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I was thinking a Slaanesh Jump Pack Lord with the Cursed Crozius, Intoxicating Elixir and Exalted Champion warlord trait. That would make for quite a powerful melee unit. A friendly sorceror would try and cast Diabolic Strength on him when given the opportunity for even more fun.
saint_red wrote: I was thinking a Slaanesh Jump Pack Lord with the Cursed Crozius, Intoxicating Elixir and Exalted Champion warlord trait. That would make for quite a powerful melee unit. A friendly sorceror would try and cast Diabolic Strength on him when given the opportunity for even more fun.
You can only have one artifact on a given character.
stormcraft wrote: Lord of Skulls in a Deamon List is a waste imho because you dont hace the deamonforge stratagem wich is incredible effective on him.
Obliterators are really good now, they can put out a lot of hurt for 200pts and with 24" range you can drop them in a ruin safely and start hammering on your opponents vehicles or heavy infantry in his backfield. Just dont get caught in melee too fast.
If he's in a super heavy detachment, he unlocks the strategems and can use then IIRC
Eldenfirefly wrote: That doesn't sound right somehow. Doesn't that mean that all Chaos daemon units are obsec? Because they all have chaos faction keyword and they all have daemon keyword...
just hit on making my iron warrior sorcerer (who i'm taking alpha legion trait for) the mark of tzeentch on a disc to give mark of tzeentch rhino a 5++ and said rhino is carrying slaanesh havocs that i'll cmd pts to fire twice...
Eldenfirefly wrote: That doesn't sound right somehow. Doesn't that mean that all Chaos daemon units are obsec? Because they all have chaos faction keyword and they all have daemon keyword...
Only TROOPS
But all the daemon engines are not troops ah. LOS is a super heavy. The rest are heavy support.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rvd1ofakind wrote: Hi, I'm here from the Daemons thread. Now that we can take Daemon engines and get ObSec, how are these 4 ranged damage wise:
1. Defiler
2. Obliterators
3. Forgefiens
4. Lord of skulls ()
Oh, you are just asking how is their damage range wise and not saying that these 4 will become obsec. lol I misunderstood. lol Obliterators are the most fierce. But Lord of skulls is decent too, especially with the demonforge strategem (really sick). Next is probably forgefiends and then defilers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/18 10:09:59
saint_red wrote: 6 plasma Chosen is the contents of the Dreadclaw right? What HQs did you take with it and did you manage to do any summoning with them? I'm still wondering whether it's the way to go for me.
I took standard Chaos Lord & Warptime-Prescience Sorcerer. Didn't get to cast anything as rolling as abysmal, didn't get to summon anything due to length of game, shooting was poor too - in fact, the only thing I achieved was dropping bodies around an objective. Still, that was enough.
luke1705 wrote: screening scout units or the like basically kills turn 1 deep strike.
What about if we bring some Nurglings? At the very least they can ensure one dropzone, might be broadcasting it a bit but they're an option and pretty cheap at that
saint_red wrote: I was thinking a Slaanesh Jump Pack Lord with the Cursed Crozius, Intoxicating Elixir and Exalted Champion warlord trait. That would make for quite a powerful melee unit. A friendly sorceror would try and cast Diabolic Strength on him when given the opportunity for even more fun.
You can only have one artifact on a given character.
Damn I had a sneaky suspicion that was the case but was at work and couldn't double check. I think it will still be a solid choice though, just drop Intoxicating Elixir and go from there. If you chuck Diabolic Strength on him he'll have no trouble at all beating people up. Since he doesn't need to be MoS you could also give him MoT and give him +1 invuln when he's in the thick of it.
what do you think is the best "range-support" unit for killing knight, landraider etc? I pretty like the laser-Predator and the Hellbrute with rocket / laser
what do you think is the best "range-support" unit for killing knight, landraider etc? I pretty like the laser-Predator and the Hellbrute with rocket / laser
In my last game it was another landraider.
But I would say lascannon/ML havocs over a helbrute as brutes can be torn up but knights and LRs. Havocs require many more shots to take out.
Blastmasters also work as they are d3 shot missile launchers.
Also the upgraded Oblits can be nasty with their 12 shots if you roll well.
And of course anything you can double shoot with slaanesh and heavy weapons. Plasma double tap termis can do a lot overcharged with prescience.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/18 14:19:30
Morskul wrote: What would you all say is the most effective loadout for a Terminator Lord, Terminator Librarian, and 5 man Terminator squad that are designed to deep strike, double shoot and then get warp timed into CC on turn one?
I was thinking of 5 combiplasma, 3 axes and 2 chainfists on the Termies but no idea about the characters. Any thoughts? Legion will be Iron Warriors and they'll have the Mark of Slaanesh so they can use the double shooty strategem.
10 man Terminator squad is the best all with combi plasma and 1 lightning claw you can give the champ a chainfist if you want, basically deep strike them in prescience, warptime, leaving 1 guy slightly behind so he receives the lord buff for the squad double tap at two separate units charge a 3rd.
Rest of the army should be safe for a turn, since the opponent will generally try and deal with the terminators, if they survive double tap twice again, if they didn't start using the slaanesh stratagem on oblits.
I wonder how long this sort of list will work, before people start bringing 3 units of SM scouts or the equivalent and creating a giant "no deepstriking" bubble around their whole army. And if they do that, do you just hold your 720+ point termy/sorc/lord bomb until a target opens up and fight 2000points with 1300, or drop in the first turn and kill some scouts?
Just bring rapier batteries with quad heavy bolters. A three gun emplacement tosses out 36 s5 -1 shots and can be given the mark of slaanesh so you can fire twice. Pretty sure that takes care of any PITA scouts real fast and for real cheap.
A couple things to point out:
1) you can't shoot the rapiers twice. They are vehicles and the crewmen don't technically "fire" them. They just stand next to them and watch
2) screening scout units or the like basically kills turn 1 deep strike. You could wait to bring your termies in, but still getting in double tap range of something that matters means that your opponent screwed up. Imo, it's not a viable competitive strategy. And that's without even considering how expensive the squad is. And that's not just me theorycrafting. I brought 10 terminators to a competitive RTT and definitely felt that they were the weak link in my list (was an otherwise extremely competitive list, so don't think I'm downing on them. I just think there are better ways to spend the points because a good opponent can mitigate their effects).
Sure, but you could wait until turn 2 or 3 you say! Ok. How do you feel about playing 500+ points down on your opponent for half of the game? Like your chances of victory? Me neither
Good catch on the rapiers itself lacking the infantry keyword, I missed that. Either way I still don't see how anyone can complain, actually I am glad they can't fire twice as I was starting to feel like they were too strong for regular use. They are insanely cheap and will mulch any screening units, I made some using kataphron tracks and forgefiend hades autocanons, you can also use taurox tracks which are fairly cheap on ebay. I managed to build 6, with a 48" range I am confident no screens will even be worth taking against my armies, it pours out 72 shots that you can further buff with characters, I'd like to see who is wasting points when they try to screen you out with scouts.
As to your second point, I really don't agree with you at all. I have played null deploy armies in every edition and it was never a problem, you build your list to do it. You don't build a normal list and then jam a bunch of points in reserve, you take long range durable units for your base and then load up on units that crush when they deploy from reserve. Waiting until turn two is not an issue and in every other edition was the earliest you COULD arrive. As to your condescending attitude at your close? Lets try to work together and when we hit heads, let the other respond for themselves rather then acting like we already know better.
Kuklops wrote: A Decimator with C-beam cannons. 2 at 48"+ with 2 c-beams will strip a super heavy nicely.
Lascannon havocs in a bunker with MoS.
I am in love with decimators only I am eyeing the soulburner petards, a desimator with two only costs 150 and it shoots assault 4d3 shots that cause mortal wounds on hits with a 24" range and he moves 10" They also have the hellbrute keyword after the FAQ meaning you can fire frenzy with them, thats an average of 16 shots if you do from one.
Kuklops wrote: A Decimator with C-beam cannons. 2 at 48"+ with 2 c-beams will strip a super heavy nicely.
Lascannon havocs in a bunker with MoS.
I am in love with decimators only I am eyeing the soulburner petards, a desimator with two only costs 150 and it shoots assault 4d3 shots that cause mortal wounds on hits with a 24" range and he moves 10" They also have the hellbrute keyword after the FAQ meaning you can fire frenzy with them, thats an average of 16 shots if you do from one.
Soulburners got a price increase to like 60 apiece in the Forgeworld FAQ, so I'm thinking you're pretty far off about them being 150 points.
Kuklops wrote: A Decimator with C-beam cannons. 2 at 48"+ with 2 c-beams will strip a super heavy nicely.
Lascannon havocs in a bunker with MoS.
I am in love with decimators only I am eyeing the soulburner petards, a desimator with two only costs 150 and it shoots assault 4d3 shots that cause mortal wounds on hits with a 24" range and he moves 10" They also have the hellbrute keyword after the FAQ meaning you can fire frenzy with them, thats an average of 16 shots if you do from one.
Soulburners got a price increase to like 60 apiece in the Forgeworld FAQ, so I'm thinking you're pretty far off about them being 150 points.
Yeah, they're 210 now. Also, the stratagem is not helbrute keyword but just helbrutes, if it was the keyword imagine what a Leviathan with grav bombards or burcher cannon arrays could do!
That said they're top units. I run 2 marked Tzeentch and Alpha Legion with bog standard butcher cannons. They do very well stood next to the Changeling.
Morskul wrote: What would you all say is the most effective loadout for a Terminator Lord, Terminator Librarian, and 5 man Terminator squad that are designed to deep strike, double shoot and then get warp timed into CC on turn one?
I was thinking of 5 combiplasma, 3 axes and 2 chainfists on the Termies but no idea about the characters. Any thoughts? Legion will be Iron Warriors and they'll have the Mark of Slaanesh so they can use the double shooty strategem.
10 man Terminator squad is the best all with combi plasma and 1 lightning claw you can give the champ a chainfist if you want, basically deep strike them in prescience, warptime, leaving 1 guy slightly behind so he receives the lord buff for the squad double tap at two separate units charge a 3rd.
Rest of the army should be safe for a turn, since the opponent will generally try and deal with the terminators, if they survive double tap twice again, if they didn't start using the slaanesh stratagem on oblits.
I wonder how long this sort of list will work, before people start bringing 3 units of SM scouts or the equivalent and creating a giant "no deepstriking" bubble around their whole army. And if they do that, do you just hold your 720+ point termy/sorc/lord bomb until a target opens up and fight 2000points with 1300, or drop in the first turn and kill some scouts?
Just bring rapier batteries with quad heavy bolters. A three gun emplacement tosses out 36 s5 -1 shots and can be given the mark of slaanesh so you can fire twice. Pretty sure that takes care of any PITA scouts real fast and for real cheap.
A couple things to point out:
1) you can't shoot the rapiers twice. They are vehicles and the crewmen don't technically "fire" them. They just stand next to them and watch
2) screening scout units or the like basically kills turn 1 deep strike. You could wait to bring your termies in, but still getting in double tap range of something that matters means that your opponent screwed up. Imo, it's not a viable competitive strategy. And that's without even considering how expensive the squad is. And that's not just me theorycrafting. I brought 10 terminators to a competitive RTT and definitely felt that they were the weak link in my list (was an otherwise extremely competitive list, so don't think I'm downing on them. I just think there are better ways to spend the points because a good opponent can mitigate their effects).
Sure, but you could wait until turn 2 or 3 you say! Ok. How do you feel about playing 500+ points down on your opponent for half of the game? Like your chances of victory? Me neither
There's a much easier way to ensure a landing zone. If you're taking a detachment of Daemons with your CSM, take a single unit of Nurglings. Always deploy your "infiltrator" unit first, and you've just created a denial zone for your opponents own infiltrators/deepstrikers.
Kuklops wrote: A Decimator with C-beam cannons. 2 at 48"+ with 2 c-beams will strip a super heavy nicely.
Lascannon havocs in a bunker with MoS.
I am in love with decimators only I am eyeing the soulburner petards, a desimator with two only costs 150 and it shoots assault 4d3 shots that cause mortal wounds on hits with a 24" range and he moves 10" They also have the hellbrute keyword after the FAQ meaning you can fire frenzy with them, thats an average of 16 shots if you do from one.
Soulburners got a price increase to like 60 apiece in the Forgeworld FAQ, so I'm thinking you're pretty far off about them being 150 points.
Missed that, hmmm still super tempting though, at least running one with that load out. It's a threat that can't be ignored, maybe mark it Tzeentch and increase it's invuln or run the changeling near it.
Kuklops wrote: A Decimator with C-beam cannons. 2 at 48"+ with 2 c-beams will strip a super heavy nicely.
Lascannon havocs in a bunker with MoS.
I am in love with decimators only I am eyeing the soulburner petards, a desimator with two only costs 150 and it shoots assault 4d3 shots that cause mortal wounds on hits with a 24" range and he moves 10" They also have the hellbrute keyword after the FAQ meaning you can fire frenzy with them, thats an average of 16 shots if you do from one.
Soulburners got a price increase to like 60 apiece in the Forgeworld FAQ, so I'm thinking you're pretty far off about them being 150 points.
Missed that, hmmm still super tempting though, at least running one with that load out. It's a threat that can't be ignored, maybe mark it Tzeentch and increase it's invuln or run the changeling near it.
Also, decimators,did not get the Helbrute keyword. Just contemptors, deredeos and leviathans.
Well I can't say I am too upset with how balance is turning out. Even FW units seem in line after accounting for the FAQ (seriously though, wtfFW the book is a couple weeks old and so much sh*t is wrong) xome units are definitely very strong though, I still think rapiers and the scorpius are a bit on the strong side but I am sure more playing will show their weaknesses.
I fething love decimators still although with the helbrute being the only walker to have fire frenzy I am liking him more again. A helbrute with a twin las canon is a very solid choice. 1CP gets you 4 shots, situational though since it's the closest target.
I still feel the edge on elite walkers is in the decimators court though. He may not get to fire frenzy but he can demonforge which is also quite strong. He can also be repaired which is odd when contemptors cannot lol.
I haven't decided what roll is best for them, I like dual shooting weapons but I get this feeling having a combat weapon isn't a bad thing to keep things out of your back lines. Thats why I don't care for the C-beamer since he is total trash as soon as something gets to your deployment. That said the seige claw is kind of expensive. I am having a magnetizing nightmare in regard to my walkers to say the least lol.
I was thinking Soul Burner Petards for the Decimators (Black Legion, black is easy to paint) as they can move and advance to fire them, and dropping Abaddon in for the shooting rerolls.
I sure thought they got the Helbrute keyword, I guess no riding in my Dreadclaws :(
I knew Cultists were good, but I hadn't actually compared them to Conscripts before now.
A Cultist buffed by a Dark Apostle and an Exalted Champion expects to do 80% more wounds to T4 than a FRFSRF Conscript when they each shoot and charge. Of course, mostly Conscripts aren't charging and much of the squad will be out of rapid-fire range, whereas Alpha Legion Cultists are going to deploy in a tight block right in front of the enemy with just a small daisy chain going back to the buff characters. Cultists put out 35% more damage per point than even on-paper Conscripts, and in practice they put out hugely more.
If 30 of your 40 Cultists get to shoot and fight, they expect to kill 10 MEQs. Unless these are naked tacticals, the squad has made its points back already.
Their one big weakness is morale. The Apostle helps with this a little, but it's still the case that if someone can kill 25 of them, the other 15 will be running. Abaddon obviously handles this, but he's very expensive and you probably don't want to deploy him on the board. On the other hand, your opponent faces the same kind of dilemma that Necrons present -- if you count on morale to kill the squad, and at least one model doesn't run (which 2 CP would guarantee), a whole bunch might come back next turn.
Was hoping to use Huron for that but they switched out his morale bubble :(
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
Dionysodorus wrote: I knew Cultists were good, but I hadn't actually compared them to Conscripts before now.
A Cultist buffed by a Dark Apostle and an Exalted Champion expects to do 80% more wounds to T4 than a FRFSRF Conscript when they each shoot and charge. Of course, mostly Conscripts aren't charging and much of the squad will be out of rapid-fire range, whereas Alpha Legion Cultists are going to deploy in a tight block right in front of the enemy with just a small daisy chain going back to the buff characters. Cultists put out 35% more damage per point than even on-paper Conscripts, and in practice they put out hugely more.
If 30 of your 40 Cultists get to shoot and fight, they expect to kill 10 MEQs. Unless these are naked tacticals, the squad has made its points back already.
Their one big weakness is morale. The Apostle helps with this a little, but it's still the case that if someone can kill 25 of them, the other 15 will be running. Abaddon obviously handles this, but he's very expensive and you probably don't want to deploy him on the board. On the other hand, your opponent faces the same kind of dilemma that Necrons present -- if you count on morale to kill the squad, and at least one model doesn't run (which 2 CP would guarantee), a whole bunch might come back next turn.
The Long War podcast pointed out today that they can come back in on ANY table edge for the 2CP strategem... which after reading the codex, I agree with that means that if your opponent doesn't happen to kill them all, 2 CPs, and all 40 show back up, in your opponent's deployment zone. I have ordered a lot of cultists...
Dionysodorus wrote: I knew Cultists were good, but I hadn't actually compared them to Conscripts before now.
A Cultist buffed by a Dark Apostle and an Exalted Champion expects to do 80% more wounds to T4 than a FRFSRF Conscript when they each shoot and charge. Of course, mostly Conscripts aren't charging and much of the squad will be out of rapid-fire range, whereas Alpha Legion Cultists are going to deploy in a tight block right in front of the enemy with just a small daisy chain going back to the buff characters. Cultists put out 35% more damage per point than even on-paper Conscripts, and in practice they put out hugely more.
If 30 of your 40 Cultists get to shoot and fight, they expect to kill 10 MEQs. Unless these are naked tacticals, the squad has made its points back already.
Their one big weakness is morale. The Apostle helps with this a little, but it's still the case that if someone can kill 25 of them, the other 15 will be running. Abaddon obviously handles this, but he's very expensive and you probably don't want to deploy him on the board. On the other hand, your opponent faces the same kind of dilemma that Necrons present -- if you count on morale to kill the squad, and at least one model doesn't run (which 2 CP would guarantee), a whole bunch might come back next turn.
The Long War podcast pointed out today that they can come back in on ANY table edge for the 2CP strategem... which after reading the codex, I agree with that means that if your opponent doesn't happen to kill them all, 2 CPs, and all 40 show back up, in your opponent's deployment zone. I have ordered a lot of cultists...
I've been thinking about trying this almost purely as a buffer against Smite. And if they don't all die, I'll just bring all of them back into the game in my opponent's DZ. This could get trolltastic very fast as you could then, after a bunch of them get shot/run off again, you could then make them reappear at full strength again. Granted, they are just cultists, but they still could control an objective thanks to sheer body count and Objective Secured. I've got like 40 cultist models, but is it enough...?
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
Cultist spam looks pretty cool. The fact that they can be recycled may limit their use as a skirmish screen, though - when forty of them descend on the enemy, they'll probably be expecting us to rinse and repeat if they kill most of them. So perhaps we should be thinking of ways to make them an inviting target, without getting them all killed? And have a plan B for when the enemy focus on them and remove the threat of recycling?
I've recently finished a Dreadclaw and this weekend should finish a Hellforged Predator with 5D6 of flame attacks, I'm reflecting on how similar their capabilities are yet how widely they differ.
Dreadclaw obviously delivers some plasma Chosen or zerks or possessed into a drop zone. If it gets Warptimed, it can also hit many units, including bubble wrapped characters. That suggests a couple of synergies - some Marauder Snipers and Infernal Gaze could collide to take out a support character. When taking a couple of casualties from many units, Raptors with Despair could make their Morale checks pile on the pressure. Night Lords especially will like this.
Whilst the Predator can pose a similar threat, its ability to pile on the flame on a single unit makes it feel like more of a counter attack model. It'll be a worry for deep strikers, it's going to make Deathleaper and Culexi think twice, and if a unit is melee oriented it'll really rain on their parade. Sadly it's quite overcosted at present, relative to the discounted Codex Predator. Though it can sit with a Predator Annihilator and Destructor and give them access to Killshot, right? Or does that need an FAQ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/19 02:46:22
After reading the last few pages, I'm thinking that i should shop an arm off my termies with twin claws and give them combi weapons, get a 3rd obliterator to make a squad (have 2 old metal ones) and stock up on cultists. A few units of 20-30 alpa cultists screening some berzerkes and/or termies with some sorcerers in deep strike, with some oblits, noise marines + las brute in the back, and some mobile units running around like a helldrake or some bikers sounds fun and strong if used properly, and you can always change how/who you infiltrate with if at all
Lets try to work together and when we hit heads, let the other respond for themselves rather then acting like we already know better.
They also have the hellbrute keyword after the 
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
Night Lord XIII Company: 6,600 Points, 12W-4L
Skaven Cheese-stealer Renegade Cult: 2,000 points, 0-0
Warboss Spine Squisha's Ork Warband: 3,000 Points, 1W-3L
Carcharadons Astra: 2000 Points, 11-2
~15000 Astra Militarum: 
~1900 | Imperial Knights: 
~2000 | Sisters of Battle: 
~3500 | Leagues of Votann: 