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Made in nz
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




Dont worry about it, just a bit of conjecture. The ideal that im getting at is to get the D6 MW without spending any CP. If one of your test dice rolls a 6, then you can decide if a shot at another 5 or 6 might be worth it. Could certainly be game deciding.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Sorry bit OT but yesterday faced GK and they drew out one of their faction specific maelstrom cards that was ME picking up their secure objective. Now me being orks that outnumbered him bazillion to one and having been able to pick up DZ with easy access to objectives he basically had no way to reach objective I picked.

Generally opponents will have 1 objective that's very well defended so it's going to be hard to archieve most of the time. So what's the upside? d3 points? Seeing how hard I would give flat 3 myself.

Should have asked him but forgot.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




Custodes have exactly the same thing - its basically a wasted card.

In any situation where you can achieve it, you''ve probably already won that battle. At least GK have their teleport psychic power Gate of Infinity.

Its just an example of bad rules design, like 'Domination'.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Spartacus wrote:
Custodes have exactly the same thing - its basically a wasted card.

In any situation where you can achieve it, you''ve probably already won that battle. At least GK have their teleport psychic power Gate of Infinity.

Its just an example of bad rules design, like 'Domination'.


So there's seriously not even theoretical upside like more victory points?

But yeah seems like that's "if you get it you are already going to be winning" as archieving that is often going to mean you are tabling enemy anyway...

Oh and yeah that domination. I got "control 3 objectives". Well with 3 pretty much bulletproof and 1 solid control that was easy. He then got the domination...At which point we couldn't help but laugh. He had basically TWO objectives he could at least contest for a while if he can keep tide of orks away for a while(which he didn't). Getting domination basically means tabling me and with 26 models vs my 243 to begin with that's pretty hard. Even the 99 grots alone would take a while to kill just on sheer numbers!


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




East of England

Looking for advice on building a decent small GK detachment to play alongside my Krieg or Marines.

GKs clearly can't cut it as a solo or even main army, but what about 700-1000pts of them backed up by bodies and guns from another faction? What's the best way to leverage them in that regard?

Is a GMDK even worth it anymore, assuming beta rules go through? Looking at his CC profile, it looks to me like Voldus is almost his equal, has character keyword and brings a truckload of denials and casts.

Or a champion for cheap points - on the subject, can the champion use noble sacrifice and then 'only in death' stratagem?

CPs wil be taken care of elsewhere - so interceptors are they way forward, I presume?

Has anyone had any success with a 4-psilencer purgation squad?

The only unit that I think gets in my list on pure effectiveness (instead of GK-related coolness) is a Ven dread with twin LC, ML and Astral Aim. That's a nasty unit right there.

General pointers are much appreciated - I've archive trawled through this and other threads btw, so I'm roughly up to speed with the deficiencies of the army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/03 07:12:13


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

Our best unit is still a 10 man Strike Squad with Psybolt Stratagem. That’s a lot of Dakka.

SJ

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in gb
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




East of England

Okay, will bear in mind. 40 heavy bolter shots materialising on a flank is pretty nasty. Do you think interceptors aren't worth the extra 50pts to be able to DS on turn 1?

How about my brotherhood champion question? Heroic Sacrifice triggers on death - can it be combined with Only in Death strat? if so a champ makes 12 attacks in the round he drops.

Which unit takes advantage of astral aim the best, in your experience - ven dread with lascannon and ML, or purgators with psilencers?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/04 08:06:28


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

Interceptors, in my opinion, are the next best unit after Strikes and GM DreadKnights.

SJ

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in au
Splattered With Acrylic Paint




Reading through a lot of the posts on this thread it gave me a rough idea on where to start.
Originally started off as a Kill Team but decided to make an actual army.

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [41 PL, 759pts] ++

+ HQ +
Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight:
+ Warlord / First to the Fray
+ Dreadfist
+ DK Teleporter
+ Gatling Psilencer
+ Heavy Psycannon
+ Nemesis Daemon Greathammer

Brotherhood Champion:

+ Troops +
Strike Squad:
4x Falchions
Justicar w/ Greathammer

Strike Squad:
4x Falchions
Justicar w/ Greathammer

Strike Squad:
4x Falchions
Justicar w/ Greathammer


++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [43 PL, 738pts] ++

+ HQ +

Librarian:
+ Daemonhammer
+ Stormshield

+ Elites +

Paladin Squad:
2x Paladin Halberds
Paragon w/ Halberd

+ Fast Attack +

Interceptor Squad:
4x Falchions
Justicar: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Interceptor Squad:
4x Falchions
Justicar: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Interceptor Squad:
4x Falchions
Justicar: Nemesis Daemon Hammer

++ Total: [84 PL, 1497pts] ++

Any suggestions would be great!

Oh and what psychic powers do you give to the PAGK squads? (SS and Interceptors)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/09 05:42:22


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Not sure why you'd use the Librarian. Best switch it out for a regular Captain if you want a Terminator HQ.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not sure why you'd use the Librarian. Best switch it out for a regular Captain if you want a Terminator HQ.

Probably because the Librarian is the only GK unit other than Draigo that can take a Storm Shield.

SJ

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not sure why you'd use the Librarian. Best switch it out for a regular Captain if you want a Terminator HQ.

Probably because the Librarian is the only GK unit other than Draigo that can take a Storm Shield.

SJ

Not really a convincing argument seeing that if someone wants to kill either one they will. Go for the better aura at least.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not sure why you'd use the Librarian. Best switch it out for a regular Captain if you want a Terminator HQ.

Probably because the Librarian is the only GK unit other than Draigo that can take a Storm Shield.

SJ

Not really a convincing argument seeing that if someone wants to kill either one they will. Go for the better aura at least.

Or you could just read his list, and note that he took a Storm Shield on the Librarian.

SJ

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not sure why you'd use the Librarian. Best switch it out for a regular Captain if you want a Terminator HQ.

Probably because the Librarian is the only GK unit other than Draigo that can take a Storm Shield.

SJ

Not really a convincing argument seeing that if someone wants to kill either one they will. Go for the better aura at least.

Or you could just read his list, and note that he took a Storm Shield on the Librarian.

SJ

Well yeah he did. And?
Lose the Storm Shield and lose the Librarian.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not sure why you'd use the Librarian. Best switch it out for a regular Captain if you want a Terminator HQ.

Probably because the Librarian is the only GK unit other than Draigo that can take a Storm Shield.

SJ

Not really a convincing argument seeing that if someone wants to kill either one they will. Go for the better aura at least.

Or you could just read his list, and note that he took a Storm Shield on the Librarian.

SJ

Well yeah he did. And?
Lose the Storm Shield and lose the Librarian.

You asked why he took the Librarian, which was answered. It’s his choice, and a bad choice given that it’s probably the only reason to take a GK Librarian in 8th. Just because you would take a different model to cover a completely different role does not mean he has to.

SJ

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not sure why you'd use the Librarian. Best switch it out for a regular Captain if you want a Terminator HQ.

Probably because the Librarian is the only GK unit other than Draigo that can take a Storm Shield.

SJ

Not really a convincing argument seeing that if someone wants to kill either one they will. Go for the better aura at least.

Or you could just read his list, and note that he took a Storm Shield on the Librarian.

SJ

Well yeah he did. And?
Lose the Storm Shield and lose the Librarian.

You asked why he took the Librarian, which was answered. It’s his choice, and a bad choice given that it’s probably the only reason to take a GK Librarian in 8th. Just because you would take a different model to cover a completely different role does not mean he has to.

SJ

The poster asked for suggestions. Taking the Librarian out of the list is a good suggestion.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 grouchoben wrote:
Looking for advice on building a decent small GK detachment to play alongside my Krieg or Marines.

GKs clearly can't cut it as a solo or even main army, but what about 700-1000pts of them backed up by bodies and guns from another faction? What's the best way to leverage them in that regard?

Is a GMDK even worth it anymore, assuming beta rules go through? Looking at his CC profile, it looks to me like Voldus is almost his equal, has character keyword and brings a truckload of denials and casts.

Or a champion for cheap points - on the subject, can the champion use noble sacrifice and then 'only in death' stratagem?

CPs wil be taken care of elsewhere - so interceptors are they way forward, I presume?

Has anyone had any success with a 4-psilencer purgation squad?

The only unit that I think gets in my list on pure effectiveness (instead of GK-related coolness) is a Ven dread with twin LC, ML and Astral Aim. That's a nasty unit right there.

General pointers are much appreciated - I've archive trawled through this and other threads btw, so I'm roughly up to speed with the deficiencies of the army.
voldus is nice - I take him every game. GMDK are more about being your armies shooting than CC beat stick - though they do that really well too (they just cost so dang much).

I'd probably go for this kind of list to support an IG army.
GMDK psycannon/psilencer - hammer (not sure if hes worth it anymore) (other good options here are crowe or a brother captain with psilencer hammer)
Voldus
10x strike
5x strike
5x strike



If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Crowe is never a good choice for anything other than "What is possibly the worst model in the codex?" He is cheap and he proves it by having a named weapon that isn't even as good as a normal nemesis weapon. He also can't use a normal smite (his has to be used at 3" or less). He also doesn't have an aura to help other models.

Mathhammer (p9) says that the sword is better than the hammer in most instances and will save you 5 points.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Anyone that says Crowe is good is someone that doesn't understand even basic game design.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Crowe is cheap and averages like 8 wounds on a squad or a character with a high invo save. With a brotherhood champion his smite range is range 6". In a pure GK army he will never be in the right place at the right time but in an IG army. They are probably coming to you. Not to mention he fights again when he dies. I never said he was the best choice. He is a counter charger - good for heroic interventions because next turn you will absolutely be able to use your smite. Probably the best choice against harliquens/wracks/grots/clearing out kabalites and infantry squads. Hard to believe the hatred the guy gets. Considering every GK smites for 1 mortal - he probably can't smite until the next turn but then hes got a d6 smite. d6 smite is awesome even at 3".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Crowe is never a good choice for anything other than "What is possibly the worst model in the codex?" He is cheap and he proves it by having a named weapon that isn't even as good as a normal nemesis weapon. He also can't use a normal smite (his has to be used at 3" or less). He also doesn't have an aura to help other models.

Mathhammer (p9) says that the sword is better than the hammer in most instances and will save you 5 points.

hammer is always better on characters. a 3+ reroll 1 hammer averages 1 less hit and averages 1 or 2 more wounds vs most everything Important. Then it does flat 3 damage compared to d3 and has 1 better AP. The mathhammer on page 9 is for infantry with 1 attack base.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/09/11 23:06:49


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




You could also just get a regular Champ with a better weapon, and choose yourself a better Warlord trait and/or Relic.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




How successful has it been to use Astral Aim outside the shooting phase? Any successful use for targeting for psychic powers or any other cheese?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




shane_hawley wrote:
How successful has it been to use Astral Aim outside the shooting phase? Any successful use for targeting for psychic powers or any other cheese?


I'm not even sure you can do that. You don't target things in the psychic phase (you pick a unit or model etc) and the power doesn't make things count as visible, which is a requirement for most powers.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Astral aim is probably best used on whatever target you use your psibolt ammo or the other one that works on heavy cannons. The ignore cover combined with ap-1 granted by the stratagem are going to produce a lot of damage. Usually ive used it on GMDK or 10 man strike squads to shoot a unit in cover. Your weapons typical don't have great range so the ignore LOS aspect is not very useful. For a LR or a ven dread it can also be useful. I am usually not including those things though for GK so I can't really comment on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You could also just get a regular Champ with a better weapon, and choose yourself a better Warlord trait and/or Relic.

Crowe doesn't need a relic and your warlord trait is ALWAYS going to be reroll charges - on something else. Usually on a GMDK. Relic will likely be your banner d6 smite or the halberd relic - which is better on a brother captain. I am not saying he is amazing. Just that he is cheap and can be useful. I think hes better than a brotherhood champ for example - d6 smite will outdamage the chapion alone. He's reroll all hits and wounds trash weapon that gets additional attacks per wound can be invaluable vs trash units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/13 03:00:07


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Xenomancers wrote:
Astral aim is probably best used on whatever target you use your psibolt ammo or the other one that works on heavy cannons. The ignore cover combined with ap-1 granted by the stratagem are going to produce a lot of damage. Usually ive used it on GMDK or 10 man strike squads to shoot a unit in cover. Your weapons typical don't have great range so the ignore LOS aspect is not very useful. For a LR or a ven dread it can also be useful. I am usually not including those things though for GK so I can't really comment on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You could also just get a regular Champ with a better weapon, and choose yourself a better Warlord trait and/or Relic.

Crowe doesn't need a relic and your warlord trait is ALWAYS going to be reroll charges - on something else. Usually on a GMDK. Relic will likely be your banner d6 smite or the halberd relic - which is better on a brother captain. I am not saying he is amazing. Just that he is cheap and can be useful. I think hes better than a brotherhood champ for example - d6 smite will outdamage the chapion alone. He's reroll all hits and wounds trash weapon that gets additional attacks per wound can be invaluable vs trash units.

See, none of that makes any sense.
1. It doesn't matter if you're only ever choosing a single Warlord trait. You're talking about taking a cheap HQ and making it a Warlord, so you're going to want to reroll your charges. Getting a +1 to wound can just be done via Hammerhand if entirely necessary. Usually? You won't charge with Crowe against something you need a +1 to wound against.
2. Crowe doesn't need a relic? He has no offensive output against anything tougher than Infantry! Meanwhile, you get basically two Relics with the Champion, which is either the super Storm Bolter (since you're the one that cares about hitting those trash units so bad, even though the army has Storm Bolters out the wazoo), but more importantly access to FNP.
3. Now you're defending the trash Smite he and Purifiers have? Now you've lost any credibility you've had.

Compare to even just buying a Purifier squad, which is more durable vs several weapons for only 15 more points and has several more attacks (10 with all Falcions and something else on the Sergeant) and several more Storm Bolter shots (for once again those Infantry units you care so much about).

For someone that complains about how Marines perform, you'd think you'd have better insight on the singular worst Marine army right now. That's about all thrown out the window with you defending Crowe AND the his/the Purifier smite.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Crowe is never a good choice for anything other than "What is possibly the worst model in the codex?" He is cheap and he proves it by having a named weapon that isn't even as good as a normal nemesis weapon. He also can't use a normal smite (his has to be used at 3" or less). He also doesn't have an aura to help other models.

Mathhammer (p9) says that the sword is better than the hammer in most instances and will save you 5 points.


Interesting. I'm not expert on GK's having played vs them twice. One of those times I faced Crowe. What I remembered is that the darn guy wrecked one of my squads alone AFTER I killed him by spending ~twice his point values to do so(and got totally wrecked in it needing strategem to keep casualties small enough to have semi useful squad left. Mostly on virtue of nob).

Didn't know he was considered bad. Lack of aura biggest issue?

(note I pretty much know only his name and what happened in that game. I was expecting to run over one lone marine completely surrounded. Well I did but did not expect to virtually lose a squad that cost 50% more than he did when I got perfect situation for me! As it is had he got the charge(taking casualties from front helped as his charge range was too far) I would have lost squad and he would still have been alive ready to kill yet another. Albeit orks might be target Crowe is at his best. I would have been in less of a issue vs him with my Imperium army as I could shoot him instead)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/13 09:32:39


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Implaccable Grey Knight Paladin




San Diego, CA

tneva82 wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Crowe is never a good choice for anything other than "What is possibly the worst model in the codex?" He is cheap and he proves it by having a named weapon that isn't even as good as a normal nemesis weapon. He also can't use a normal smite (his has to be used at 3" or less). He also doesn't have an aura to help other models.

Mathhammer (p9) says that the sword is better than the hammer in most instances and will save you 5 points.


Interesting. I'm not expert on GK's having played vs them twice. One of those times I faced Crowe. What I remembered is that the darn guy wrecked one of my squads alone AFTER I killed him by spending ~twice his point values to do so(and got totally wrecked in it needing strategem to keep casualties small enough to have semi useful squad left. Mostly on virtue of nob).

Didn't know he was considered bad. Lack of aura biggest issue?

(note I pretty much know only his name and what happened in that game. I was expecting to run over one lone marine completely surrounded. Well I did but did not expect to virtually lose a squad that cost 50% more than he did when I got perfect situation for me! As it is had he got the charge(taking casualties from front helped as his charge range was too far) I would have lost squad and he would still have been alive ready to kill yet another. Albeit orks might be target Crowe is at his best. I would have been in less of a issue vs him with my Imperium army as I could shoot him instead)

Orks are indeed the best possible for Crowe.
Crowe is bad because 1) he can’t deepstrike, 2) his weapon is S4 and has no AP and 3) he is less effective other options. He has 5 attacks base which can generate an additional attack on a successful wound, for a max of 10. He can re-roll hits and wounds so on the surface it seems ok, but at S4 AP0 the damage is negligible (~1.67 unsaved MEQ wounds). And since he can’t deepstrike he’s not making it into combat, especially when the rest of the army is teleporting. Finally for his cost any of the power-armored squads will out perform him simply due to the AP of their CC weapons and extra storm bolter shots...his lack of an aura does mean that is the best metric for judging him. In an army where the cheapest possible battalion is 545 points (and that has bad HQ choices) we have to be pretty efficient.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Astral aim is probably best used on whatever target you use your psibolt ammo or the other one that works on heavy cannons. The ignore cover combined with ap-1 granted by the stratagem are going to produce a lot of damage. Usually ive used it on GMDK or 10 man strike squads to shoot a unit in cover. Your weapons typical don't have great range so the ignore LOS aspect is not very useful. For a LR or a ven dread it can also be useful. I am usually not including those things though for GK so I can't really comment on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You could also just get a regular Champ with a better weapon, and choose yourself a better Warlord trait and/or Relic.

Crowe doesn't need a relic and your warlord trait is ALWAYS going to be reroll charges - on something else. Usually on a GMDK. Relic will likely be your banner d6 smite or the halberd relic - which is better on a brother captain. I am not saying he is amazing. Just that he is cheap and can be useful. I think hes better than a brotherhood champ for example - d6 smite will outdamage the chapion alone. He's reroll all hits and wounds trash weapon that gets additional attacks per wound can be invaluable vs trash units.

See, none of that makes any sense.
1. It doesn't matter if you're only ever choosing a single Warlord trait. You're talking about taking a cheap HQ and making it a Warlord, so you're going to want to reroll your charges. Getting a +1 to wound can just be done via Hammerhand if entirely necessary. Usually? You won't charge with Crowe against something you need a +1 to wound against.
2. Crowe doesn't need a relic? He has no offensive output against anything tougher than Infantry! Meanwhile, you get basically two Relics with the Champion, which is either the super Storm Bolter (since you're the one that cares about hitting those trash units so bad, even though the army has Storm Bolters out the wazoo), but more importantly access to FNP.
3. Now you're defending the trash Smite he and Purifiers have? Now you've lost any credibility you've had.

Compare to even just buying a Purifier squad, which is more durable vs several weapons for only 15 more points and has several more attacks (10 with all Falcions and something else on the Sergeant) and several more Storm Bolter shots (for once again those Infantry units you care so much about).

For someone that complains about how Marines perform, you'd think you'd have better insight on the singular worst Marine army right now. That's about all thrown out the window with you defending Crowe AND the his/the Purifier smite.

d6 smite isn't 0 offensive output. It is quite simply - more average damage per point than any other character. You just have to get him in the right place. Which is not hard to do if you are an IG gun line and they are coming to you. Stop thinking so one dimentionally.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




In that case I might as well just have used a defensive squad of Purifiers, which would give me more shots against those charges too. Then just run the usual Dreadmaster.


CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch




Xenomancer - you keep saying "if used with an IG army", this is the GK tactic thread therefore the presumption is that a person wants to use a mono GK army.

That aside you can do better than Crowe for the points invested in him. For 1 point more you can get a squad of 6 strike members all with storm bolters and falchions. That nets you 24 shots and 13 melee attacks. Plus you may be able to smite twice which means that while you lose, on average, 1.5 damage via smite you'll more than make it up in wounds from your other weapons and you'll have more wounds.

I think most people would agree that you would be better off spending a few extra points for Brother-Captain than Crowe (152 for Capt w bolter vs 125 for Crowe).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/13 17:58:09


 
   
 
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