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Carlovonsexron wrote:
It's pretty clear the Spanish Inquisition inspired sculpts are making people feel genuinely uncomfortable. I know this because I'm one of them.

Particularly because they might be many things, but Spanish Inquisition ain't one of them. gak, not even the Monty Python one.

I mean, with the capirotes they kinda sorta look like nazarenos... but that's Holy Week, nothing to do with the Inquisition.

I won't claim an authoritative knowledge on the dress of the Catholic church (or Inquisition) in Spain! Only that I've seen the argument that the hood based design is inspired by it.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
I won't claim an authoritative knowledge on the dress of the Catholic church (or Inquisition) in Spain! Only that I've seen the argument that the hood based design is inspired by it.

Doesn't really matter that the argument is from somewhere else if it's wrong, you know

What I meant is that even if you claim it's the Spanish Inquisition... well, for starters, it's wrong, and outside of Spain most people wont know what's a nazareno or what those capirotes are used for here.

They'll mostly see the Klan.

Does it bother me? Well, yes, because to me the link is clear, but to most people out there...

Also, welcome to Spain's Holy Week

https://www.google.com/search?q=capirote+semana+santa&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwifmvSJ1aDtAhUF1uAKHSJrDOwQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=capirote+se&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgBMgIIADICCAA6BAgjECc6BAgAEEM6BQgAELEDOggIABCxAxCDAToECAAQAzoHCAAQsQMQQzoECAAQHjoGCAAQCBAeOgQIABAYUP1ZWMZsYMZ4aAFwAHgAgAFuiAGUCJIBBDEwLjKYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=bdy_X9-vO4Wsgwei1rHgDg&bih=610&biw=1280&client=firefox-b-d

It's apparent that they're a mashup of several distinct historical elements, like pretty much everything in 40K. Those carnival Grotesque masks for example - iconic Redemptionist. Not the Church, not the Klan, something else. There's also an explicit theme of ethnic cleansing attached to the faction. The argument can definitely be made that GW are justified in ditching them, but this leads to the obvious conclusion that lots and lots of 40K lore will have to be flushed on the strength or lack thereof in that argument.

Well, that's a derailment. I think the Redemptionists will be largely fine. There were only a few pointy hoods in the original line up and if people kicked up a stink over the executioner, well...

The rest were all in Monks Habbits:



So I reckon Cawdor without as much poverty but with more masks, brazier-hats, and flame effect habbits. Oh, and definitely the flamers and executioners. Oh the flamers...

 zedmeister wrote:
I think the Redemptionists will be largely fine. There were only a few pointy hoods in the original line up...

Fair point.

Folks, could we just... not? We've already had one Necromunda thread locked because this discussion got out of hand.

I think the original discussion was "Do you think the thing coming in 4th quarter 2021 will be Redemptionists or Ratskins" and so far the consensus seems to be "probably not, but who knows?"

Necromunda's Redemptionists were deliberate expies of Torquemada and the Terminators from the Nemesis the Warlock comic series. Klovis the Redeemer was created by Pat Mills, the same guy who created the Nemesis series and characters, and was an explicit callback to the Torquemada character.

IIRC, Pat Mills has stated that both the Spanish Inquisition and the KKK were influences on his Terminators (and therefore on the Redemptionists).

Redemptionists bad; murder cults and slavers fine.
Simples. Duh.

 Dysartes wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Do their quarters run Jan to Dec, or is it more like seasons?

That would be one heck of a long quarter.

In terms of new gangs in Necro17, what's the full list look like? Off the top of my head, I remember seeing:
- Chaos Cult (in WD)
- Genestealer Cult (in WD)
- Palatine Enforcers
- Slave Ogryns (latest Goliath book?)
- Corpse Grinders (cult #3? Not sure where printed)

There's an argument that Chaos/GSC/Enforcers have appeared before, but I can't recall where the former two would've been printed.

Any others that I've missed from released material thus far?

Quarters of Jan to Dec are the same length as any other (April-March financial, Feb-ish to Jan for seasonal though not sure why they’d use seasons of the year).

I just removed a grip of off topic posts, if we can leave the politics for elsewhere, it would help keep the thread better focused, thanks!

Danny76 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Do their quarters run Jan to Dec, or is it more like seasons?

That would be one heck of a long quarter.

In terms of new gangs in Necro17, what's the full list look like? Off the top of my head, I remember seeing:
- Chaos Cult (in WD)
- Genestealer Cult (in WD)
- Palatine Enforcers
- Slave Ogryns (latest Goliath book?)
- Corpse Grinders (cult #3? Not sure where printed)

There's an argument that Chaos/GSC/Enforcers have appeared before, but I can't recall where the former two would've been printed.

Any others that I've missed from released material thus far?

Quarters of Jan to Dec are the same length as any other (April-March financial, Feb-ish to Jan for seasonal though not sure why they’d use seasons of the year).

Anyone whose reporting includes quarters that are 12 months long is in the wrong job. With the possible exception of those working on the Olympics.

Man, I hate having to explain a joke.

@Insane Ivan - Glad to hear I hadn't missed anything, though it sounds like NMNR is causing some problems for the GSC and Chaos Cults? That's a shame - Necro is definitely one of those games where conversion options should be part and parcel of the whole experience.

Sounds like people have an infinite appetite for new content for this game. How many gangs you need, 12 is not enough? W OK uld 20 suffice? 50? How many special characters you need? I could teach you how to use a random number generator to create infinite amount of new weapons and characters. The game is going to have 96 skills, do we need more? The latest white dwarf includes tactics card nr 322. We will have maybe 100 more next year. 18 allies. Should we perhaps have 6 more? Another reset to print 6 house books again (and again)?

Balance and quality is obviously not of any concern. Quantity > quality?

It’s....it’s almost as if it’s possible for different people to have different opinions, appetites and preferences!

 Dysartes wrote:
.@Insane Ivan - Glad to hear I hadn't missed anything, though it sounds like NMNR is causing some problems for the GSC and Chaos Cults? That's a shame - Necro is definitely one of those games where conversion options should be part and parcel of the whole experience.

Well, Necromunda remains one of the few GW games where NMNR doesn’t always apply, though the amount of (arguably arbitrary) equipment restrictions is increasing. But there’s still plenty of options for which there are no models, and not just for the many Dramatis Personae.

For GSC and Chaos though, basically we’ve got them to use in the game, and their rules are OK. It’s just that I’d expect any further rules to be for dedicated Necromunda gangs, so rather than more Chaos cult rules we’d see more stuff for Corpse Grinders, for example. Or completely new gangs.

Gang n+1 is a good addition to the game if it fills a gap in the line not filled in the preceding n gangs.

Said gap can be thematic or mechanical, or ideally both.

Especially if the introduction of gang n+1 brings some cool new models along for the ride.

Enforcers and Slave Ogryns definitely qualify there, as they both provide something very different to other gangs.

I'd question if we need all three of GSC, Chaos & Corpse Grinders from a thematic perspective, but that's without having read into the background for the latter - and I've not read the most recent set of rules for any of them, so can't comment on the mechanical side of things.

 Insane Ivan wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
.@Insane Ivan - Glad to hear I hadn't missed anything, though it sounds like NMNR is causing some problems for the GSC and Chaos Cults? That's a shame - Necro is definitely one of those games where conversion options should be part and parcel of the whole experience.

Well, Necromunda remains one of the few GW games where NMNR doesn’t always apply, though the amount of (arguably arbitrary) equipment restrictions is increasing. But there’s still plenty of options for which there are no models, and not just for the many Dramatis Personae.

For GSC and Chaos though, basically we’ve got them to use in the game, and their rules are OK. It’s just that I’d expect any further rules to be for dedicated Necromunda gangs, so rather than more Chaos cult rules we’d see more stuff for Corpse Grinders, for example. Or completely new gangs.

We still don’t even have a good picture of what a Van Saar Arachnarig even Looks like much less a model for one, and we got those rules over a year ago.

Mr. Grey wrote:Not happy that I have to wait until Q3 for the book for the one gang that I play. Guess it is what it is.

well I guess someone has to be last....yayyy Delaque! Guess I'm waiting even longer. 2yrs in between releases, that's a recipe for success.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:They might. I mean, I’m genuinely not ruling it out.

But I reckon we might see new gangs and/or environments explored.

would be cool, but realistically in 3 years @ the rate they're going.

I was reading the reddit discussion about the VS teaser, and apparently the GW stream may have referred to the champions as wearing 'Spyrer suits'?

Honestly, I hope that's how it pans out. Firstly, I love watching the reactionary traditionalists get salty when something isn't how it was in 1995. Secondly, small, elite gangs are almost always un-balanceable, so I wouldn't miss Spyrers being a self-contained gang at all.

So you want people who like Spyrers to suffer?

That sounds like a good attitude to have.

lmao I don't know where to start with that one.

Maybe with the proposition that not buying a new product because it doesn't capture what you liked about a 30 year old product constitutes "suffering."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did you miss this inquiry, btw?

 Altruizine wrote:

[Dear H.B.M.C.,] Can you tell us how many of the Forgeworld Necromunda models you currently own, please? Will you be buying all future releases? When did you last play a game of Necromunda; and when was the last game you played in which you fielded a special character?

I need an answer to respectfully honour your suffering.

"I love watching the reactionary traditionalists get salty when something isn't how it was in 1995"

"I wouldn't miss Spyrers being a self-contained gang at all"

You don't want Spyrers back, and you'll enjoy the people unhappy with such a result.

As I said: Sounds like a good attitude to have.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"I love watching the reactionary traditionalists get salty when something isn't how it was in 1995"

"I wouldn't miss Spyrers being a self-contained gang at all"

You don't want Spyrers back, and you'll enjoy the people unhappy with such a result.

As I said: Sounds like a good attitude to have.

I like Spyrers, and I want them back. The best way to do that would be to sprinkle them around as Brutes, Hired Guns, Allies, members of extant gangs, etc. and not make them a self-contained gang.

But sprinking Spyrers as they were into other gangs, or as brutes isn't who or what they are. They don't work for down-hive houses; they are hunting parties from the upper Houses due to the interfaces needed to run them. Most likely would be to have the armours available to leaders/champions in Brat gangs

You could maybe get away with one or two as fallen house members that brought their rig with them, but that would be rare. I suspect we already have one of these with the winged guy.


As for needing GS Cult, Helots and Corpse Ginders they are all thematically different, fitting different parts of the hive story. GS Cult we know will come back with their own book at some point as they have talked about wanting to do the spire that got overrun/quarantined

 endtransmission wrote:
But sprinking Spyrers as they were into other gangs, or as brutes isn't who or what they are. They don't work for down-hive houses; they are hunting parties from the upper Houses due to the interfaces needed to run them. Most likely would be to have the armours available to leaders/champions in Brat gangs

You could maybe get away with one or two as fallen house members that brought their rig with them, but that would be rare. I suspect we already have one of these with the winged guy.

It would be great if they did them like an Edwardian hunting party; one or two actual Spyrers, plus a load of hangers-on. Armourers, loaders, the butler, a “native” guide, floozy with parasol, etc. A bit like the old-school inquisitorial acolytes.

 Jadenim wrote:


It would be great if they did them like an Edwardian hunting party; one or two actual Spyrers, plus a load of hangers-on. Armourers, loaders, the butler, a “native” guide, floozy with parasol, etc. A bit like the old-school inquisitorial acolytes.

Great idea for their hangers on. Really reinforces that they’re a bunch of fops and layabouts in daddy’s pocket. After all, who needs an ammojack? There’s more important people to bring like the pastry chef and maid!

Spyrers. My least favourite aspect of the original.

I found them really quite dull. And prone to attracting power gamers uninterested in the narrative side of the game. And my focus on the narrative side is again just my own little quirk - I am not saying, suggesting, insinuating or claiming to be Right, or even that there’s a Right Way to play Necromunda. You do you my dudes.

But hey folks, that doesn’t mean they should be removed at all. Nor does it mean they should be redesigned or otherwise shifted from what they are.

You don’t like them? Cool. Then head up a campaign where they’re not allowed to participate.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"I love watching the reactionary traditionalists get salty when something isn't how it was in 1995"

"I wouldn't miss Spyrers being a self-contained gang at all"

You don't want Spyrers back, and you'll enjoy the people unhappy with such a result.

As I said: Sounds like a good attitude to have.

That's not what he said, though.

He thinks it's funny to see how the old players overreact when GW doesn't do the same for Necromunda than in 1995. Not that he enjoys the suffering of people loving Spyrers not seeing them in the new edition - after all, they don't have to come back the way they were before.

And he said he doesn't mind Spyrers not being in the current edition as a self contained gang. Not that he doesn't want to see Spyrers at all.


TBH, Spyrers working as a gang like the others always felt wrong. They are meant to be overpowered and above the scum of the Underhive. They're Spyrers, after all. I too wouldn't mind them to be played differently as well, to represent that better. I see them more like individual predators than a band working together, personnally.

Like playing a Marbo scenario in 40k : a gang facing an unseen monstruous killer and trying desperatly to survive, despite their higher numbers. Spyrers in a special survival scenario would work great, I think, and totally translate the aura of fear these guys truly give to the Underhive inhabitants.

Again, has there been any mention of Spyrers in the latest version?

There's quite a lot of Noble House activity downhive now - Rebel lords, noble house representatives and a fair few Dramtis Personae.

Looks wise, the Van Saar have got the hi-tech body armour covered. Rules wise, they've got:

The Arachnorig - A hybrid of Malcandon and Orrus
Freikstorn Strix - Who's basically a Yeld
Any Random Gang Leader with an energy shield - Jakara

Take that little lot and it's going to clock in around 700 creds. Godness knows what special rules the new three armed guys are going to have, and with the hoverboards they've got Yeld flight well and truly covered.

The Van Saar ARE the spyrers in this edition.

I'll wait for the background written in the House of Artifices before saying they're Spyrers. So far, what is written for the new edition doesn't go that way. It's just that they have access to a STC and that's the reason why their technology is so advanced.

They also don't really work the same as the old Spyrers, since they're more looking for archeotech and experimenting in the Underhive rather than having "fun" hunting scummers for the sport.

TBH, we already have Spyrers in the new Necromunda, with the noble house agents.