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FW may have some in stock, and once the stock of resin Sicaran hulls runs out they can take them down and switch over to just selling the turrets.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I’m all for Heresy having its own flavour and aesthetic, that’s why I hate the idea of loyalist Primarchs in 40K so much
I just think that maybe Mechanicum should be the one exception. It feels wrong to me that Heresy era Mechanicum and 40K Ad Mech are so very different, when they ought to be very similar. Perhaps even identical.

I think there needs to be a disconnect between the two factions which we sort of see.
If we look at the lineup for the Mechanicum it's a lot of Dark Age machines that come a lot closer to A.I. and freaky science projects. Many Automata used by the Mechanicum seemed to develop quirks and sometimes things that resembled a primitive personality. They were much more independent of their human masters without being human themselves.
The Mechanicus however, is much more human-based soldiers. Skitarii of many types, Battle Servitors, and only one type of Battle Automata which has its behaviours strictly controlled by data wafers. The armies of the Adeptus Mechanicus more closely resemble the Imperium they are a part of, even if it hordes technology and secrets like the old Mechanicum. There is safety in the limitations of (albeit an advanced) human body.
Obviously there are the Techthralls and the Titan Legion Skitarii but the majority of the HH Mechanicum list is based around non-human units whereas the 40k Mechanicus is almost entirely human-based units.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Also quite surprised that the Sicaran kit hasn't sold out yet.

It all just depends how many they made.

But also perhaps so many people now have Spartans for their armies they aren't ready for a 2nd largish tank? Or maybe it's not as well liked aesthetically? I know the Sicaran doesn't do much for me, I'd rather have a Predator squadron.

Leviathan hasn't sold out either and they're very popular in lists.

Thing is, there’ll be folk out there with existing Leviathans and Contemptors snaffling weapon sprues for magnetising, because plastic and resin base chassis are the same fittings, and having a wider choice of weapons was previously prohibitive cost wise.

Adding onto the descussion about 30k Mechanicum - anyone else here feel it was the correct course of action to have 40k Mechanicum units feature very little and that the 30k Mechanicum is a VERY different beast to it's 10k older incarnation?

At first, I was fully on board with 40k Mechanicum being fully in 30k Mechanicum, until I started reading the fluff of the 30k Mechanicum and realised a lot, if not all of the 40k Mechanicum units came about because of what happened in 30k. Why there are no ultra deadly hunter killer robots, or literal walking ordinance tech priests and why a lot of the more 'indipendant' units got mothballed. While I am cynical to believe that it's always about making cash, the whole story with the schism of Mars and the unspeakable techno horrors that were unleashed really hit home why certain gak was locked away and should never be used.

Essentially, while I agree Skittari and other things that WERE present in 30k should be there, I'd rather 30k Mech be the strange techno wonder it is, than the super safe 40k it becomes due to them abandoning certain things due to it nearly causing the Mechanicum to... Not exist.

quote=Mad Doc Grotsnik 805504 11417317 a00f106df055e9a8133247b13632ffbf.png]
Thing is, there’ll be folk out there with existing Leviathans and Contemptors snaffling weapon sprues for magnetising, because plastic and resin base chassis are the same fittings, and having a wider choice of weapons was previously prohibitive cost wise.

I also did a review & unboxing for the ranged weapons Leviathan Dreadnought. There are high-res pictures of all the sprues and I also give some advice for magnetising the arms, as the close combat arms use different shoulder pieces as the ranged weapon arms:

https://taleofpainters.com/2022/08/review-horus-heresy-leviathan-dreadnought-with-ranged-weapons/

Would be nice though... :(

Just built the first of three Deimos Rhinos.

Man it’s pretty dinky! Fun kit to build, with not even the tracks (traditionally my least favourite bit) not being a pain in the arse.

Base plate was a pretty tight fit, but not to the point I was worried anything was gonna break. And of course I armed it with a multi-melta!

The base plate rearmost pegs are thicker, so they are really stiff. After a couple, you get used to them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Just built the first of three Deimos Rhinos.

Man it’s pretty dinky! Fun kit to build, with not even the tracks (traditionally my least favourite bit) not being a pain in the arse.

Base plate was a pretty tight fit, but not to the point I was worried anything was gonna break. And of course I armed it with a multi-melta!

, multi melta deimos for the win.

but yes its a good kit, easy to build, interesting options and still a whole sprue of goodies

The overall build is also really solid, something it has in common with the Contemptor and Leviathan Dreadnought, despite the Rhino having a fair amount of hollow space inside.

And yes, MM Deimos just seem to make sense! Cheap enough to be viable, and one of those odd threats to your opponent, who can only sort of-ish afford to ignore it. But to engage it risks them arguably wasting firepower.

Now if GW could just give us the other half of that sweet MkII armor..

..looks at FW Argel Tal's base and shakes fist.

Next month hopefully the predator and proteus land raider? Then GW needs to start showing off new plastics

Gert wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I’m all for Heresy having its own flavour and aesthetic, that’s why I hate the idea of loyalist Primarchs in 40K so much
I just think that maybe Mechanicum should be the one exception. It feels wrong to me that Heresy era Mechanicum and 40K Ad Mech are so very different, when they ought to be very similar. Perhaps even identical.

I think there needs to be a disconnect between the two factions which we sort of see.
If we look at the lineup for the Mechanicum it's a lot of Dark Age machines that come a lot closer to A.I. and freaky science projects. Many Automata used by the Mechanicum seemed to develop quirks and sometimes things that resembled a primitive personality. They were much more independent of their human masters without being human themselves.
The Mechanicus however, is much more human-based soldiers. Skitarii of many types, Battle Servitors, and only one type of Battle Automata which has its behaviours strictly controlled by data wafers. The armies of the Adeptus Mechanicus more closely resemble the Imperium they are a part of, even if it hordes technology and secrets like the old Mechanicum. There is safety in the limitations of (albeit an advanced) human body.
Obviously there are the Techthralls and the Titan Legion Skitarii but the majority of the HH Mechanicum list is based around non-human units whereas the 40k Mechanicus is almost entirely human-based units.

Yeah, the 40k Mechanicus wouldn't want to use all of those semi-autonomous Automota.....but the 40k Dark Mechanicum would. Some Chaos tainted Vorax, Thallax, Thanatars, etc would be awesome, and a lot cooler than dinobots and mutant spiders, IMHO.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:The overall build is also really solid, something it has in common with the Contemptor and Leviathan Dreadnought, despite the Rhino having a fair amount of hollow space inside.

And yes, MM Deimos just seem to make sense! Cheap enough to be viable, and one of those odd threats to your opponent, who can only sort of-ish afford to ignore it. But to engage it risks them arguably wasting firepower.

And if you make it a Dedicated Transport for any unit with Infiltrate you can have it causing problems for your opponent early. Not bad for 65 PPM.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Next month hopefully the predator and proteus land raider? Then GW needs to start showing off new plastics

I’m hopeful of plastic Tercios for the Solar Auxilia.

Sure, the Mechanicum didn’t get anything crossing the Rubicon Plasticaris, but given how points intensive their forces can be, that’s perhaps understandable.

But the Tercios? So bloody expensive in resin, and you need a fair few. So plastic makes sense.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Next month hopefully the predator and proteus land raider? Then GW needs to start showing off new plastics

I’m hopeful of plastic Tercios for the Solar Auxilia.

Sure, the Mechanicum didn’t get anything crossing the Rubicon Plasticaris, but given how points intensive their forces can be, that’s perhaps understandable.

But the Tercios? So bloody expensive in resin, and you need a fair few. So plastic makes sense.

Looking at how successful Heresy 2.0 seems to be, I think we will get plastic releases for more than marines eventually. It’ll probably be several years down the line though. We might even see the expansion of Heresy era onto other games. I’d be up for Age of Darkness Kill Team, for example.

Epic in the Age of Darkness, they already have everything but tanks and infantry for it.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Adding onto the descussion about 30k Mechanicum - anyone else here feel it was the correct course of action to have 40k Mechanicum units feature very little and that the 30k Mechanicum is a VERY different beast to it's 10k older incarnation?

At first, I was fully on board with 40k Mechanicum being fully in 30k Mechanicum, until I started reading the fluff of the 30k Mechanicum and realised a lot, if not all of the 40k Mechanicum units came about because of what happened in 30k. Why there are no ultra deadly hunter killer robots, or literal walking ordinance tech priests and why a lot of the more 'indipendant' units got mothballed. While I am cynical to believe that it's always about making cash, the whole story with the schism of Mars and the unspeakable techno horrors that were unleashed really hit home why certain gak was locked away and should never be used.

Essentially, while I agree Skittari and other things that WERE present in 30k should be there, I'd rather 30k Mech be the strange techno wonder it is, than the super safe 40k it becomes due to them abandoning certain things due to it nearly causing the Mechanicum to... Not exist.

Yep, 100%. I think many people calling for 40k Mechanicum in 30k and vice versa are people who haven't dug deep into the fluff. The MECHANICUM of the 30k era are a very different organization from the ADEPTUS MECHANICUS of the 40k era. I capitalized those names for a reason - to highlight that they are different, they refer to different things and they are not interchangeable (despite the tendency of the fanbase to treat them as such) - its like referring to the Third Reich as the Weimar Republic, or referring to the Weimar Republic as the German Kaiserreich, etc. There is clear continuity between them, some of the people are the same, etc. by virtue of one leading into the other, but they are also still vastly different. Their military structures, capabilities, organization, weapons, etc. are very different from eachother. I think the tendency for people to view the Mechanicum and AdMech as being synonymous and the whole "technology hasn't changed in 10k years" thing leads people to assume that the Mechanicus would still be organized and fighting the same way they were 10k years prior, but that is explicitly not true in the fluff.

About to make a start on 10 Missile Launchers. All seems pretty straight forward!

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Adding onto the descussion about 30k Mechanicum - anyone else here feel it was the correct course of action to have 40k Mechanicum units feature very little and that the 30k Mechanicum is a VERY different beast to it's 10k older incarnation?

At first, I was fully on board with 40k Mechanicum being fully in 30k Mechanicum, until I started reading the fluff of the 30k Mechanicum and realised a lot, if not all of the 40k Mechanicum units came about because of what happened in 30k. Why there are no ultra deadly hunter killer robots, or literal walking ordinance tech priests and why a lot of the more 'indipendant' units got mothballed. While I am cynical to believe that it's always about making cash, the whole story with the schism of Mars and the unspeakable techno horrors that were unleashed really hit home why certain gak was locked away and should never be used.

Essentially, while I agree Skittari and other things that WERE present in 30k should be there, I'd rather 30k Mech be the strange techno wonder it is, than the super safe 40k it becomes due to them abandoning certain things due to it nearly causing the Mechanicum to... Not exist.

Yep, 100%. I think many people calling for 40k Mechanicum in 30k and vice versa are people who haven't dug deep into the fluff. The MECHANICUM of the 30k era are a very different organization from the ADEPTUS MECHANICUS of the 40k era. I capitalized those names for a reason - to highlight that they are different, they refer to different things and they are not interchangeable (despite the tendency of the fanbase to treat them as such) - its like referring to the Third Reich as the Weimar Republic, or referring to the Weimar Republic as the German Kaiserreich, etc. There is clear continuity between them, some of the people are the same, etc. by virtue of one leading into the other, but they are also still vastly different. Their military structures, capabilities, organization, weapons, etc. are very different from eachother. I think the tendency for people to view the Mechanicum and AdMech as being synonymous and the whole "technology hasn't changed in 10k years" thing leads people to assume that the Mechanicus would still be organized and fighting the same way they were 10k years prior, but that is explicitly not true in the fluff.

Okay, structures, names, organisations change. Tactics might have changed too. You’re also correct about some technological changes (ironstriders for example, dating from M33).

However, I think you’re exaggerating the difference. The rules we’ve had in HH are really just very detailed rules for the Legio Cybernetica (with a bit of Ordo Reductor thrown in). The Skitarii Legions were definitely a thing in 30K and there have never been rules for them. Now it could be that the Skitarii of 30K looked and operated very differently from the Skitarii of 40K. I don’t have a problem with that. On the other hand though, they could have just put a small number of 40K plastic Skitarii options into the army and made it much cheaper to collect, without, I think, spoiling the 30K flavour.

Especially when there is the Secutarii who can use the plastic Skitarii, why not give them the landing craft and fliers to keep up with the titans they protect? Or add in electro priests as a retinue for some techpriest instead of just the bitty battle automata? Kataphrons as cheap and crude troops for ordo reductor.

Yeah, didn't the elctropriests predate the mechanicum??

I like that Admech is more restrained but there still needs to be some of the "unrestrained" technology. Which the Mechanicum has in spades.

But I agree that some of the Skitarii units should be in the Mechanicum army lost, which ones are subject to discussion but at MIN Vanguards/Rangers and give them terrax at a pts discount.

Isn't the Ordo Reductor still around? The guys who invented the Thallax? I doubt they'd just drop their favorite murder toys like Andy from Toy Story. At the very least, I'd like a Mechanicum subfaction that uses the cool stuff from Forge World in 40k. I might even play it again if I got to bring Thallax against my friend's Guilliarch (Patriarch using Guilliman's body).

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
Isn't the Ordo Reductor still around? The guys who invented the Thallax? I doubt they'd just drop their favorite murder toys like Andy from Toy Story.

A lot of the Reductor & Cybernetica stuff was on the 'wrong side' of the new Adeptus Mechanicus - too based on organics and therefor open to corruption.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
At the very least, I'd like a Mechanicum subfaction that uses the cool stuff from Forge World in 40k. I might even play it again if I got to bring Thallax against my friend's Guilliarch (Patriarch using Guilliman's body).

"Fires of Cyraxus" was going to be the book that had the 30k stuff for 40k, but it got caught in an edition change and low FW Mechanicum sales.

beast_gts wrote:

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
Isn't the Ordo Reductor still around? The guys who invented the Thallax? I doubt they'd just drop their favorite murder toys like Andy from Toy Story.

A lot of the Reductor & Cybernetica stuff was on the 'wrong side' of the new Adeptus Mechanicus - too based on organics and therefor open to corruption.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
At the very least, I'd like a Mechanicum subfaction that uses the cool stuff from Forge World in 40k. I might even play it again if I got to bring Thallax against my friend's Guilliarch (Patriarch using Guilliman's body).

"Fires of Cyraxus" was going to be the book that had the 30k stuff for 40k, but it got caught in an edition change and low FW Mechanicum sales.

Also that whole Alan Bligh dying thing.

Our Favourite Legion Upgrades From Warhammer: The Horus Heresy – Aeronautica Imperialis - WarCom

A HH version of AA was coming the minute Marines got stuff for the game, especially considering everything but the Thunderhawk are supposed to be relics for modern Chapters. Heck, the Xiphon was outdated by the Heresy.

With all the emphasis being on marines for the foreseeable, has there been any mention of Blackshields?

None so far but Knights Errant got a mention as being in a future campaign book so there's a chance Blackshields and Shattered Legions could come back.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
With all the emphasis being on marines for the foreseeable, has there been any mention of Blackshields?

The Legacies PDF mentioned that both Blackshields and Knights Errant would be getting rules in a future publication:

In the previous edition of the Horus Heresy, we have presented rules for the Knights-Errant and Blackshields. This PDF provides rules for several unique characters, but does not contain the full rules for these iconic factions of the Age of Darkness. Instead, both the Blackshields and Knights-Errant will be presented as factions with complete rules in a future Warhammer: The Horus Heresy - Age of Darkness publication.