Dakka's Game - Maelstrom's Edge - First teaser from the Broken faction - pg 91

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**Jehan-reznor**

Spiral Arm Studios wrote:
AlexHolker wrote:
Hydraulic Fist (left arm only) - A massive hydraulic fist that can be used to tear or punch through even the toughest enemy at close-quarters.

You put hands on a robot for utility, not for punching. Look at all those tiny joints - do you really want to go around smashing them into things?

You are correct...the primary reason for a Hunter being given a fist is for utility purposes. However, for the game the representation of that fist is that it gives the Hunter more punch (pun intended) in close quarters fighting.

Well in Front mission game you had Knuckles (among others) for close combat, those would be easy to scratchbuilt

**Vanguard-13**

I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.

A fist is the worst thing you want to punch with. When dealing with a robotic arm, The best thing you can punch with is a spike or wedge. having the entire force of the punch impact in such a small location will do more damage, pierce more armor, and deal less damage to the mech doing the punching.

Knuckles are good, They provide a wedge. They also avoid damage to the sensitive fingers and instead put the pressure on the thumb and wrist of the mech.

But that's just my two cents, Sorry for the rant.

**Panic**

yeah,
Now I want to convert some of my hunters to be holding knuckle dusters or punch spikes!

Panic...

**Miss Dee**

How do I upgrade my pledge?

**Lorek**

Vanguard-13 wrote:
I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.

Yep, I agree, but if you've ever tried to use palm-heel strikes, you'll notice that you have to get your hand out of the way. I'm not flexible enough to be able to strike at all angles without hurting my hand. Plus, your fingers are actually a bit more extended, so there is the minor chance of injuring them that way. Using a fist does allow you to protect your fingers with the knuckles. American boxing has some of the best punches of any martial art, and they use closed fists.

Disclaimer: Not trying to be a tough guy here. I took six years of martial arts and I'm still worthless in a fight. My self-defense strategies include harsh language and running.

**legoburner**

Hi Miss Dee, just go to the kickstarter page and click 'manage my pledge' to change your options there. Thanks!

**Miss Dee**

Thanks cant wait to see the full game

**Vanguard-13**

Lorek wrote:
Vanguard-13 wrote:
I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.

Yep, I agree, but if you've ever tried to use palm-heel strikes, you'll notice that you have to get your hand out of the way. I'm not flexible enough to be able to strike at all angles without hurting my hand. Plus, your fingers are actually a bit more extended, so there is the minor chance of injuring them that way. Using a fist does allow you to protect your fingers with the knuckles. American boxing has some of the best punches of any martial art, and they use closed fists.

Disclaimer: Not trying to be a tough guy here. I took six years of martial arts and I'm still worthless in a fight. My self-defense strategies include harsh language and running.

Yes, you are quite right. Palm heel strikes are limited in direction, and they leave your fingers exposed for grabbing, Pulling, or otherwise painful experiences. However, Breaking a knuckle sounds more painful to me. I've taken a bit of Martial arts, Not as many years as you, but enough to grasp the concepts of strikes. I've been studying random sword styles since then.

I am not too familiar with American Boxing, But don't they use gloves to protect their hands? Preventing knuckles from straight impact, fingers from moving, etc. They Wrap up their hands as well. In my eyes, this is similar to what a "Knuckle" would do for a mech.

Well, I don't think you need to be a tough guy to research or discuss a topic. I think you have many valid points, I simply disagree here and there. There's no 'right' answer.

**Triple9**

Didn't see if this was asked, but is Spiral Arm going to have any Gen Con presence?

**legoburner**

I will personally be at gencon attending meetings with distributors, but I'll do my best to wear my Spiral Arm Studios shirt throughout (might get a bit funky by day 4 though!), and will be happy to speak to people, and I'll almost certainly have some models and plastic with me to show off in the flesh to anyone who wants to see them.

Spiral Arm Studios wont have a stand there in 2015 as being a first time shower, you have to go in for a lottery to get a stand rather than having one guaranteed, and the prices of the combined stand and travel are unsustainably huge given half of the team are UK based. We'll be aiming for Adepticon and Salute next year certainly, and we'll be able to subsidise our gencon appearance with product sales next year, so in 2016 we'll be aiming for a stand there too.

**Cergorach**

Lorek wrote:
Vanguard-13 wrote:
I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.

Yep, I agree, but if you've ever tried to use palm-heel strikes, you'll notice that you have to get your hand out of the way. I'm not flexible enough to be able to strike at all angles without hurting my hand. Plus, your fingers are actually a bit more extended, so there is the minor chance of injuring them that way. Using a fist does allow you to protect your fingers with the knuckles. American boxing has some of the best punches of any martial art, and they use closed fists.

Disclaimer: Not trying to be a tough guy here. I took six years of martial arts and I'm still worthless in a fight. My self-defense strategies include harsh language and running.

I don't know the mechanics, but it feels like that your fist acts as a sort of 'shock absorber'. If I hit a solid object (like a door or wall) with the palm of my hand with the same force as with (a properly) closed fist, the strike with my palm will 'damage' my arm more then the one with the closed fist. Not to mention the damage to my hand if I break through the wall/door with the palm strike. A palm strike does have certain functions if you need to 'push' something that needs more of a solid surface then four grouped fingers (like a nose)...

Honestly, in robots/mecha I think that hitting something with a robotic fist is a bad idea, it's probably the most error prone part of the whole arm. But you can do cool things like grabbing things and throwing them or grappling... Warmachine did that well with integrating those mechanics into it's core rules.

**Lost Egg**

There is bound to be a difference between a human and a meter fist. An met fist could even be engineered to absorb the shock of a blow; maybe the delicate joints fuse temporarily or it is made from some super-strong-metal.

Just like a human there is also a certain degree of choice for the target area of the blow depending upon direction, the target itself as well as any armour or equipment it carries. For example, you wouldn't have a problem punching someone in the gut but you would be more likely to strike a throat with the knife edge or your hand. On an armoured target the meter might punch through an access panel to then rip out the cables behind.

**Vanguard-13**

Lost Egg wrote:
There is bound to be a difference between a human and a meter fist. An met fist could even be engineered to absorb the shock of a blow; maybe the delicate joints fuse temporarily or it is made from some super-strong-metal.

Just like a human there is also a certain degree of choice for the target area of the blow depending upon direction, the target itself as well as any armour or equipment it carries. For example, you wouldn't have a problem punching someone in the gut but you would be more likely to strike a throat with the knife edge or your hand. On an armoured target the meter might punch through an access panel to then rip out the cables behind.

I see your point. It would be rather beneficial to rip out internals from a penetrating hand strike. However, being a war machine, there are far more effective ways to do the same thing that don't need a fist. A claw can do it just as well, if not better then a flat fist.

I think we have to look at it as the following:
The Hunters were designed for war, but the designer probably put hands on it to begin with. Just as a "Here's the Default, so It can pick up weapons." sort of thing. And as the bots were made, the fist just sort of, got included as the 'cheapest' option. ((Granted, I'd argue that guns are cheaper then articulated fists. But it is the future, maybe the fists are surplus and the guns are high tech. who knows.)) So the fists are there simply because they wound up there.

That's how I am choosing to look at it. Because otherwise, An empty arm would be better then a fist. ((Cergorach makes a good point, that grappling, throwing, and pushing are all great Hand mechanics from Warmachine/Hoards. But I am not sure if we will see that here in MEdge)) An empty arm could be used as a shield, or a hammer. But I suppose with a fist, the hunter could pick up enemy weapons and attempt to use them....

**Spiral Arm Studios**

Interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on the mechanics of the Hunter's fist, we're taking note of the discussion for the future, and there'll definitely be room for that kind of input in the beta. Epirian robots are also used outside of combat, so the flexibility of the Hunter's hand is useful for a number of other applications such as load lifting, manipulation of debris and operating logistical components in dangerous environments. The fist is just the in-game representation of that arm configuration, and the Maglock Chaingun will be the more powerful weapon in that loadout.

In today's Kickstarter update we have gone into more detail on the Epirian Drone sprue, which you can use to make 2 of either drone, either the aerial Firefly drone or the Spider, with 4 different gun options.

You can even, as one of our writers did at Salute, build a hybrid of the two, which we are tentatively calling the 'Grasshopper'! The ease in which both variants goes together is one of the advantages of the sliding core sprue technology we use. If people like the Grasshopper, we may add rules for it in the future, so please let us know what you think.

We've also reached the $40k stretch goal, which means every $90 box set pledge gets an additional set of tokens, with the suppression tokens in the colours of the cybel energy used by the weapons of the Karist Enclave. Thanks to everyone who has supported us so far!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/medge/maelstroms-edge-a-next-gen-sci-fi-miniatures-warga/posts/1236465

**Grey Templar**

You know I had the same idea when I first saw the drone sprue. The "Grasshopper" definitely needs rules.

**Ozymandias**

Lorek wrote:
Vanguard-13 wrote:
I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.

Yep, I agree, but if you've ever tried to use palm-heel strikes, you'll notice that you have to get your hand out of the way. I'm not flexible enough to be able to strike at all angles without hurting my hand. Plus, your fingers are actually a bit more extended, so there is the minor chance of injuring them that way. Using a fist does allow you to protect your fingers with the knuckles. American boxing has some of the best punches of any martial art, and they use closed fists.

Disclaimer: Not trying to be a tough guy here. I took six years of martial arts and I'm still worthless in a fight. My self-defense strategies include harsh language and running.

I thought you just dazzled them with your amazing painting skills?

**EarloftheNorth**

Grey Templar wrote:
You know I had the same idea when I first saw the drone sprue. The "Grasshopper" definitely needs rules.

I agree,maybe limit it to walking and 'jumps' rather than flying.....so basically a more mobile version of the spider drone.

**Grey Templar**

That was my idea as well. I'll definitely have input during beta testing after I've familiarized myself with the ruleset.

**Miss Dee**

And it needs the Kung-Fu skill set as well.

**solkan**

Vanguard-13 wrote:
I never understood the practicality of using hands as fists. Using the bottom of your palm strikes just as hard, If not harder. Doesn't risk the shattering of your fingers, and hits with a lot more concentrated force.

A fist is the worst thing you want to punch with. When dealing with a robotic arm, The best thing you can punch with is a spike or wedge. having the entire force of the punch impact in such a small location will do more damage, pierce more armor, and deal less damage to the mech doing the punching.

Knuckles are good, They provide a wedge. They also avoid damage to the sensitive fingers and instead put the pressure on the thumb and wrist of the mech.

But that's just my two cents, Sorry for the rant.

I think at some point you have to accept artistic license on what the giant robot's weapons are modeled as. Because "robot using giant mechanical finger to pull giant mechanical trigger" is really as silly as "robot using giant mechanical fingers to grip giant mechanical brass knuckles".

So if you assume that the gun has some sort of reasonable connecting mechanism to connect fire control through the hand, you can also assume that the "knuckle" has some way of locking the hand into position so that the force gets directed through the more reinforced parts of the structure instead of relying on the fingers themselves. I think that's sort of how the action figures dealt with securing the knuckle in the open hand, too.

I wonder if anyone can come up with a better "punching shell" for the hand to lock into in a fist-like configuration....

**the_Armyman**

Are the rules still in beta/playtest atm or are they largely finalized? I would love to see a gameplay video. I'm pledged for the rules, but I'm sitting on the fence for a full boxset pledge. I enjoy 40K for its background, but I like Bolt Action for its simplicity of mechanics. A game that could combine both of those qualities would be perfect for me.

**Spiral Arm Studios**

the_Armyman wrote:
Are the rules still in beta/playtest atm or are they largely finalized? I would love to see a gameplay video. I'm pledged for the rules, but I'm sitting on the fence for a full boxset pledge. I enjoy 40K for its background, but I like Bolt Action for its simplicity of mechanics. A game that could combine both of those qualities would be perfect for me.

There will be a beta version of the rules distributed to all backers who want it soon after the Kickstarter ends. The ruleset and its mechanics are complete, but we are keen for people to play and give us feedback, particularly when it comes to balancing the factions and force-building.

**the_Armyman**

Spiral Arm Studios wrote:
the_Armyman wrote:
Are the rules still in beta/playtest atm or are they largely finalized? I would love to see a gameplay video. I'm pledged for the rules, but I'm sitting on the fence for a full boxset pledge. I enjoy 40K for its background, but I like Bolt Action for its simplicity of mechanics. A game that could combine both of those qualities would be perfect for me.

There will be a beta version of the rules distributed to all backers who want it soon after the Kickstarter ends. The ruleset and its mechanics are complete, but we are keen for people to play and give us feedback, particularly when it comes to balancing the factions and force-building.

I can understand that, though it does make it a bit more difficult to make a blind investment in the game. Most of the models look great and the background is intriguing, but the last thing I need is a miniatures game that I don't enjoy playing.

If we're already a backer, will there be the ability to add to our pledge via a pledge manager after the KS ends? I appreciate the instant feedback and answers, guys

**Slarg232**

edlowe wrote:
Really love this image, theres some really strong imagery and character.

Holy sheet, I just found my next background image on my computer.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Holy gak! Alistair Reynolds!

I've also read or at least heard about most of the other authors as well. Great mix of talent!

**BobtheInquisitor**

So, when are you going to put up the remaining Salute paperbacks?

(mod note: edited out quoted content as it is repeated below with formatting - thanks for posting it though!)

**Spiral Arm Studios**

Here's the latest update, revealing some of the top tier authors we are working with at the moment!

Last summer several members of the team had the opportunity to attend WorldCon and give a sneak-peek of Maelstrom's Edge to some of the world's best science-fiction authors. The aim? To showcase our universe and convince them to lend their awesome storytelling talents to our project. Presenting the backdrop, artwork, and prototype models, it's no exaggeration to say that every author we pitched to came away impressed with both our vision and our commitment to building a long-lasting IP. Although we weren't able to snag every author we spoke to (largely on account of prior commitments--some of these folks are booked solid until late 2016!), we did manage to sign up a good mix of highly-acclaimed established voices and up-and-coming superstars.

So, we are delighted to announce that the following authors will be contributing original work to the Maelstrom's Edge universe:

Alastair Reynolds

With over a decade of experience as a professional astrophysicist to back up his writing chops, Alastair Reynolds is deservedly called the "reigning master of the intergalactic space opera", and brings a compelling edge of hard-SF to his unique brand of galaxy-spanning science fiction. Author of the Inhibitor trilogy that kicked off with the seismic Revelation Space and ended with the chilling Absolution Gap, Alastair's star has only risen over the last twenty years, and has been nominated for the prestigious Arthur C. Clarke Award three times.

http://www.alastairreynolds.com/

Here's what he said about getting to play in the Maelstrom's Edge universe:

"Maelstrom's Edge is something different: an SF game universe put together with real originality and incorporating some genuinely clever and inventive thinking. There are enough worlds and stories waiting to be explored to last a lifetime..."

With his gritty blend of dark sci-fi, speculative science, and galaxy-spanning drama he is a perfect match for the Maelstrom's Edge universe and we're delighted to have him on board.

Aliette de Bodard

Nominated for multiple Hugo, Nebula, and BSFA awards, and winner of the Nebula and Locus awards, Aliette de Bodard is a highly-acclaimed author who will bring brilliant prose allied to poignant characters to the Maelstrom's Edge universe. Subverting the usual tropes for original twists, and substituting by-the-numbers heroes for vivid individuals deeply entwined with familial and cultural shackles, we are really excited to see what Aliette does with the apocalyptic backdrop of Maelstrom's Edge where some face utter calamity while others accrue riches beyond their wildest dreams.

http://aliettedebodard.com

Jeff Carlson

In the Plague Year trilogy Jeff Carlson unleashed a nanoplague on humanity that killed all warm-blooded life below 10,000 feet. In his Frozen Sky novels humankind discovered a deadly species in the icy waters of Jupiter's ice moon, Europa. Who better than this Philip K. Dick Award Finalist to help bring the Maelstrom's Edge universe to gripping life? When we told him about the Maelstrom's Edge universe and invited him to spread his fictional wings he had the following to say:

"These days I write sci fi and tech thrillers that, I hope, are chock full of monsters and chills and cutting edge science. When I heard about Maelstrom’s Edge, I begged its designers to let me play in their sandbox. An unstoppable wave of hellish energy. Civilizations destroyed. Terraforming corporations, mech, refugees, cults, strange planets. Man, that’s what I do!!!!"

We've already had a sneak-peek at the story Jeff is planning, and it's shaping up to be something both beautiful and brutal.

http://www.jverse.com/books/

Liz Williams

With degrees in philosophy and artificial intelligence, a mother who was a gothic novelist, and a father who was a part-time conjurer, it is no exaggeration to say that Liz William's is one of the most original voices working in science fiction today. Short-listed for the Philip K. Dick Award for her novels no less than four times, Liz is also a master of the short form with her work appearing in many Year's Best anthologies. Writing dark and strange yet utterly compelling fiction, Liz's piece for our debut Maelstrom's Edge anthology is provisionally titled "Darkheart" and we can't wait to read it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liz-Williams/e/B001HCXOL2

Rob Ziegler

Author of the spectacular Seed, which Paolo Bacigalupi described as "A hungry beast of a book, rippling with slaughter and sex, powerhouse action, surreal post-human horrors and bigger-than-life heroes", Rob's work combines kinetic action, bleak landscapes, and characters drawn from the grimy underbelly of society. As such we think he is perfect to help us flesh out some of the stories happening at the margins of the Maelstrom's Edge universe, particularly those involving the Broken, our very own faction of survivalists who mix the high-tech and the squalid together with the violent and the tender.

http://zieglerstories.com/

Jaine Fenn

Described by SFX Magazine as "A major new talent" on the release of her debut novel, Consorts of Heaven, Jaine Fenn has proceeded to flesh out her Hidden Empire series, charting seven-thousand years of future history as humankind adventures among the stars. Known for writing tense and fast-paced stories set in vivid locales, we felt Jaine would create the kind of gripping fiction perfectly suited to the universe of Maelstrom's Edge. For her first story in our universe, Jaine has set her sights on one of our currently unannounced factions - The Artarian Remnant.

http://www.jainefenn.com/

Karin Lowachee

Winner of a boatload of awards including Warner Aspect First Novel, Prix Aurora Award 2006, and Spectrum Award 2006, not to mention twice being shortlisted for the Philip K. Dick Award, Karin Lowachee's Warchild Universe
explores the experience of fictionalised child soldiers learning to survive in a war-torn galaxy. When we asked her to expand on what drew her to Maelstrom's Edge universe she had the following to say:

"In a genre that can literally explore anything the imagination envisions, the opportunity to sink my teeth into a doomsday event of galactic proportions was too good to pass. Everything about Maelstrom's Edge speaks to my creative inclinations: high stakes, complex characters, an expansive setting, and a sense of wonder. The possibilities for exploration both external and internal are endless, and my fascination with the human condition—our frailties as well as our strengths—is something I will explore. A psychological close-up of what a random band of survivors on a frontier planet are willing and able to do to reach their destination—and presumably their saving grace to get off-world ahead of the Maelstrom—will take an unflinching look at the nature of selfishness, exploitation, compassion and love."

Karin's tale will explore a lawless, frontier-type world that has been abandoned by the corporations, leaving the population alone to face the coming Maelstrom.

http://www.karinlowachee.com

Maelstrom's Edge has a comprehensive long term fiction plan which is receiving as much attention as the game itself. From day one we've been developing a universe which will grab the interest of anybody who has even a passing interest in Science Fiction, and with some of the best sci-fi authors in the world committing stories over the coming year, you can rest assured that Maelstrom's Edge will only be going from strength to strength.

Right now we've got two novels, faith and sacrifice available for purchase, and reviews have been positive:

"I just finished the second book & all I can say is wow... That was so much better than expected. You guys really made a top notch universe, on the level of infinity even, & I've only seen a glimpse. There's no way I'm not going in on the kick-starter if I can scrounge up the money. Really looking forward to more background! "

"I bought the first book out of curiosity and to throw a bit of support towards all the hard work you've all put in, but the world and writing are both really top notch stuff and will have me coming back for more. Even if I never play the game, the series will continue to be on the reading list"

"I finished up the first book yesterday and was quite impressed. I went in with the impression that it would have a good story, but be a bit pulpy and need some editing, but it's a nice tight story that didn't go overboard with jargon and re-iterating the same information over. Just ordered Sacrifice and will start on it tonight. "

We've got a bunch of short story compilations near completion and due out over the course of this year and the next, with a master compilation of stories by the authors listed in this update coming early next year too.

As with all of Maelstrom's Edge, we have poured our passion and excitement into everything we do, and cant wait to share more of our fiction with those of you who love to read! Thank you as always to all of our backers for your continued support and kind words.

**legoburner**

Thanks bob, Salute leftover paperbacks will be post-KS and we dont have a specific date in mind for them just yet but will be sure to shout loudly when they are available.

**Kilkrazy**

Alastair Reynolds is one of my favourite SF authors. He is a big talent and a major asset to the game universe, IMO.

**Slarg232**

Never heard of him before, what else has he written of note?