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<table width="100%" height="100%" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" colspan="3"> I'm new to Dakka and I wanted to put up my most recent tournament report.  Its a bit of a silly army, but I thought some people probably always wondered how this army would do.  I've put this on a few other forums, so apologies to anyone who has already seen this somewhere else.


I trundled out my spray painted Crons for another tourney, this one was The Exterminatus, a new tourney in the SE.

The Tourney:

There was both a fantasy and a 40k tournament going on, with 5 games of each separated between 2 days. The 40k tournament had about twice as many entrants as the fantasy tourney.

There were enough tables to comfortably hold all games with a bunch left over, and prizes (dice, army container foam things, etc.) were handed out during the games. The event took place in the Gwinnett convention center, a large and well air-conditioned venue. There were about 4 staff members for between 30 and 40 gamers, which seemed to be enough. All told, a well handled event. Especially awesome was that we had 2 and a half hours for each game, and consequently every game was a full six rounds. This is rarer than I'd like.

The Field:

There was a diverse field to play again in the 40k tournament, including the following armies:

3 Vanilla marines (1 was very balanced, 1 terminator heavy, the last I didn't see clearly, seemed like las/plas optimized shooty death)
Deathguard (Assault marines w/t 5)
Emperor's children (marines w/sonic weapons and daemonettes and Prince from Hell for assault)
Night Lords, assault marines who infiltrate
2 Iron Warriors (both basically shooty armies with 3 Oblits to deep strike and contest table quarters and raptors to come get you...2 HQ's to help with the counterattack)
2 Blood Angels (both had Lemartes, 1 had Mephiston, 4 and 8 man Death Co's, one was more balanced, other was a full on blitz with assault marines)
2 Thirteenth companies (Are there more than one kind of these? Blitz armies, wolves to hold down the enemy and then marines to take care of business)
1 Eldar (lots of kinds of stuff, main gimmick was an Avatar w/ 4 large guardian squads chilling nearby to be fearless...dire avengers, guardians on jetbikes, all about the dakka dakka at s6 AP not 3.)
2 Tau (1 Mech Tau, other static Tau)
1 Necron (Yr. Correspondent)
2 Dark Eldar (witch's and skimmers)
1 Witch Hunters (odd list, penitent engines, dreadnoughts, inquisitor lord in the throne, etc. Basically a godzilla list with a callidus thrown in)
1 Tyranids (horde army, gaunts and gargoyles w/1 CC fex and 1 CC winged hive tyrant, some warriors for synapse on the throngs)

There were probably half a dozen more armies that I didn't chance to take a picture of or do battle with.

My list:

Deceiver,
10 Warriors,
11 Warriors,
6 Flayed Ones,
6 Flayed Ones,
7 Flayed Ones,
10 Scarabs w/disruption fields
10 Scarabs w/disruption fields
10 Scarabs w/disruption fields
3 Tomb Spyders
3 Tomb Spyders
3 Tomb Spyders w/particle projectors

The notion behind this list is that on a particular area of a planet the living forces are being besieged by endless scarabs. An intrepid scout approaches one of their small force commanders, and leads 2000 points of the living to the scarab production facility...which turns out to be Tomb Spyders! as the spyders lurch in the scout reveals himself as the Deceiver and brings Flayed ones out of ambush to the attack. Now the living must somehow avoid the scarab and tomb spyder rush to get at the Necrons and phase them out...before the Deceiver obliterates all resistance.

My list assessment:

My list is 13 hundred points of armor coating around 700 points of chewy Necron center. It is appallingly easy to phase my army out if you can get at the Necrons. By contrast there are 90 wounds of Scarabs and 27 more wounds being generated each round. To cut through that swarm is impossible without s6 or > weapons. I've never encountered an enemy who can prevent the second round scarab rush, and once that occurs the game is in the palm of my hands. Thus...my assessment:

Vs. Slow shooty armies: Should be a win, remnants of scarabs hold them long enough for Deceiver/Tomb Spyders to get in place and devour them
Vs. Fast Assault lists: Should be a win, they've paid points for speed and fight, and I've just paid for fight, they rush to my line and get consumed
Vs. Slow assaulty lists: Should be a win, by the time we meet I've been bolstered by > 50 free wounds of scarabs which serve to bury the tomb spyders like vet sarge's with powerfists.
Vs. Fast shooty armies: Should be a draw/loss, they will scoot out of the way of the tomb spyders and Deceiver, and thus only have to deal with the scarabs. To win the Deceiver's mojo would have to be working over time, or the scarabs disruption fields would need to be very lucky

Operating instructions:

This list is simplicity itself to play
1. Deploy your tomb spyders in a wall as far forward as possible, with the Deceiver in the center. Put 1 unit of warriors behind this wall, 1 unit out in the open. All Scarabs are behind cover. Infiltrate Flayed Ones as appropriate to claim table quarters/objectives, in a VP game hide them with the warriors behind the wall. After infiltrate and scout, Grand Illusion the warriors in the open back behind the wall.

Roll for first turn, you take it if you can, if not, endure their shooting. They will hopefully only be able to see Tomb Spyders, who are t6 this turn.

Your turn: Turbo boost all scarabs forward, get into position to charge. Remember that you can't end your turbo boost in terrain, only over it. Move rest of line forward, all Tomb Spyders create scarabs.

Their turn: They fire at tomb spyders or scarabs who have turbo boosted, their choice.

Your next turn: If any scarabs left, tie up whatever looks good, eat stationary vehicles if possible. Tomb Spyders continue trucking, Necrons stay behind them. Usually 2 scarab bases is enough for the spyders, no need to get greedy. Don't create any more bases for a wounded spyder, you need to make your foe work to earn dead spyders.

From here on out just move your army towards the enemy, splitting off elements to claim objectives or quarters, make certain to keep the Necrons in range of the tomb spyder/deceiver wall in case the foe attempts to launch an assault on them and phase you out.




The Tournament:

Round 1:

The opponent....Vanilla marines

This guy would get my vote for best painted army, just really really well done. His force was cheese free and well balanced (although the characters had about 45 attacks each somehow) and really looked like it would be a good match for my army.

His list, as I can remember:

2 tanks w/twin-linked lascannons
1 Whirlwind
2 Assault squads
2 terminators squads
A number of tac squds
1 Chapter Master w/jump pack + lots of wargear
1 Chaplain w/jump pack + lots of wargear

The mission:

L shaped deployment, only HQ and troop choices on the table, rest start in reserve. Infiltrate allowed.

Primary objective: VP's (Battle Points: 15 for massive, 12 for crushing, 10 for win, 8 for draw, 5 for loss)
Secondary objective: Kill highest point enemy squad (5 if done)
Last objective: Have more table quarters than enemy (2 if done)

He's got 2 tac squads and his chapter master, I've got 2 warrior squads, 3 Flayed One units and the big D.

Basically I mess this game up, I move my warriors and flayed ones in on him and get caught when his reserves return. I pull back my guys. The scarabs and spyders were late, his guys were on time. My Deceiver ate an assault squad, a terminator squad, and his chaplain, but it was too late, the enemy was able to drive me to within 2 of phase out, then a landspeeder raced around the side and got 3 rends and 3 kills with his heavy bolter, and I phased. This was a crushing Victory for him, since he had lost enough points that it wasn't quite a victorious slaughter.

It was a good game, intense to the end, with equal VP losses on both sides and a great deal of good humor all round. Probably my favorite game of the tournament. Final score: 19 VPs to enemy, 5 to me.

Round 2:

The opponent: Death Guard

The army was well converted and well painted (not quite so well as previous army was painted, but good). I esp. liked that the units with nurgle's rot had green foam billowing off them, so it was easy to handle the rot effect at the end of his shooty phase.

This game was essentially a list mismatch. He had just one powerfist (on an asp. champ) and the Dreadnought's CC weapon to instant kill bases. His high toughness meant scarabs wouldn't really wound his guys, but they would still hold them in place until the tomb spyders got there. I didin't think, going in, that he had even a hope of victory...of course, I hadn't met BANE.

His list:
2 Sorcerers w/nurgly powers
4 units of plague marines, 2 have rhinos, 1 Dreadnought (BANE), 1 predator, 1 unit terminators

The mission:

Primary objective: Table quarters (Battle points: 15 for 3 more quarters, 13 for 2 more quarters, 10 for 1 more quarter, 8 for equal, 5 for loss)
Secondary objective: Put HQ in enemy deployment zone (5 if you do this)
Third objective: Kill a chosen enemy HQ (2 if you do this)

You also had to put a unit in reserve and bring it on from a narrow table edge (thus "flanking", your enemy), so I stuck a warrior unit out there, they showed up on about turn 5 and did nothing much)

He won the roll for first turn and gave it to me. I sent 30 scarabs winging over to his army. He sent in his guys and started punching them. When the tomb spyders got there they ate his marines, the Big D rolled up on his HQ and chosen terminator retinue, which had roughly nine thousand power weapon attacks...all at s4. Everything was going swimmingly...except on the right flank, where BANE was. Now, correct my mathhammer, but a Dreadnought with 2 CC weapons fighting 2 tomb spyders buried behind 2 scarabs each shouldn't last so much as one turn, right? But he ate each and every scarab, and then set to work on the spyders hidden behind them. I, disbelieving as the scarabs fell, sent in a third spyder, a foolish error. On my 8th penetrating hit I destroyed a weapon...which he promptly grew back. He destroyed the 3 spyders and got free...and my warrior squad rapid fired him, doing nothing....and promptly I realized he could charge them...he was going to singlehandedly tie up the game, as they were my only squad in the lower right quarter, but then his frenzy kicked in, and he rushed 4 inches at the nearest tomb spyder, which he ate. He stated safetly in the upper right quarter though.

Game ended with me contesting all 4 quarters, and him contesting 2 (the one where the flankers had come in and the one where Bane sat atop a mound of dead spyders and my flankers cowered in a corner)

I think this guy dinged me on sportsmanship and I can't blame him. I went over the Deceiver's stat line with him pre-game, but I probably should have said something along the lines of "you sure you want to bring all those guys in to fight him? They can't actually wound him"

Result: Me 14 VPs (crushing win + third objective, accidently moved Deciever out of his deployment zone to eat some plague marines), him 5 points

Third match:

Enemy, Blood Angels

The new blood angels, I'd played a match against these guys while playtesting the list, of course, they hadn't had Lord Mephiston. His army was about as badly painted as mine was, and the player was one I'd faced before. His list wasn't really very min-maxed, and I felt confident of victory.

His list:

1 Pred, 1 Whirlwind, 1 Dread, 1 scout squad, 1 set of assault marines, 1 death co (4 strong), 1 biker unit, 5 terminators w/thunder hammers and shields, 1 tac squad, HQ's were Mephiston and Lemartes

The mission: Defenders deploy in a big box in the middle with just their heavy support and troops, attackers come on in first turn, which is their turn automatically, remainder of defenders come on as normal reserves. Infiltrate and Deep strike allowed as normal.

Primary: VP's (15 for massive, 12 for crushing, 10 for win, 8 for draw, 5 for loss)
Secondary: Control the center (5 BP's if you do this)
Third: Win 5 combats (2 BP's if you do this)
He won the roll, chose to be attackers.

I deployed my tomb spyders and warriors as far south as the box would allow, and infiltrated the flayed ones in slightly west of the box, behind some terrain.

His army came zipping in from the north...and I perceived to my horror that I'd made a grave strategic error. Lemartes, the Death Co, and Mephiston and could jump pack over the terrain and assault my flayed ones...after the 9 microseconds that battle lasted they would massacre south and take on the warriors + maybe some tomb spyders, and I'd lose before my scarabs and the Deceiver could make it into battle. Luckily he didn't realize this, and sent Lemartes and the Death Co into the tomb spyder line, while Mephiston and his marines sort of chilled out north of the terrain. I immediately swamped them with a group of scarabs and buried the death co in tomb spyders. The game ground on, and except for the Whirlwind being the world's most deadly whirlwind (hits 2 Necrons and 4 partials, all are in, all wound, 5 fail their saves, none stand back up) the game was never in doubt after that point. Ultimately mephiston fought his way clear of the pile'o scarabs and rushed the Deceiver, which was basically a VP donation to my cause.

Game's end saw my victory, and me having control of the center. As befits assault armies, we had both achieved the third objective: 17 to 7.

Fourth Match:

The enemy: Iron warriors

His list was a big shooty list, and I'd played it before. He had 2 pie plate droppers, a defiler and some tank with a battle cannon, 3 obliterators who were each a seperate choice, a unit of raptors with the world's evilest asp. champ, some havocs and a bunch of tac marines with lascannons.

The mission: Triangle deployments (GROAN), with no escalation or anything like that.
Primary objective: Table quarters (BP's, 12 for 3 more quarters, 10 for 2 more quarters, 8 for 1 more quarter, 5 for draw, 5 for loss)
Secondary objective: Pride (6 BP for win more combats than opponent)
Third objective: Have 1 HQ with > half strength at game's end (4 BP for doing this)

The battle went like this, I rushed with scarabs and spyders/Deceiver, while leaving my necrons to hold the 2 table quarters I was in. He tried to shoot up the rush force and sent his raptors/deep struck his oblits to take out my necrons. His attempt to shoot up the rush force failed abysmally, and his Lord twice failed difficult terrain tests to rush out there and help out with the Necron cleanup. His raptors made it through the Deceiver/tomb spyders/scarabs with 1 guy and the asp. champ left. So the game came down to my 40ish Necrons vs. 3 oblits and 2 raptors, one of whom was death one a jump pack. If I could avoid phaseout I'd win by a landslide, as his army was being eaten by my main force in the background. If he could get enough necrons to cause phaseout it'd be the other way around

Ultimately the oblits and raptors got me down to about 12 Necrons, but the dice turned on my foe and his oblits all died in the last round, leaving just the raptor God to glare at the prey he would have finished off himself in the next round. His raptors had won so many battles, and his marines had won a bunch against the scarabs, that he was able to win the Pride objective despite having had his army assaulted off the board.

Thus: Necron massive victory 16 to me, 11 to him.

Fifth round:

The enemy: Emperor's children

This enemy's list was exquisitely well painted, and composed of all the things Chaos will be losing next codex. He had 3 Daemonette units, 2 of 12 footsloggers and 1 of 6 on steeds. He had 2 squads of raptors and a few squads of noise marines with sonic weaponry, 1 Daemon prince from hell and an infiltrating HQ with daemonic speed. The player was from my own club, and one I had fought on numerous occasions. We had a tradition of battles where no one walked away with many VP's. I swore to give him a proper obituary, that this wasn't merely a battle, but a funeral procession for his beloved Emp's children, as his beautifully painted models would end their tournament career ground beneath the spray painted tread of the crons of doom. I reminded him that he had never defeated me in a tournament game. He mocked my heritage, my codex and my hygiene and we were ready to go.

The mission:

12 inch deployment zones on the long table edge, VP's for the win
Primary objective: VP's (Massive gives 15, crushing 12, victory 10, tie 8, defeat 5)
Secondary objective: Put HQ in foe's deployment zone
Third objective: Kill all opponent HQ's

I was able to pull a refused flank with Grand Illusion, and stranded half his noise marines and his infiltrating lieutenant far away from the fighting. There was also a large piece of terrain the the middle of the board, which I used to block LOS and give cover saves to my army. My play was simplicity itself, hiding my force behind the Deciever and his 9 spyders while advancing on his left flank, which I pinned down with Tomb Spyders. He countered with his prince and his Daemonettes, which basically shredded my tomb line. The Deceiver, however, was able to kill off his Prince and help out with the Daemonettes before things got out of hand, and then move up to help out with his left side. I was unable to mount any kind of attack on his right flank, however, and was forced to deal with the mounted daemonettes and the daemonic speed HQ with my crons and flayed ones. Ultimately I had both warrior units and 1 flayed one unit at full, and 1 flayed one unit left below half, with the Deceiver wounded but in the enemy zone. He had 3 or 4 noise marine/havoc squads left, and 1 under half. When the VP's were all counted, it was a draw game, but he would have had the win with just about 50 more VP's.

His HQ was dead and the Deceiver was in his deployment zone, so the game's result was Draw: 8 (him) to 15 (me).

Some notes on this army's performance:

Deceiver is worth his weight in gold. In addition to dissecting the enemy's strongpoints he is also a really mobile piece with misdirect, and their seems to be some odd drive in enemy commanders to charge him with their HQ's (Mephiston, Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Daemon Prince of Slaanesh...) Finally the fact was that almost every mission had an objective that related to HQ, and he only left the table once, due to a phase out.

Warrior's charging do alright. Flayed Ones charging do alright. Neither should be mistaken for a real hand to hand force.

Tomb Spyders buried in scarabs will eat their point value in marines each combat round.

Never put a particle projector on a tomb spyder.

Even in a field full of oddities, I can draw 5 games with marines and chaos marines.

Some funny stuff at the tournament:

Skaven plague spell backfired and kill 40+ models on his own side, after twice misfiring and ending the magic phase with 12 power dice left.

Mech Tau vs. Dark Eldar, Tau wins in top of first, before Dark Eldar gets to play, just smokes his 2 warriors squads which are holding the webway gates. Dark Eldar player so mortified he quits tournament and sulks for the rest of the 2 days.

Thirteenth company vs. thirteenth company is a really funny matchup (both scout moves rush towards each other...turn 1 begins with wolves about 5 inches apart)


Anyway, a good time was had by most everyone, and I hope to see all next year.
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How did the EC player get two squads of Raptors?

Ah, my apologies, I meant the Chaos devastator equivalent.  Mayhems?  Hmm... I'm not a chaos player so I forget what they are called.

They might have been possessed. Dude that list is what i was thinking of doing, looks awesome, I am happy to now that I am not crazy. Good Job

I got it, Havocs. They were just supershooty marines who chilled out and shot. Not sure why I typed raptors, must have still been thinking of that Iron Warriors game.

Any DE player is fooling himself if he thinks 2 squads of warriors with portals is going to last a round versus most opponents.  Coupled with Ld of 8 they wilt and run at the slightest glare of weaponry.  Even in hard cover they have a hard time.

Haemonculi are IC's that do the job of hiding next to the warrior squads and lay the portal down.  I assume he was not wych cult, because warriors are elites in those games.

Very interesting list, kudos for trying something new.

2 out of 3 is a hall of fame career

i question why he even bothered to give the tau somehting to shoot at if your relying on the web to get a few more inches out the first go ... you dont set them where they can be shot.... thats bacis tactics....

thats why the de are not for everyone!

and i know the guy with the witch hunters army... i think he tied for first overall... solid list... dont know where you get godzilla from....but thats another story

You know Blake? I learned to fence from Bernie, who I think learned from Blake.. I just happened to be walking by his table and saw the inquisitor lord on his throne, all the penitent engines, the dreads and thought to myself "huh, that's like as many big guys as a zilla list has". Would have been nice to match up with him, but I was too far in the loser bracket to play him.

As for the DE player's warrior squads, I think one got hit with a pie plate from a hammerhead at an angle he didn't realize it could reach, the other got shot by smart missile systems right over the terrain.  I agree with you though, I wouldn't rely on having 2 warrior squads survive an enemy shooting round even if they were out of sight, what would I do about an IG army with pie plates?

What do you do when you draw Escalation?

Short answer: I lose.

The scarabs can handle it, but the lack of MC's means that the Tomb Spyders can't screen the Necrons. My first game was a good example of this. When I draw escalation I hide behind terrain and pray they come in to root me out so that the reserves can pounce. If they decline to do so I try and keep enough units alive as they edge around and shoot me that I can pull a draw.

Very very cool army, I dig it. Nice report too, enjoyed the breakdown and commentary on your list's performance.

How did you do overall? Congrats on running such a cool and different list regardless!

- Salvage

It is an extremely interesting army. Also terrifyingly vulnerable to certain things, namely anything that can reach out and kill a few squads of Necrons regardless of board location (indirect-firing ordnance and drop pod assault cannons, I'm looking at you). But often these odd armies are the most amusing to play, and a lot of opponents enjoy the chance to play against something new and different.

Good report!

Boss-Salve:

Overall I was in the top half, but after a first round loss never really in the running. The winning (mech tau) player got 4 massacres in a row and then a major victory over the second guy, just a dominating tourney for him.

Jathkin:

Yeah, the IW game (my 4th) came down to whether or not he could force phase out before the game ended. Pie plates raining down and oblits deep striking to slay Necrons. It was a funny game because in the top of the sixth it could still be either player's massive victory.

I'm fond of gimmick armies, not terribly competitive, but its nice to stretch the codex and get something out of it you haven't tried before.

Great to see a different kind of list. I love the run down on your unit performance as well. Cool stuff.

ender502

As I just bought a Necron army off eBay, this thread has proven to be very entertaining and educational.

Thanks 40kenthsiast!!!

BYE

Hmm,

hopefully now I have learnt enough (as I have never faced Necrons) that I can defeat HBMC's necrons when the appear in their shiny glory!!

To beat Necrons:

Don't try and outshoot Destroyers or Immortals at their own range, lock them in combat or take them down from long range. Use s6 template weaposn on Scarab swarms. Don't try and fight a C'tan unless you know exactly what you are getting into. Don't ignore a Monolith or fixate on it completely. Pounce on any squads that have left 6" from other squads. Decide early on if you are going for phase out or the mission, and stick to your decision. Get troops with rending or power weapons in contact with his infantry, and get them back in if your oppponent teleports them out.

You should drop one squad of flayed ones and replace him with a Lord + Orb (and nip/tuck anywhere needed after that).

The Lord wll not only scare off weaker assault troops (anyone w/o a powerfist almost inevitably) but double your necrons' survivability in close combat vs. power weapons/fists just by standing nearby.

Taking the Flayed Ones rather than the Lord is a phase out thing, the list is light enough on that as it is. In addition the infiltrate/Deep Strike choice is extremely valuable. The only role of the chewy center portion of this list is not to die, and the Lord, even with Res Orb, doesn't contribute enough in that vein for me to bring him on. I'd rather have the 8 Flayed Ones than a Lord with Res Orb. They do alright at scaring away weaker assault troops on their lonesome.

Nice report and I too love the list (scarabs are the main thing I like about necrons).

I'm curious though, how the tomb spider and created scarabs play on the table (no necron player locally uses em). It seems like its both good and bad to have the scarabs but it sounds like you use them to great affect. Any tips and/or observations?

It is indeed, both good and bad to make a scarab retinue:

Bad: Majority toughness. Your tomb spyder now takes wounds on a t 3, instead of a t 6.
Bad: Torrent of fire will continually force you to make tomb spyder saves.
Good: Scarabs provide ablative wounds for heavy weapon hits
Good: Scarabs are awesome in melee combat, to screen your tomb spyder like a vet sarge with powerfist
Good: Creating a scarab extends your charge range slightly.

In particular, the time you will most regret creating scarabs is if you take rapid fire from bolters. Let's say a solo tomb spyder gets rapid fired by 10 marines. He takes 14 hits, 2 wounds to save. Let's say a Tomb spyder with 2 scarab retinue gets shot by the same volley: 14 hits, 10 wounds, one on TS via torrent of fire, then 2 on scarabs and one on ts, 2 on scarabs and one on ts, 2 on scarabs and one on ts. Both scarabs are dead and the tomb spyder is taking 4 saves.

On the other hand if he was shot by a lascannon he would lose a zero point tomb spyder base instead of the spyder himself taking a wound. On your turn you get the base back and you can do this all game. In combat as well the tomb spyders essentially utterly negate the enemies ccw's and power weapons, you only fear powerfists. Torrent of fire will give the enemy one save on your spyder a turn, but he'll be killing 2 of their marines a turn, and occasionally the scarabs will pitch in and get a guy. Its also awesome when you win combat, as your cheap "unit" of tomb spyder and 3 scarabs is outnumbering at 19 models.

The tomb spyder with retinue is a solid unit just with what I've described, protection from heavy weapon fire and close combat excellence. Where it really shines, however, is in its unit type. As a monstrous creature it is a scoring unit. That's right, a scoring unit that grows stronger as the game progresses, and only occupies 1/3 of a heavy support slot...for less than a Heavy Destroyer. The amount of effort the enemy has to go through to get rid of it is way out of proportion to its cost...and when they do they've only gotten 1/9 of your heavy support. Its also excellent against enemy elite assault units. Genestealers, death company, etc. that hit a tomb spyder with 3 retinue will discover that rending doesn't mean as much against an enemy with that many ablative wounds. WS 5 is a pain though.

Stop creating scarabs as soon as you take a wound on the spyder, unless doing so will give you the crucial charge. You want to make the enemy earn dead spyders. Otherwise just keep pumping your retinue. The enemy is likely killing many scarabs a turn, so no need to worry about running out of models.

Never give a tomb spyder a gun, if all goes well you will be locked in combat the next round after you fired it, giving you the wound you would have dealt back over and over in the fight.

Thanks, that was very thorough.

Actually, mixed armor means the tomb spider is taking alot more than one save per turn.

If you have one stand of scarabs, and take 10 bolters rapid firing, you take 1.48 wouns on the spider...Good chance of killing it outright.

Sorry, I figured the fact that the solo spyder took 2 saves and the spyder with 2 stands of scarabs took 4 saves indicated the vulnerability to dakka adequately. As you pointed out, the spyder with just one stand of scarabs is in the worst of all possible worlds. 14 hits, 10 wounds, he'll take 7 saves.

Still, a 150 point unit doing what it does best to a 55 point unit really ought to put it away, right? I don't think that's unreasonably fragile. It'd be sort of crazy if he was able to persist. I can't think of a unit that can take 3 times its points in enemies doing their specialty to it and come out smiling.

My biggest problem with the Tomb Spyder + scarab retinue is when I run up against a dakka fex or devil tyrant. They vanish when it glances in their direction.

It seems it would depend on the situation. Against armies that work off of volumn of fire you're better off not making them (and risking losing a wound). Against armies that will bring AP3 or better fire more then small arms then scrarbs are a nice option. Curious though, can you hide a scarab behind the tomb spider that created it? Didn't think so but not really sure OTTOMH.

You can but its no use. Majority toughness works off the whole unit, not just the part in view, according to some FAQ or other. I learned this at a tourney, to my dismay. So then the foe is using your t3 against you...and all the saves are on the spyder, its the worst of all possible worlds.

To get around the majority toughness rule, isn't it viable with 3 Tomb Spyders to only create two scarab swarms.  You have less swarms, but the Spyders don't lose their toughness and the scarabs become more survivable.

ZF-

Each Spyder is its own unit, joined only by the bugs it personally creates. That's part of the goodness.