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I opened a thread in Army Lists on a 2500 point Ard Boyz Dark Eldar list.  I've been told by a few people to use Webway Portals to avoid being shot down in the first turn.  I've had a lot of success with my Dark Eldar but have never used a WWP before and am a little hesitant. 

So I've opened up this thread for you all to share your tips and tricks and how you've found WWP's to be useful.

Note: I plan on using an Archon on a jetbike and a Dracon in a Raider with Incubi.  Could I use a sybarite or two as the delivery method?

Thanks in advance for the help,

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I use WWP all of the time now. You cannot count on terrain for the list you have and those cardboard raiders/ravagers will fall out of the sky if you don't get turn 1, just like people were telling you.

I like to use an IC, since they cannot be targeted easily. I set them up, in cover on the edge of my DZ, near the middle if I can, making sure my opponent does not have anything that can get to them. Then on my turn 1 I move them forward with a raider placed right infont of the IC. The objective is to open the portal as close to the center as possible. It is very very hard to get out of range if wyches have 12" assault out of a raider that moved 12".

On their turn all they can do is shoot the raider (make sure it is empty). It cannot blow up since you can only glance it and next thing you know you have a Size 3 piece of area terrain blocking LOS to the IC with the portal.

On my next turn I open it up. People show up on turn 3. That gives you turn 2 and turn 3 to roll for reserves (since you roll even if the portal is not open). With 2 rolls for reserves most of my army is waiting to come in on turn 3.

There are no rules that say you cannot open one from a raider, as long as you do not move that turn. Also a character in a squad can open it while the rest of the squad shoots.

You could modify your list to give yourself 3 Haemoncului, add them to a raider squad of 5 guys. Hide each one behind terrain if possible on turn 1 and when you get to go fly them all to the center of the board 24". They will all get shot down, and you will be entangled for a turn, but when you are free again and safe behind your size 3 terrain, open up the portal.

This would be very important if there is a patrol mission.

I would keep the archon and some incubi in the portal along with the wyches and those ravagers. Make all of the ravagers into dis ravagers. Target anything ourside of your portal assault range with them.

Things to rememeber.

1) Deep Striking units can kill you on turn 2
2) Necron lords with a viel can get you on turn 1
3) Infiltrators or units with Scout can get you on turn 1
4) You do not have to tell your opponent who has the portal (Think Chaos daemon vessel)
5) Watch for the drift on Turn 1 non-LOS shooting

Nevermore

NeverMore:

Are you sure? The BGB does not state this as far as I can tell. The wreckage should be WYSIWYG--though I guess that should be enough to protect your IC.

a word about the WWP watch where you place it.

 

ive seen DE get destroyed because thier portal was surrounded on all sides. as it counts as a vehicle for disembarkment/movement onto the table, all units coming through it are automatically destroyed.

Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 09/14/2007 10:01 PM
NeverMore:

On their turn all they can do is shoot the raider (make sure it is empty). It cannot blow up since you can only glance it and next thing you know you have a Size 3 piece of area terrain blocking LOS to the IC with the portal.

Are you sure? The BGB does not state this as far as I can tell. The wreckage should be WYSIWYG--though I guess that should be enough to protect your IC.

You're right to be suspicious, TC.  It's not area terrain.  It acts as difficult terrain and provides a cover save of 4+, but only blocks LOS up to its height.

Posted By mughi3 on 09/15/2007 12:54 AM

a word about the WWP watch where you place it.

 ive seen DE get destroyed because thier portal was surrounded on all sides. as it counts as a vehicle for disembarkment/movement onto the table, all units coming through it are automatically destroyed.

This is wrong too.  It counts as a piece of the table edge, not a vehicle.  Skimmers can fly right over the enemy units.

WWP is ridiculously awesome.  It turns DE from an army utterly dependent on lots of terrain or getting first turn into an army that can ALWAYS compete and usually butcher most armies.

Xtapl just wrote up a basic tactical overview over on TWF:

http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/viewtopic.php?t=33248

Sorry for the mistake TC, yes it is difficult terrain, not area. The goal is to give the IC holding the WWP something to hide behind. Pg 7 BGB says the IC would be size 2, and the vehicle is size 3. pg 68 BGB Wrecks count as blocking LOS as if they were intact, thus after it is shot it is a size 3 piece of difficult terrain that you cannot shot through. As long as you hug the back of it and state you are not in the wreckage it makes it very hard for someone to get LOS on the WWP carrier.

I forgot to mention protecting the portal. Make sure you have a copy of the DE FAQ handy, it explains it well. However the important parts are these:

1) Surrounded portal means foot infantry cannot come out, but are not destroyed, they will wait until they can come out, or the game ends
2) all DE vehicles can just fly over a surrounded portal. they don't have to obey the 1" rule until they land
3) jet bikes are the same
4) jump infantry cannot come out, have to wait
5) Talos I think would have to wait, but it would be a decent debate since during the movement phase he moves as a skimmer....

So if your opponent asks if the portal can be blocked, the answer is yes, if completely surrounded, nothing can walk out. Then when they try they get closer, like a moth to the flame.........


a Few more things of note, read Xtapl's list, he has been playing a long time. Also think about this combo. Wych succubus with agoniser, splinter pistol, and tormentor helm equals 5 attacks on the charge with hitting most everything a 3+. If you happen to get re-roll for combat drugs then it just gets nasty.

Nevermore

Thanks for the help and for the link. I agree that the portal is a board edge so no parking a tank on top of it and skimmers can still fly over the infantry surrounding it.

One thing though, I thought it was FAQ'd (don't have it with me) that a tormentor helm only gives +1 attack if the bearer is using a 2-handed weapon or riding a bike, i.e. you can't stack the effect with a pistol? Even a RAW reading would support this, having two pistols doesn't increase your attacks any more than +1.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

That is not the rules for LOS though. This is an old and bitter debate but you use model eye view for LOS and the size levels only matter for area terrain and determining LOS through combat. A vehcile not locked in close comabt (and by pg 68 a wreck) is treated much like a hill: you look and see by a models eyere view if you can see your target.


I hope you are joking, cause that is pretty f'd up. You shouldn't try and win by being a charlatan.

Raiders are pretty big vehicles, it shouldn't be a problem to hide an IC behind them as a wreck.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Winterman - good point for LOS through my raider after it is a wreck, I have never had anyone have a problem with it, but I will keep this in mind. Maybe I will just turn it on it side or add cotton for smoke so you can't see through it. I stopped trying to figure out the Z-axis in 40k when someone told me they could hide their DP behind a rhino when I could clearly see the upper half of it.

Now, though this is not the place for it, my being a charlatan (potentially). My argument needs to be taken in context with what we are talking about, so let me define it a bit and maybe I won't seem like such a mean guy.

1) We are talking about a list to take to 'Ard Boyz where sportsmanship is not graded and people are trying to build the biggest cheese they can. Oz here has a good non-cheese list, so with that alone, at this tournament, yea I would do that and sleep fine afterwards

2) I have never done it btw. I explain the portal often to opponents. I tell them to treat it just like a round board edge. It acts 100% exactly the same. Only thing is my army, that I am holding in reserve must come through it once they are designated to do so at the beginning of the game. Therefore if my opponent starts to probe with questions like "so what if I have models in the way so they cannot come out"? Then I explain that they could do that and I would not be allowed to move my infantry out, but I can fly skimmers and such out.

3) If someone has the army with the kind of speed it would take to surround my portal after I open it and they are probing with questions about surrounding it, then and only then do I have to make the call. Do I purposefully tell them that if they surround it then I cannot walk out, and mislead them or do I explain it will do them no good since I can still fly out? Honestly I may do something different every time, it is a judgment call. You are asking me if I could be that mean, taking the fun out of the game by misleading someone on purpose, but look at the context, this opponent is trying to figure out a "legal" way to keep 75% of my army off of the table. I don't think he/she is really playing to have fun at that point, so I would not feel bad about.

So like I mentioned I have never done it, but if I felt someone was trying to cheat me by surrounding my portal, I don't think I would have a problem doing it.

Nevermore

Oz,



It was just an option I thought you may not know about. I have been playing DE for 10 years and I just figured it out a few months back. If it is not for you then it is not for you.

However to you question above.

1) I have never seen anything FAQ'd about it. It is not in the DE FAQ that I have.
2) The basis of the +1 to attack is that you have a weapon in each hand. So having a CCW in 1 and pistol in the other or having 2 pistols is still just +1 to attack, I agree
3) The tormentor helm sits on your head and is a "neurally activated splinter pistol that can be fired by thought alone"

Now the part I think you are getting stuck on, the example given in the codex. I will type it in here exactly as written:

This allows the model to use the pistol even if he is carrying something in both hands (like a punisher for example).

It goes on to state that it would give the +1 to attack even if you are using a 2-handed weapon, but it never defines the something in both hands as a single something, it just uses the punisher as an example.

I know some reading this are screaming "loop hole", so let's look at some other armies for some help. 3 examples come to mind.

1) Nids - scything talons, for each one given, you get another attack up to +2 ( so above and beyond the one in each hand)
2) CURRENT Chaos - mutation +1 to attack ( so above and beyond the one in each hand)
3) And finally the best example, Eldar Striking Scorpions mandiblasters +1 attack ( so above and beyond the one in each hand)

Now the Eldar one is the best because the Scorps have what?
Base attacks are 1
They come with a pistol and a 1-handed chainsword and
mandiblasters
How are the mandiblasters used? The codex says they are "Activated by psychic pick-up...", thus mentally activated.

So with a base attack of 1, these guys get 3 attacks in CC not counting charge bonuses because of the +1 for the additional CCW and the mandiblasters +1.

Therefore since nothing in and FAQ or DE codex says that I cannot do it, and every example I can find says additional attacks can be cumulative if done with the correct wargear options, I see no reason that I cannot use the combo I mentioned above. If you find something that says I cannot, please let me know.

Nevermore

NeverMore,

I saw it when I first started playing, but the counts as splinter pistol part throws me off. More than one pistol does not stack so I don't personally believe that it would count. This would fall into the "I'm not sure its legal so I'm not going to do it" category of the rules for me. Flip side is that I wouldn't really prevent you from doing it unless I could find a rules/FAQ quote (which I recall seeing but can't remember where).

Maybe we should start a thread in the YMDC section and let people argue it for a few pages...

@Everyone: I've posted a new army list in Tactics, let me know what you think.

Ozymandias, King of Kings