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I've been at GW HQ in Nottingham all weekend, and I know quite a few of the staff there. I've had it confirmed, in no uncertain terms.... There is NO plastic Ork Stompa kit for Appocolypse release, or the Ork Codex release. The picture of the two stompas that has been floating around, they are scratch build. The reasons are:

• The model is too complex for making it from a plastic mould.
• The model is too specific to one army, and GW would not sell enough of the models to make the cost of producing the plastic moulds viable.
• Orks can use the Baneblade.
• Most Ork players would prefere to scratch build their own.

Other Stuff

• Also, the Hellhammer Tank (Baneblade variant which can be made from the plastic kit) has a flamer template for its main weapon. Its the same shape as the flamer template, but its about 25cm long !
• GW are aiming to release Codex Demonica within a year of Codex CSM. The codex Demonica will contain more information about the CSM Legions, and how to ally them with a demon army.

*Waits for complaints to arise again*

Most ork players would prefer to scratch build their own because the ork model range has been so badly filled out and treated that at this stage the only players left are those who like scratch building.
Man, circular logic for the win.
The other reasons are decent though, I accept them.

Posted By TheSecretSquig on 09/02/2007 2:35 PM

I've been at GW HQ in Nottingham all weekend, and I know quite a few of the staff there. I've had it confirmed, in no uncertain terms.... There is NO plastic Ork Stompa kit for Appocolypse release, or the Ork Codex release. The picture of the two stompas that has been floating around, they are scratch build. The reasons are:.

• The model is too complex for making it from a plastic mould.
• The model is too specific to one army, and GW would not sell enough of the models to make the cost of producing the plastic moulds viable.
• Orks can use the Baneblade.
• Most Ork players would prefere to scratch build their own.

Too complex for making it from a plastic mould?  Nonsense.  Too complex for using a 3D computer rendering program, maybe.

The model is too specific to one army- I call shenanigans on this one.  By that logic, GW would never have made the Monolith or the Devilfish, either.

Orks can use the Baneblade.  So what?  Orks wouldn't want giant mechanical effigies of their gods rampaging through a city, because they can steal a really big tank?  Some faulty logic at work there.

Most Ork players would prefer to scratchbuild their own.  Since when?  Relatively few people like to scratchbuild at all.  I bet most Ork players would sell their blood, or somebody's blood,  in order to buy a nifty plastic stompa kit. 

 

Now, I'm not saying you are incorrect, or that the staff were lying to you, or anything.  I've never even been to a GW store, let alone the HQ.  I'm just saying that the reasons given are bollocks.

I doubt it's even circular logic Da Boss. I believe they just made up the idea that ork players would prefer to scratchbuild a stompa. Its not like i've seen any surveys on the subject, so at best their sample group would not be much bigger than the studio.

I agree on the second and third points though (i don't know enough about the plastic mould process or their stompa designs to comment on the first)

Posted By fellblade on 09/02/2007 5:27 PM

The model is too specific to one army- I call shenanigans on this one.  By that logic, GW would never have made the Monolith or the Devilfish, either.

The stompa would be much larger than the Devilfish or even the monolith.  Only the baneblade is comparable, and they are allowing it as an option to all imperial armies (guard, inquisition, umpteen billion marine armies), chaos and orks  to make it comercially viable. The stompa, on the other hand, would be almost certainly limited to ork players.

I think that all four, half baked reasons actually add up to a really good reason not to make the kit, from GW's persepctive. They're basically saying:
1) it'd be hard, and we prefer the easy money that the baneblade kit, and a valkyrie/t-hawk/drop pod would be easier than the stompa
2) it would be the largest plastic kit for no more than 10% of the audience, compared to 85% for the baneblade.
3) that 85% already includes Orks, thus giving them tons of super heavy options
4) Ork players are pretty notorious for converting/scratchbuilding, and while a lot of that has been by necessity, I'm guessing if the average player didn't like the looks of the model, they'll still be building their own.

I'm not saying you can't wish GW wouldn't make the kit, but I don't think you can ignore the compelling reasons not to.

So a bunch of people sitting around a GW office with access to all kinds of free bitz feel that most people would prefer to scratch build a 12 inch tall ork vehicle? Now that is bizzare...... never could have seen that coming have they realized the sky is blue yet too?

I will accept the other reasons as making sense though.

Posted By ShumaGorath on 09/02/2007 2:45 PM

GW are aiming to release Codex Demonica within a year of Codex CSM. The codex Demonica will contain more information about the CSM Legions, and how to ally them with a demon army.

*Waits for complaints to arise again*

Since this would make many currently jilted Traitor Legion players happy, I'm wondering why this would cause the complaining to arise?

If true, this is good news.

Cos people dont need much reason to complain here. The complaints will proabbaly be how they will nerf this codex when its made or it will be unbalanced or even its not fluffy enough.

Posted By brettz123 on 09/02/2007 7:25 PM
So a bunch of people sitting around a GW office with access to all kinds of free bitz feel that most people would prefer to scratch build a 12 inch tall ork vehicle? Now that is bizzare...... never could have seen that coming have they realized the sky is blue yet too?

I will accept the other reasons as making sense though.

I remember when the Defiler kit was finally released, nobody who had scratchbuilt one regretted it.  While it's sheer utility meant they sold a lot of kits, I think a lot of chaos players either built their own or extensively converted the kit.

GW's track record with very large models outside of their current ranges are mixed.  For every Mumak there's a Monolith, for every Giant there's a Defiler.  The baneblade is a no brainer, with nearly every aspect already designed (epic, armorcast, and FW all made multiple kits to pull inspiration from.)

I think that there is a high chance that whatever kit they had made for the stompa would be ridiculed.

Posted By ShumaGorath on 09/02/2007 2:45 PM

GW are aiming to release Codex Demonica within a year of Codex CSM. The codex Demonica will contain more information about the CSM Legions, and how to ally them with a demon army.

*Waits for complaints to arise again*

So it's already pushed back from the rumoured spring/summer release to "within a year."  Interesting.

Given the development window (stuff is usually down 6 months or more before release, IIRC), this means there's either not a lot of new models for them, or the models are done/nearly done, they're just taking more time to broaden the appeal of the 'dex.

Personally, I can't wait for Daemonica, though nobody seems sure exactly what's in it.  I've heard everything from all daemons, to LatD, to Legion sub lists, etc.

Maybe it'll be like Codex: Craftworld Eldar....

As much as I dont think there will be a GW stompa model, I have to admit that they also said that there wasnt going to be a plastic baneblade either.

So really, there is no confirmation, because you cant trust GW telling you anything. If they said the sky was blue, I would be skeptical.

oh well, back to my scratchbuild project, as soon as Apocalypse arrives so I know what to arm it with. But here's hoping that some stort of stompa (if not the Apocalypse one) is at least in the new codex and thus playable in normal games.

Posted By Hellfury on 09/02/2007 8:48 PM
So really, there is no confirmation, because you cant trust GW telling you anything. If they said the sky was blue, I would be skeptical.

You'd have good reason to - in Nottingham the sky is grey

I'm not going to cry over this - as long as the orks get some decent new releases along with their codex. A stompa would make a nice addition to the forgeworld catalogue though.

No self respecting Ork Warlord worth thier salt buys a stompa. They build them with the blood, sweat, and squggs of thier will, and drives thier enemies before them is the green tide of the Waaaaagh!

Seriously, though. Orks haven't been given the love, so far, why would the get any now? The reasons are BS, though.

Armorcast made Stompas years ago, and you can still find them on the Ebay. (I have seen them, they are real.) If they can come out with something as tired as spikey marines and pass them off as chaos, then they can get Jervis's kid, Gav to think up some rules for the thing, and let people have the option of making thier own, Stompas and Gargants.
Oh, thats right, options are discouraged now.

Personally, they could easily come out with a landraider with legs.
!@#$ why didn't I think of that!

Posted By TheSecretSquig on 09/02/2007 2:35 PM

GW are aiming to release Codex Demonica within a year of Codex CSM. The codex Demonica will contain more information about the CSM Legions, and how to ally them with a demon army.

Is the word "aim" yours or theirs? I hope it's yours, but I doubt it. That way when the codex doesn't materialise they can say "We never said it would definately be out by now".

To paraphrase a very wise man; "There is no aim. Release, or do not release".

Posted By Grot 6 on 09/03/2007 6:51 AM

Seriously, though. Orks haven't been given the love, so far, why would the get any now? The reasons are BS, though.

Truer words have never been spoken.  Most ork players that build them do it for fun.  I have two but if GW made one I would buy it just to have another not to mention all the bits.  Also who is to say it would be just orks.  Marines might use it as a moble outpost or some other race converting for their needs. 

 

I'm just going to agree with Grot 6 and leave it at that.

Harlequins would use a stompa. They'd run that puppy into the ground, and then buy another one for $200.

Trust me, I'm the last person in the world to defend GW's high prices, but as well as a dedicated hobbyist, I'm also a share holder and take an interest in the business side of things.  Its all about numbers. A high volume 2 part plastic injection mould costs around £45,000 ($90,000). This includes the cost of the protoype moulds and the design time of the mould (just as an insight, the Warhound Titans took Will Haynes 10 months solid to build, I know because I asked him). The Land Raider moulds cost £27,000 each, and that was 10 years ago now, and you needed 4 different moulds for 1 model (one for each sprue). The moulds for GW plastics are more expensive to produce, due to the detail on the parts, and the volume produced, than standard model aircraft moulds.

We don't know yet, but lets assume the Baneblade will need 5 different moulds at £45,000 each (5 different sprues). £225,000 for the total set. GW profit is 50% after all their overheads have been taken into account. So the cost of a Baneblade / Stompa is £30. That £30 has to pay for the 1000's of people who work for GW. Now lets assume only 2.5% of the cost, is to cover the cost of the moulds. Which for a plastics manufacturing company (which GW is) is not unreasonable (in fact its actually on the high side). GW would have to sell 300,000 Baneblades, just to cover the cost of the moulds. In addition to that, think of the cost of the design, planning, marketing (rules and language translations). The Baneblade has taken GW 18 months to get from the first plastic prototype, to being able to build up a big enough stock to release. It takes 6 months to get a codex through print. So six months before print, the models have to have been ready and painted, for the pictures to be taken, and put into the Codex.

Now lets talk more numbers (sorry but this is my day job and I work in Aerospace manufacture). So 18 months ago, GW had to spend £225,000 to produce the moulds (never mind the other associated costs). By the release date, that cost has now risen a further £28,000 alone, due to the cost of borrowing or using that money, to set something up, that your not being paid for until it goes on sale. Thats another 20,000 (almost) Baneblades they now need to sell.

And remember, the numbers I am demonstrating here, are just to cover the cost of the moulds. Nothing else. As a side note, it took GW 7 years to recover the cost of the development of the Leman Russ Tank, as oppossed to 2 years for the Chimera. If you think about it, the Chimera sprues are used for loads of vehicles, wereas the Leman Russ, is well, the Leman Russ.

I have worked in the manufacturing Industry for over 15 years and the numbers above are correct. My only assumptions are on GW's costs, which if you see them as a plastic components company, can't be far wrong. My friends at GW HQ are exactly that, friends first, employees of GW second. Their information is very good, and they've never given me duff information before. All the numbers above are my own assumptions based on my 15 years of experience in the manufacturing bussiness, as I would never ask my friends (nor would they tell me) any financial information.

Now just to cover the moulds we are talking about selling 320,000 Baneblades. Not an unreasonable thought when SM, SoB, Imp G, Orks, CSM, Tau Auxil, LatD armies can all use it. The Stompa would need at least 7 sprues. With the cost of that money we are looking at having to sell 500,000 Stompa kits to Ork players alone. And each year you've not sold enough to break even, you got to sell more, because the cost of the money you used, is costing money with inflation.

Posted By TheSecretSquig on 09/04/2007 2:28 AM

Now just to cover the moulds we are talking about selling 320,000 Baneblades. Not an unreasonable thought when SM, SoB, Imp G, Orks, CSM, Tau Auxil, LatD armies can all use it. The Stompa would need at least 7 sprues. With the cost of that money we are looking at having to sell 500,000 Stompa kits to Ork players alone. And each year you've not sold enough to break even, you got to sell more, because the cost of the money you used, is costing money with inflation.

Are you kidding me, you're saying GW has to sale $30.4 million dollars worth of baneblades to breakeven?  I think you need to recheck your assumptions because that makes no sense whatsoever.

GW last annual net sales were $215.5 million dollars.  They're not going to sink 14% of their annual revenue into the cost of a single kit.

As far as the ork stompa, I've not surprised about there not being a stompa.  I thought GW making a plastic stompa was a pipedream.  Now maybe, Forgeworld will make one, but GW--not by a longshot.

Posted By Polonius on 09/02/2007 8:21 PM

I remember when the Defiler kit was finally released, nobody who had scratchbuilt one regretted it.  While it's sheer utility meant they sold a lot of kits, I think a lot of chaos players either built their own or extensively converted the kit.

I really enjoyed seeing the overflow of creativity that happened when the defiler rules were released without an official model to match it.  It was great to see what everyone came up with, and then the actual model hit and even more people converted it, or continued building their own in response, or (gasp) built it stock

So ... are there rules for the stompa in APOC then?  Never heard this confirmed, but if so I look forward to the madness to make it hit the table.

- Salvage

Tazok,

You gotta remember that the Baneblade doesn't have to break even in one year. It just has to break even in a reasonable amount of time. I figure with the Apocalypse push - it ought to make fairly solid inroads towards its breakeven point, with the rest probably coming whenever the IG codex resets.

I know that in my area - a fairly significant number of people are getting at least one, and possbily 3. Yes, I know - the plural of anecdote is *NOT* data, but it leads me to beleive that Baneblades will sell fairly well through the Christmas season.

I also have to say that NO one in my group plays orks currently - so there would be zero Stompa sales if GW made a Stompa model.

Ergo - GW probably made a good call there...

320,000 units to break even is incorrect. Secret squig your numbers are wrong.

Posted By keichi246 on 09/04/2007 6:56 AM
Tazok,

You gotta remember that the Baneblade doesn't have to break even in one year. It just has to break even in a reasonable amount of time. I figure with the Apocalypse push - it ought to make fairly solid inroads towards its breakeven point, with the rest probably coming whenever the IG codex resets.

I know that in my area - a fairly significant number of people are getting at least one, and possbily 3. Yes, I know - the plural of anecdote is *NOT* data, but it leads me to beleive that Baneblades will sell fairly well through the Christmas season.

I also have to say that NO one in my group plays orks currently - so there would be zero Stompa sales if GW made a Stompa model.

Ergo - GW probably made a good call there...

Who said anything about breaking even in a year?  I just put the annual revenue up to give some perspective on how much they'd be investing into a single kit.  The assumptions of 320,000 units to break even is entirely wrong, I'll just leave it at that.

As to zero Stompa sales, I bet if GW did release one, at least someone locally would start playing orks.  GW won't, so it's a mute point, but cool minis drive sales.

Posted By Tazok on 09/04/2007 5:59 AM

Are you kidding me, you're saying GW has to sale $30.4 million dollars worth of baneblades to breakeven?  I think you need to recheck your assumptions because that makes no sense whatsoever.

 

No, I'm saying GW have to sell £30M, which is $15M. Don't confuse your currency's.

Posted By skkipper on 09/04/2007 6:57 AM
320,000 units to break even is incorrect. Secret squig your numbers are wrong.

Numbers are not wrong. To break even, they need to sell approx 4,500 Baneblades. To break even and maintain their 50% profit margin and recover their labour and overhead costs, they need to sell 320,000 Baneblades. This is what I was trying to describe.

GW will break even within a year. But to recover the profit and all the other asociated costs, will take longer.

Posted By TheSecretSquig on 09/04/2007 7:25 AM

No, I'm saying GW have to sell £30M, which is $15M. Don't confuse your currency's.

Um.... you seem to be confused.  £30M is approximately $60M USD, not $15M.  The British Pound is valued at approximately two US Dollars these days.  And even with that crazy currency rate aside, £30M retail is still an absurd amount of money for one model kit to be profitable.

secretsquig
your numbers are WAAAAAAY out of line
the biggest initial production run of a vehicle kit GW has ever done was the devilfish (for devilfish and hammerheads)
they only produced 30,000 of those.
your numbers are wrong, but don't worry about it.
The kit will come out, everyone will buy one, play with it, then continue to rant for other reasons (man, those rivets are too detailed, blah blah blah)

Posted By TheSecretSquig on 09/02/2007 2:35 PM

I've been at GW HQ in Nottingham all weekend, and I know quite a few of the staff there. I've had it confirmed, in no uncertain terms.... There is NO plastic Ork Stompa kit for Appocolypse release, or the Ork Codex release. The picture of the two stompas that has been floating around, they are scratch build. The reasons are:

• Most Ork players would prefere to scratch build their own.

I would like for Gw to poll us on dakka, warseer, bolter and chainsword and the many other fansites to see if this in fact true. I would think that most Ork players would prefer to have a stomper of anykind, but requiring it to be scratch built is just so much pop and circumstance.