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@xttz

hive crone failing IB is rare (ld10). Further, if that does happen it is only prohibited from shooting - it can shill swoop and vector strike to cause damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@jy2
Bring your nids with you, maybe you'll get a chance to run sky blight vs Deldar in addition to your battle with Geoff. Good luck though I must admit I'm hoping nids put on a clinic.

@xttz

You see the upgrades and squad sizes of the gargs a weakness of the list (because you no forgo one source of synapse). I see it as the strength of the list. Those sixty gargs will be taking the heat off the Flyrants (let alone the harpies and crones). Obviously I need to be careful with positioning and cover and LoS with the Flyrants. I am not going to use them aggressively because I have four other FMCs and Gargs to get aggressive with. Can someone get lucky and take out all my synapse? Absolutely. That is what makes it a game. But I would fancy my chances against the majority of lists out there.

On another note ... is blinding venom and hammer of wrath attacks allowed in your group? We need a FaQ.

I would say no to the combining of Blinding Venom + Hammer of Wrath. the HoW rules state that it's a single hit using the unmodified strength of the model, not a CC attack. Think of it as impact hits, rather than actual fighting done by the minature.

 jy2 wrote:
Guys, tomorrow I'm going to have a real treat for all those bug players.


We are going to test out the Skyblight formation. I am going up to Frontline Gaming and playing against Geoff "InControl" running the Skyblight formation, and I am bringing my tournament-winning wraithwing tesla-crons. If the bugs can beat my crons, then they've got what it takes to win a GT.


Videorep should be coming shortly after.

Sooo looking foward to this!

 jy2 wrote:
Guys, tomorrow I'm going to have a real treat for all those bug players.


We are going to test out the Skyblight formation. I am going up to Frontline Gaming and playing against Geoff "InControl" running the Skyblight formation, and I am bringing my tournament-winning wraithwing tesla-crons. If the bugs can beat my crons, then they've got what it takes to win a GT.


Videorep should be coming shortly after.

Ew. Videorep.

 jy2 wrote:
Guys, tomorrow I'm going to have a real treat for all those bug players.


We are going to test out the Skyblight formation. I am going up to Frontline Gaming and playing against Geoff "InControl" running the Skyblight formation, and I am bringing my tournament-winning wraithwing tesla-crons. If the bugs can beat my crons, then they've got what it takes to win a GT.


Videorep should be coming shortly after.

Sweet, this will be a close match, but I expect iNcontroL to take this one.

That is assuming the list looks something like (1850?):
Dakka flyrant
Dakka flyrant
Dakka flyrant

Termagants
Termagants

Gargoyles
Gargoyles
Gargoyles
Hive Crone
Hive Crone
Hive Crone
Hive Crone
Harpy (HVC)
Harpy (HVC)

That list warms the cockles of my heart.
Maybe below the cockles - maybe the sub-cockle area.
Maybe the liver. Maybe the even colon, I don't know.

(sorry, but +1 if you get the lyrics)

rigeld2 wrote:
That list warms the cockles of my heart.
Maybe below the cockles - maybe the sub-cockle area.
Maybe the liver. Maybe the even colon, I don't know.

(sorry, but +1 if you get the lyrics)

Are you some kind of @sshole?

*Edit, denied by the filters and sent to the donkey-cave!

 felixcat wrote:

IDed a Wraith Knight like this two days ago in a game 1750 game. Totally worth the points spent if you see them frequently.

I thought the same until I realized that twenty adrenaled toxic gargs (wounding on a 4+) will handle that WK quite nicely and they return. So why do I need a Reaper Rant? The fact is that skyblight has made it an imperative to take large squads of gargs if you want to abuse the formation - and let us be honest - tournament players will be doing this after testing. I was writing about this on tyranid hive. i've tested the formation with fortifications, seven flyers, reaper flyrant, etc. After the games I realized the gargs will be the MVPs of any skyblight list. They are just ridiculous multipliers in the list.

The only reason i have not fielded all 60 is that I do not own enough yet. But once I get another 20 gargs I will be playing it. I just don't see many lists able to fight it.

The statement was intended to be generic. Not everyone is running toxic gargoyles in which case one needs to makes sure and include something that can deal with WKs. If your army already has that covered then you are correct, their is no need for a Reaprant and toxic gargoyles are generally more suited for the task. Barring that the Reaper is well worth it's points.

I would do things your way but as of now I still don't own any gargoyles (though I might fix that soon) and have to make what I can out of what I have. I'm waiting for the third slate to hit before I make my final decisions as to what I require even though it's hard to imagine anything will be better than or even on-par with Skyblight.

 Abandon wrote:

 felixcat wrote:

IDed a Wraith Knight like this two days ago in a game 1750 game. Totally worth the points spent if you see them frequently.

I thought the same until I realized that twenty adrenaled toxic gargs (wounding on a 4+) will handle that WK quite nicely and they return. So why do I need a Reaper Rant? The fact is that skyblight has made it an imperative to take large squads of gargs if you want to abuse the formation - and let us be honest - tournament players will be doing this after testing. I was writing about this on tyranid hive. i've tested the formation with fortifications, seven flyers, reaper flyrant, etc. After the games I realized the gargs will be the MVPs of any skyblight list. They are just ridiculous multipliers in the list.

The only reason i have not fielded all 60 is that I do not own enough yet. But once I get another 20 gargs I will be playing it. I just don't see many lists able to fight it.

The statement was intended to be generic. Not everyone is running toxic gargoyles in which case one needs to makes sure and include something that can deal with WKs. If your army already has that covered then you are correct, their is no need for a Reaprant and toxic gargoyles are generally more suited for the task. Barring that the Reaper is well worth it's points.

I would do things your way but as of now I still don't own any gargoyles (though I might fix that soon) and have to make what I can out of what I have. I'm waiting for the third slate to hit before I make my final decisions as to what I require even though it's hard to imagine anything will be better than or even on-par with Skyblight.

"Endless" Carni/Tyrano Fexes?

I'm thinking more likely carnifexes with FNP or IWND standard

The statement was intended to be generic. Not everyone is running toxic gargoyles in which case one needs to makes sure and include something that can deal with WKs.

Which is understandable. My point was that skyblight has given us an option that is now much better. Tying up a WK or Riptide with gants is not new tactic. But there was risk involved investing points in sacrificial units so toxic gargs were not seen as a good option. However, when those gargs can return and when those gargs do not take up an FoC slot I think it time tor re-examine how efficient they are as a force multiplier now.

 felixcat wrote:

The statement was intended to be generic. Not everyone is running toxic gargoyles in which case one needs to makes sure and include something that can deal with WKs.

Which is understandable. My point was that skyblight has given us an option that is now much better. Tying up a WK or Riptide with gants is not new tactic. But there was risk involved investing points in sacrificial units so toxic gargs were not seen as a good option. However, when those gargs can return and when those gargs do not take up an FoC slot I think it time tor re-examine how efficient they are as a force multiplier now.

Agreed. I know most people just seem to see FMC spam but the gargoyles seem like the unsung heroes of the formation. Good units that are now super-scoring units that come back after they die half the time. In the end these are your game winners.

Just finished the game. All I'm going to say is....man, what a game! Sorry, guys, but you're just going to have to wait for the videorep to come out (probably by tomorrow!)

NamelessBard wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Guys, tomorrow I'm going to have a real treat for all those bug players.


We are going to test out the Skyblight formation. I am going up to Frontline Gaming and playing against Geoff "InControl" running the Skyblight formation, and I am bringing my tournament-winning wraithwing tesla-crons. If the bugs can beat my crons, then they've got what it takes to win a GT.


Videorep should be coming shortly after.

Sweet, this will be a close match, but I expect iNcontroL to take this one.

That is assuming the list looks something like (1850?):
Dakka flyrant
Dakka flyrant
Dakka flyrant

Termagants
Termagants

Gargoyles
Gargoyles
Gargoyles
Hive Crone
Hive Crone
Hive Crone
Hive Crone
Harpy (HVC)
Harpy (HVC)

This is what he ran at 1850:

Dakka flyrant
Dakka flyrant
Dakka flyrant

Tervigon
30 Termagants - 8 Devourers

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

Hive Crone
Hive Crone

Harpy (HVC)
Harpy (Stranglethorn)


Basically, he went more with the units that he (and the store....and I) had and also units that he was more familiar with.


This was my list:


D-lord - 2+, MSS, ResOrb
D-lord - 2+, MSS

2x5 Gauss Immortals in Night Scythes
2x5 Warriors in Night Scythes

3x5 Wraiths

3 Annihilation Barges

Ok, videorep out.


Skyblight Tyranids vs Wraithwing Necrons


Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep #216 Skyblight Tyranids vs Cron Air

This is why I fear Akyblight might get banned at tournaments and other venues. You faced thirty gargoyles Jy2. Around here we have two guys fielding over sixty gargs in their list along with six flyers. How do you defend against that?

 jy2 wrote:
Ok, videorep out.


Skyblight Tyranids vs Wraithwing Necrons


Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep #216 Skyblight Tyranids vs Cron Air

That was good fight right up to the end, thanks for the battle report. Confirmed a lot of what I thought about the Skyblight formation and I really liked your Cron Air army as well. I'd say more but I don't want to give anything away and everyone should watch this for themselves

 felixcat wrote:
This is why I fear Akyblight might get banned at tournaments and other venues. You faced thirty gargoyles Jy2. Around here we have two guys fielding over sixty gargs in their list along with six flyers. How do you defend against that?

Don't have an answer yet, but IMO, there is always a way. No army, no matter how good, is unbeatable.

 jy2 wrote:

 felixcat wrote:
This is why I fear Akyblight might get banned at tournaments and other venues. You faced thirty gargoyles Jy2. Around here we have two guys fielding over sixty gargs in their list along with six flyers. How do you defend against that?

Don't have an answer yet, but IMO, there is always a way. No army, no matter how good, is unbeatable.

Time to break out the triple stalker SM list with sky fire tau allies.

IG with max hydras and Vendettas woo!

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 felixcat wrote:
This is why I fear Akyblight might get banned at tournaments and other venues. You faced thirty gargoyles Jy2. Around here we have two guys fielding over sixty gargs in their list along with six flyers. How do you defend against that?

Don't have an answer yet, but IMO, there is always a way. No army, no matter how good, is unbeatable.

Time to break out the triple stalker SM list with sky fire tau allies.

 jifel wrote:
IG with max hydras and Vendettas woo!

The problem then becomes how to deal with the other top-tier tournament armies like beaststar/seer council/wraithwing/Ovesastar/White Scars/etc. as well.

If you kit out your army to be able to deal with Skyblight bugs, it's hard to build an army that can handle all the other armies (or as the Internet is now calling it....Deathstar40K) as well.

What's so good about Skyblight nids is that it is a great TAC army as well. I feel that it can matchup right now with any of the other top-tier armies and hold its own without changing anything from army to army (other than tactics).

It's incredibly difficult to have a list that can beat every competitive list. But Nids just went from a "dark-horse competitive army" to that army you have to plan for now. I'm very happy to jump on the Skyblight bandwagon. I won't be running the 9 FMCs at 1850 that is max cheese, but 7 allows some great balance.

I'd say 7 FMC is a more cheesy list than 9, as it allows you to run lots of pseudo-scoring Gargoyles that come back on a 4+. That's the real cheese of Skyblight Swarm, extra FMCs is just the icing on the cheesecake.

 felixcat wrote:
This is why I fear Akyblight might get banned at tournaments and other venues. You faced thirty gargoyles Jy2. Around here we have two guys fielding over sixty gargs in their list along with six flyers. How do you defend against that?

Many armies will have a very hard time dealing with it but is it really any worse than some of the other armies out there? The term OP is often used to describe several other army list types that are widely excepted but as soon as the Nids have something on par they call foul? If any venue does this I will be more than happy not to play at their tourney. 'Many armies will have a very hard time dealing with this' could describe any number of armies, many of which are called OP yet all have their weaknesses. Allowing this for some armies but denying it to the nids would show something less than good sportsmanship.

Defeating Skyblight is not so hard for some armies I'd imagine though further trial should of course be given. After their done being intimidated they realize they just need to do what the were doing before. Kill the synapse and make our scouring units fall back off objectives. The only difference being that it's now easier said then done.

I'm sure people will come up with counters for skyblight but it will be a very powerful force in the meta. Now there are already tournaments banning dataslates ( no coteaz, no be'lakor, etc.) I also expect to see bans on d-weapons. I agree it is not fair. We finally have some answers to TauDar and DelDar and then TOs take them away. So sure it is beatable but not easily and I don't think at the moment there is a hard counter list that is top tier. As pointed out tailoring just for skyblight could really neuter your list overall.

I'd be fine with Skyblight being banned if everyone else had their OP stuff banned too.

If Skyblight gets banned, I will never play Mindshackle Scarabs, the Grimoire, CnC Nodes, Wave Serpents, Tigurius, Heldrakes or Vendettas again. Every army in this game has something too good for its points. That's the nature of the game. But if Nids get theirs banned because it "comes from a different source" or some BS, then it's because people dont want the meta to change, plain as that.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I'd be fine with Skyblight being banned if everyone else had their OP stuff banned too.

^^^This^^^
Fair is fair.

Considering all the OP stuff out their along with access to other armies OP stuff through allies I really don't think anyone has any grounds to deny it other than through sheer laziness in not wanting to type 'except for Tyranids' on the end of 'no formations/slates', intentional bias or complete ignorance of the state Nids are in. None of which is excusable in people wanting to organize tournaments... just my opinion.

Counting a formation as our ally slot sounds very reasonable to me.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I'd say 7 FMC is a more cheesy list than 9, as it allows you to run lots of pseudo-scoring Gargoyles that come back on a 4+. That's the real cheese of Skyblight Swarm, extra FMCs is just the icing on the cheesecake.

I agree. I think this is the more stronger list with a backfield tervigon. (It's also a lot cheaper for most of us)

Looking forward to watching the battlerep

NamelessBard wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I'd say 7 FMC is a more cheesy list than 9, as it allows you to run lots of pseudo-scoring Gargoyles that come back on a 4+. That's the real cheese of Skyblight Swarm, extra FMCs is just the icing on the cheesecake.

I agree. I think this is the more stronger list with a backfield tervigon. (It's also a lot cheaper for most of us)

Looking forward to watching the battlerep

I was thinking that strengthening those gargoyle broods and adding some cheap backfield synapse(perhaps Strangle Warriors to fill the required troop slots) would be best. Point for point the return on upgraded gargoyles might outweigh the production of termigants and they are of greater tactical use... Or perhaps adding one Trygon instead of added synapse to get the Gargoyles back in the action asap via Trygon tunnel.