of text per poll would have been a pain to read through, especially assuming limited formatting options are available in a poll. While you could perhaps have filtered out submissions without descriptions to lower that amount, it would have also been impractical to require descriptions for things that are quite clear - just means yet more reading when none would be necessary (the single word "Yetis" already tells me everything I really need to know. And hell yeah it gets a vote!). As said, most unclear entries could have been cleared up with just a few extra words, or specific time periods, etc. For some, I'd have enjoyed reading through the thought process and a few sentences behind the idea, but certainly wouldn't want to scroll through 500 of those.
   
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Rihgu wrote:
You're missing giant cyber-tardigrades, which I think is most likely
Funny, I read Children of Ruin last month, and there were genetically-modified giant tardigrades used for asteroid mining. If this sounds interesting, it's the 2nd book in a two book series, so one should read Children of Time first.

The Soviet Cosmonaut bears idea I also like!

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Well now i'm defineatly gonna submit "60s Soviet Cosmonaut Bears" as a thing if they ever make another poll.

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
 
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