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 Rolsheen wrote:
The US Coast Guard currently operate "snipers" from helicopters to shoot out the engines of drug runner speed boats is it such a stretch of the imagination to believe 40,000 years from now there isn't the technology to do it from the back of a bike,

Sure they would have the tech in some type of auto targeting system for the weapon, we already have those. They can calculate the shot for you based on distance, wind speed/direction, longitude/latitude, altitude, humidity and barometric pressure. I would definitely buy that an alien race known for advanced tech would have this capability. That's also a much easier fluff piece to write than whatever nonsense they ended up using about battle trances...

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Miss the part where it has nothing to do with technology and is achieved through a "marksmen's trance", eh?

So if it was a Tau or AdMech sniper doing with with sci-fi technology, it'd be fine, but an Eldar sniper doing with the mojo-trance or a sniper-Daemon doing it with warpsight isn't ok?

They are all none-sense explanations.

Yes. Yes they are. The entire concept is dumb.

Toofast wrote:


We mounted a 249 to an ATV and had an M60 in the bed of a Hilux. We shot from moving platforms, it's just that single shot, bolt action rifles are a terrible weapon for that role. If you're moving, you want full auto. That's probably why every moving vehicle with a weapon on it since WWI has had some type of machine gun or at least an assault rifle.

Yes. But if this was 40K, you'd probably instead bolt a combat-lawnmower to those things instead to chop up dudes as you fly through them. Or microwave-throwers that melt a hole into the enemy bunker so you can shoot living soldiers through it that have been buffed-up by Cthulu-Magic-surgery when they where teenagers.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toofast wrote:

Sure they would have the tech in some type of auto targeting system for the weapon, we already have those. They can calculate the shot for you based on distance, wind speed/direction, longitude/latitude, altitude, humidity and barometric pressure. I would definitely buy that an alien race known for advanced tech would have this capability. That's also a much easier fluff piece to write than whatever nonsense they ended up using about battle trances...

Why all that technology-fetish? Why would technology be a better, more suitable explanation for anything in 40K?

The entire premise of 40K, not just the eldar, is essentially the opposite.

The one faction in 40K that does things like ... say ... Space Travel via "technology" is leaps and bounds the worst at it. That's not a coincidence. Even humans prefer to clairvoyance-voyage their way through literal hell in flying cathedrals protected by prayer-scripts instead. Much more efficient.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Galef wrote:

I don't really see the difference between a Lance weapon hitting something while moving fast vs a sniper rifle. Rangers are trained to use snipers, so putting them on a moving platform seems no different than putting a Guardian on the back of a Vyper to shoot a heavy weapon.
-

Because hitting a large target like a tank with a dedicated tank weapon on a fast moving platform isn't the same thing as making a precision killshot against a human sized or smaller target on a fast moving platform, "marksman's trance" or not.

Ya know, if those Heavy weapons could only hit large targets like tanks and Monster, you'd have a point.
But they can be used to hit INFANTRY models too, with no additional penalty for them being "smaller" targets.
Also, if snipers could actually achieve "precision killshots", you'd have another point.
But since sniper rifles are MAX damage 2 wounds (1 from the initial shot, another IF you roll a 6 for a MW), they aren't exactly 1-shoting Characters. A unit of 5 infantry Rangers aren't even likely to kill most lowly support Characters, so 3 Shroud Runners are even LESS likely to do so.

So yeah, the idea of Space Elves flying around sniping big boss characters is indeed ridiculous and thankfully isn't even close to what Shroud runners can actually do.

-

Toofast wrote:When I was in the military, we used ATVs and technicals, and we had snipers, but a sniper shooting from a moving ATV or technical was never in the plans. I wonder why...

When you were in the military, did you also have aliens, psychically gifted individuals, genetically-modified supersoldiers and jetbikes?

Platuan4th wrote:

 Galef wrote:

I don't really see the difference between a Lance weapon hitting something while moving fast vs a sniper rifle. Rangers are trained to use snipers, so putting them on a moving platform seems no different than putting a Guardian on the back of a Vyper to shoot a heavy weapon.
-

Because hitting a large target like a tank with a dedicated tank weapon on a fast moving platform isn't the same thing as making a precision killshot against a human sized or smaller target on a fast moving platform, "marksman's trance" or not.

There's no difference mechanically in size of target though. A lance weapon can still shoot at a single person-sized target just fine.

Sunny Side Up wrote:


Why all that technology-fetish? Why would technology be a better, more suitable explanation for anything in 40K?

Because you already have AoS to fill the bill with the nonsense magical brainfarts.

 NAVARRO wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:


Why all that technology-fetish? Why would technology be a better, more suitable explanation for anything in 40K?

Because you already have AoS to fill the bill with the nonsense magical brainfarts.

You have Bolt Action or whatever, if you want realism, lol.

OK, let's settle it. If you can't grasp that Eldar can fire sniper rifles from jetbikes then you can't play Eldar and should definitely not buy the models. Should be good.

Once again, this isn't that hard to understand. It doesn't matter whether there's fluff justification or not. It just looks stupid to a lot of people to have a sniper flying around on a jetbike, and doesn't really fit with their idea of how the battle should look. There's no reason for someone with a sniper rifle to be zipping around different places on a battlefield that's like 50 yards across.

And other people think it looks cool, and don't think it needs any justification, just like how the jetbike rider can aim the jetbike weapon at anything he's not flying toward while he'd driving.

 dan2026 wrote:
People arguing whether magic space elves can snipe from the back of a flying space bike is ridiculous.

Of course they can. They are magic space elves, with millenia of strange and seemingly impossible technology.

Of all the bizarre impossible gak in 40k, this is what people get caught up on?
Ok..

And they're also all a bit psychic in a universe where psychic powers frequently grant predestination viewing. Which is handy for aiming.

Sniper jet bikes are my fav new Eldar models - looking forward to getting some and having them painted.

I'm willing to accept the idea that a race of psychic aliens known for extreme agility and lightning fast reflexes would be capable of pulling some Jedi shenanigans and accurately shooting precision sniper fire from a rapidly moving jetbike.

Mobility is actually the most important part of a traditional sniper's role, make the shot and move before return fire can get you.

It's quite useful for a unit like this to be able to constantly hug max range, redeploy to change firing positions and for once is a pretty good depiction of the superhuman reflexes/ eyesight/ dexterity that the eldar have.

I'll be doing a different paintjob with mine, though, the green camo cloak hiding a bright red jetbike is far more silly, will go with grey/white camo and picture the in-game effect as more of a holo-field thing, if anything that's the part of the fluff that doesn't quite work for me.

scarletsquig wrote:
It's quite useful for a unit like this to be able to constantly hug max range, redeploy to change firing positions and for once is a pretty good depiction of the superhuman reflexes/ eyesight/ dexterity that the eldar have.

Shame their rules don't fit with that, really.

The only thing this rediculous argument has done is make me decide to buy and paint the sniper jetbikes out of spite.

To expand on the example earlier, this is a setting where not only does fungus go on a ramage en masse, their guns and tanks and SPACESHIPS only work through the power of belief. Literal fething magic. But space elves entering Bullet Time is too much. A Vindicare Assassin literally jumping off a tower, parachuting through an entire armies worth of return fire, kill-shotting the general and while dodging a squadrion of Thunderbolt fighters and headshootting the pilots is fine. But elf snipers that can concentrate, THAT'S too much? Feth right off.

Lol… it’s toy soldiers kids. Lighten up.

Dread Master wrote:
Lol… it’s toy soldiers kids. Lighten up.

If it's just toy soldiers for kids, why are you here?

Of all the dumb things I've seen on Dakka, the dumbest one ever might be "I'm going to buy and paint this model JUST TO upset the people who don't like it... who aren't going to care, because them not liking it makes me angry".

Okay, so any takers on what they'll preview next monday?

New Farseer? A plastic Wraithseer? Gasp - a new Falcon?

SamusDrake wrote:
Okay, so any takers on what they'll preview next monday?

New Farseer? A plastic Wraithseer? Gasp - a new Falcon?

Well, it’ll depend what we see on Friday.

People IS doing far more impresive stuff in COD por Battlefield with Sniper rifles than shooting people as a pasenger in a móviles platform.

SamusDrake wrote:
Okay, so any takers on what they'll preview next monday?

New Farseer? A plastic Wraithseer? Gasp - a new Falcon?

I don't know, but it definitely won't be any of those.

Maybe this is a generational thing, but I still have no idea why there are people here saying that a unit that specializes in full-speed motorcycle sniper headshots is anything other than cool as hell.

 Flipsiders wrote:
Maybe this is a generational thing, but I still have no idea why there are people here saying that a unit that specializes in full-speed motorcycle sniper headshots is anything other than cool as hell.

because 40k is based on all you need is kill, ie damage output (barring some silly strat to push sales), and the majority of Sniper units in the game have been subpar in the regard for a few editions now, also not Troops

"I'm going to buy and paint this model JUST TO upset the people who don't like it... who aren't going to care, because them not liking it makes me angry".

"because them not liking it makes me *amused*"

Fixed that for ya. You're assuming I'm now buying one because other peple will care that I own one, I'm doing it entirely for me. 3 pages of arguments about "how silly and unrealistic they are" made me take a second look and actually pay attention to the model & fluff that I had previously completely ignored. Moved me from ambivelant to interested. Every argument against the sniperbikes just gets sillier and sillier.

It's like orange soda. Not my favorite drink and not something I'd normally order, but it's tasty. If somebody spend all afternoon arguing that was awful, and YOU should also find it awful, no really, look how awful it is, then I'd probably order one out of spite because I like it well enough. Then I'd be hyper aware of the taste the entire time I was drinking it and would probably enjoy it more than if I'd just ordered my favorite drink. Sniper bikes are orange soda: mediocre and I wouldn't have thought to order them, but people overplayed the hate, and now that I'm looking at it I'm gonna enjoy it more than if they hadn't ever said anything.

Because now that I think about it, snipers on jetbikes doing Space Elf Bullet-Time is pretty darn rad!

 Flipsiders wrote:
Maybe this is a generational thing, but I still have no idea why there are people here saying that a unit that specializes in full-speed motorcycle sniper headshots is anything other than cool as hell.

I think some just grew up serious and some of us retained our -- geekish youthful ways

If they somehow make sniper rifles a great option, they can write whatever fluff they want.

Marines got las cannon sniper rifles and Im like "most ingenious sir, dont mind if I do!"

Warlocks, I have to say really like the new one but the old ones have their charm too.

The stances on the older ones, really cool sword stances also really nice helmets. These have been lost on the new ones which is a real shame.

Still it is mostly up.

If it wasn't for the thickness of the swords and lack of details maybe the older ones would be the better!

Wraithseer would be awesome. I didn't even know that model existed, must have been released during one of my non-hobby periods. I'd definitely buy a plastic kit of that.

 bullyboy wrote:
OK, let's settle it. If you can't grasp that Eldar can fire sniper rifles from jetbikes then you can't play Eldar and should definitely not buy the models. Should be good.

I didn't have a problem with the Shroud Runners. I thought they were excellent minis and if they're shooting sniper rifles from bikes then, y'know, whatever. It's not the dumbest thing in 40k, after all.

Buuuuuuuuuut, it seems that even the people writing the fluff for them knew that shooting sniper rifles from a fast-moving jetbike was stupid, and so they had to justify it with this weird "battle trance" nonsense to make it work for them. That alone shows that they knew what we know: Precision snipers zipping around on super-fast hover bikes is a really silly concept.

They'd've been better off just doing nothing and never justifying it. This is the 40k fluff equivalent of "the lady doth protest too much".