Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/09/15 21:06:22
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Yup they get back new and shiny, to the full starting strength. Its only bad if the unit is destroyed, because you can't use it. One Kathapron must stay with at least 1W. This could add us something 400 points. The problem is ass right now, they are not worthy those 420 pts in first place.
Then this is amazingly, amazingly good. Easily better than Mars, perhaps broken levels of OP.
Kataphrons are only bad because they cost a lot and are glass cannons. But if the opponent has to table them, that changes things. 6x Kataphrons have 18 wounds and shoot 6D6 of the most efficient ranged weapon in the game. You can totally replace it for 3 CP, and reposition it at will. FOUR times with a single Brigade, a Brigade that is going to be shelling the opponent while you're constantly threatening his backline. Plus you get 5+ Overwatch (no modifiers!).
Iago40k wrote: The question is if 420 pponts worth of destroyers could work as a screen that would survive with at least one wound a massive first turn charge. If so I see some potential.
You get to choose where to deploy it at the end of YOUR Movement Phase, so as long as you know your opponent's units' threat bubbles, they probably won't be able to charge you in time.
They are not gonna survive 20 Khorne berserkers guaranteed turn one charge. Not even first turn of their attacks. (alpha legion have similar stratgem to lucius one, ad sorcerer to that to give them ability to move an they are 100% in)
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
2017/09/15 21:09:27
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Yup they get back new and shiny, to the full starting strength. Its only bad if the unit is destroyed, because you can't use it. One Kathapron must stay with at least 1W. This could add us something 400 points. The problem is ass right now, they are not worthy those 420 pts in first place.
Then this is amazingly, amazingly good. Easily better than Mars, perhaps broken levels of OP.
Kataphrons are only bad because they cost a lot and are glass cannons. But if the opponent has to table them, that changes things. 6x Kataphrons have 18 wounds and shoot 6D6 of the most efficient ranged weapon in the game. You can totally replace it for 3 CP, and reposition it at will. FOUR times with a single Brigade, a Brigade that is going to be shelling the opponent while you're constantly threatening his backline. Plus you get 5+ Overwatch (no modifiers!).
Iago40k wrote: The question is if 420 pponts worth of destroyers could work as a screen that would survive with at least one wound a massive first turn charge. If so I see some potential.
You get to choose where to deploy it at the end of YOUR Movement Phase, so as long as you know your opponent's units' threat bubbles, they probably won't be able to charge you in time.
They are not gonna survive 20 Khorne berserkers guaranteed turn one charge. Not even first turn of their attacks. (alpha legion have similar stratgem to lucius one, ad sorcerer to that to give them ability to move an they are 100% in)
Thats what Vanguard are for, to screen your units. Are they the best? no, but they can survive and they even weaken the enemy for your countercharge
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/15 21:10:11
17,000 points (Valhallan)
10,000 points
6,000 points (Order of Our Martyred Lady)
Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 7 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 8 Armigers
Stormcast Eternals: 7,000 points
"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"
-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer
2017/09/15 21:09:49
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Arachnofiend wrote:Are you going to be able to afford a Brigade with that many Kataphrons in your list? It's a pretty expensive unit even if you only get one unit of them and fill the rest of your troop slots with Vanguard/Rangers you're paying a lot more than other Brigade-fielding armies do for your troops.
Hold my fermented digestive lubrication product.
EDIT: Actually, looking at that list again, we might just cut down on the taxes and make the entire thing Agripinaa:
Heavy Support - 766 1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Smoke Launcher
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Smoke Launcher
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Smoke Launcher
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Smoke Launcher
2x Kastelan Robot - Heavy Phosphor Blasters, Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters
Total: 2000 points 12 Command Points
This assumes Skitarii (my bubble-wrap) come down to 9/8 points each, but everything else costs the same. No Cawl, but the rerolling 1 is fine for the Destroyers, and if you really needed to bring something down, you can use Elimination Volley.
To be honest, I am still holding out for deep striking Mechanicum Knights, but this is interesting as well.
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Suzuteo, no need for more than one squad. Can't do this strategem more than once per phase.
They are not gonna survive 20 Khorne berserkers guaranteed turn one charge. Not even first turn of their attacks. (alpha legion have similar stratgem to lucius one, ad sorcerer to that to give them ability to move an they are 100% in)
And we will have a crapton of bubble wrap for that?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/15 21:30:11
2017/09/15 22:31:53
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Summary of what we dont know thus far
28 stratagems - 7 fw specific ones, 1 knight one and the 3 base ones
13 warlord traits - 7 fw specific, 6 generic
Apparently the Knight trait is "Knight of the Cog" no cost or duration or when it activates but something to the effect of "Knight within 12 inches of a TPD gets Canticles"
3000
4000
2017/09/15 22:32:35
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Also you can only place the new ones in your deployment zone within 6" of the table edge AND 9" away from enemies. Does really having the unit get blasted off the table and come back from the very back of the field be that helpful?
Yup they get back new and shiny, to the full starting strength. Its only bad if the unit is destroyed, because you can't use it. One Kathapron must stay with at least 1W. This could add us something 400 points. The problem is ass right now, they are not worthy those 420 pts in first place.
Then this is amazingly, amazingly good. Easily better than Mars, perhaps broken levels of OP.
Kataphrons are only bad because they cost a lot and are glass cannons. But if the opponent has to table them, that changes things. 6x Kataphrons have 18 wounds and shoot 6D6 of the most efficient ranged weapon in the game. You can totally replace it for 3 CP, and reposition it at will. FOUR times with a single Brigade, a Brigade that is going to be shelling the opponent while you're constantly threatening his backline. Plus you get 5+ Overwatch (no modifiers!).
Iago40k wrote: The question is if 420 pponts worth of destroyers could work as a screen that would survive with at least one wound a massive first turn charge. If so I see some potential.
You get to choose where to deploy it at the end of YOUR Movement Phase, so as long as you know your opponent's units' threat bubbles, they probably won't be able to charge you in time.
They are not gonna survive 20 Khorne berserkers guaranteed turn one charge. Not even first turn of their attacks. (alpha legion have similar stratgem to lucius one, ad sorcerer to that to give them ability to move an they are 100% in)
Is this a separate detachments greatest hits CSM army to get the stratagem to deepstrike and to have a sorc which cant be khorne for warptime?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/15 22:34:23
2017/09/15 23:00:19
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Jaynen wrote: Also you can only place the new ones in your deployment zone within 6" of the table edge AND 9" away from enemies. Does really having the unit get blasted off the table and come back from the very back of the field be that helpful?
Sure it is; their main guns are 30" and 36". Ignoring terrain, you will basically always be able to come back on and shoot something worthwhile unless literally all they have that you care about is way back in a corner, and even that only matters on half of the deployment maps.
Is this a separate detachments greatest hits CSM army to get the stratagem to deepstrike and to have a sorc which cant be khorne for warptime?
Alpha Legion can do all of this stuff no problem.
2017/09/15 23:04:26
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Jaynen wrote: Also you can only place the new ones in your deployment zone within 6" of the table edge AND 9" away from enemies. Does really having the unit get blasted off the table and come back from the very back of the field be that helpful?
Sure it is; their main guns are 30" and 36". Ignoring terrain, you will basically always be able to come back on and shoot something worthwhile unless literally all they have that you care about is way back in a corner, and even that only matters on half of the deployment maps.
Is this a separate detachments greatest hits CSM army to get the stratagem to deepstrike and to have a sorc which cant be khorne for warptime?
Alpha Legion can do all of this stuff no problem.
Yep, single detachment alpha legion. No greatest hits. Berserkers are Khorne as standard I think, but sorcerers can choose their mark, and you can have mixed daemon worshippers in one detachment as long as they're all the same legion.
Fluff-wise, it would make them a chaos undivided Alpha Legion detachment. Perfectly legit. Also pretty good.
2017/09/15 23:11:47
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Summary of what we dont know thus far
28 stratagems - 7 fw specific ones, 1 knight one and the 3 base ones
13 warlord traits - 7 fw specific, 6 generic
Apparently the Knight trait is "Knight of the Cog" no cost or duration or when it activates but something to the effect of "Knight within 12 inches of a TPD gets Canticles"
No <Forge World>? NOOOOOO...
Jaynen wrote: Also you can only place the new ones in your deployment zone within 6" of the table edge AND 9" away from enemies. Does really having the unit get blasted off the table and come back from the very back of the field be that helpful?
Yes. Redeploying 6 Kataphrons anywhere you want in your deployment zone and then immediately shooting is a big deal. You are essentially summoning 420 points worth of shooting with 3CP, and your opponent has to dump virtually everything on them for one turn to try and get rid of them.
Then there are the combat tricks. You can use them defensively, since they have that double overwatch. Just drop them directly in between your artillery and some enemy unit. Once they engage, assuming they fail to wipe your unit out, you can pull them out of CC with the stratagem, drop them another 24" away, and shoot again. You can also use them to capture and deny objectives, since they are troops and have objective secured.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/15 23:44:48
2017/09/15 23:46:19
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
ross-128 wrote: TBH servitors would be great if we could put heavy bolters on the whole squad instead of just half of them. The big thing that hurts them is half the squad is stuck paying for what are basically powerfists, when they don't have the stats to make good use of them. And powerfists ain't cheap.
I think (and hope) they intend to do this, as it would buff their sales considerably. I know I'd buy at least a 4 man squad.
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
2017/09/15 23:58:15
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
For real. 3 knight lists now have a reason to bring 3 enginseers as babysitters, but that is it.
I think the hands down, best possible admech list is going to be a full 2000 point Mars Brigade. The strategems have ways of generating HUGE damage out of a 4-6 phosphorbot deathball. You can double shoot on the first turn and ace magnus. You can even move the robots and spend a CP to have them ignore the movement penalty. And if you are weird and bring kataphrons, you can even add +1 to their hit rolls! The phosphorbot deathball is guaranteed to erase 400 points of models ever turn it successfully shoots.
I kind of understand running lucius if you were super serious about infantry because deep strike. Or possibly Stygies VIII because they have ravenguard chapter tactics (-1 at 12") and ravenguard deployment tricks (word for word it is deploy at top of first battle round). These are cool defensive tricks, but you still would have no way to deal with magnus.
2017/09/16 00:16:58
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Some really cool stuff for stratagems and warlord traits in there. I especially like the one where you get a command point back on a 6+ if you OR YOUR OPPONENT use a stratagem! I love being able to screw with my opponent's head with things like this.
So far my favorite is still looking like Mars because of the stratagem to cause mortal wounds. I really like that Doctrina Imperatives are back. Elimination Maniple is back, and that stratagem is really damn good too.
Didn't get a good look at all of the Relics, but not a whole lot of them look any good to me. I really liked the one where you start with +1 Command Point but its Graia only.
2017/09/16 01:10:13
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Mars still seems like a no-brainer for Cawl and Wrathbots, at least in the main detachment. Stygies Dragoons are now crazy good for screening, as they can't be shifted with shooting (-2 to-hit is nuts). Not sure I will bother with more than that, honestly.
I feel like for general non forge world jumping play that Stygies or Lucian will be the best however. Because Lucian you get the AP-1 buff and teleportation which is arguably by far one of the best stratagems
2017/09/16 01:34:11
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Also, warlord trait where you can get CP whenever stratagem is used is good. This will net you 2-3 per game. Lucius, Stygies and Mars it is.
Sad for knights. They can't even be in same detachment with rest of ad mech.
Don't know what to think about that codex yet. For sure leaved me less impressed than CSMSM and DG one.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
2017/09/16 02:03:12
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Spera wrote: Also, warlord trait where you can get CP whenever stratagem is used is good. This will net you 2-3 per game. Lucius, Stygies and Mars it is.
Sad for knights. They can't even be in same detachment with rest of ad mech.
Don't know what to think about that codex yet. For sure leaved me less impressed than CSMSM and DG one.
To be fair, there's zero reason to take a Supreme Command as AdMech so you're going to tuck your knight into its own detachment regardless.
2017/09/16 02:18:42
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
whoa ryza gets a strategem where they add 1 to wound on plasma guns.... didn't get a good look but str 8 against a landraider is 4+? nope now it's a 3+
Automatically Appended Next Post: oh gak and damage.... wound and damage D3 shots wounding on 3 doing 3 damage each on a land raider? yes please.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Machine spirits revenge. Wait what? seriously? don't syndonians and ironstriders blow up?
Automatically Appended Next Post: generic warlord trait lets you re roll canticles
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 02:48:47
Random regurgitation of thoughts from that Winters SEO video.
Unit Changes
Belisarius Cawl: Repairs Imperium for 1 or Adeptus Mechanicus for D3 (no Questor Mechanicus; Winters SEO is mistaken)
Tech-Priest Dominus: Repairs <Forge World> for D3 or Questor Mechanicus for 1
Tech-Priest Enginseer: Now an HQ and repairs <Forge World> or <Astra Militarum> vehicles for D3 or Questor Mechanicus for 1
Skitarii Vanguard: Now costs 8. (Winters SEO might be mistaken.)
Skitarii Ranger: Now costs 9.
Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc rifle is cheaper (how much is unspecified)
Kastelan Robots: Protocols got changed. You need natural 6s for Aegis, and Protector is now 2x shots rather than 2x attacks.
Sicarian Infiltrators: -1A has been codified
Sydonian Dragoons: Taser Lances get AP-1
Mechanicum Knights: No Adeptus Mechanicus or <Forge World> keywords.
Stratagems
Binharic Override Makes Datasmiths optional. Plus you can do terrifying openings like Cawl and 4-6x Kastelans running up the board, use Binharic Override and Wrath of Mars, then immediately fire 108 rerollable shots...
Machine Spirit's Revenge Good. 1 CP to explode vehicles when they die.
Rotate Ion Shields Good. Makes a lone Knight ridiculously hard to bring down for one turn.
Warlord Traits
1 - Necromechanic Good. You can expect to get 1 CP for every 6 CP your opponent uses.
2 - Magos Biologis Bad.
3 - Mechadominator Situationally good.
4 - Necromechanic The best one by far. Stronger repairs let you aggressively trade wounds with other shooting armies.
5 - Chorister Technis Good. Better chance of Shroudpsalm.
6 - Prime Hermeticon Bad. Our infantry are still going to want to avoid fighting.
Arcana Mechanicum
Anzion's Pseudogenetor Mixed bag. Again, we're not looking to get into CC.
Autocaduceus of Arkhan LandNecromechanic
Good. You'll always need to repair stuff.
Uncreator Gauntlet Bad.
Phosphoenix Bad. Better than a Phosphor Serpenta.
Raiment of the Technomartyr GREAT. I think this only works on natural 6s, but wow, firing double Overwatch is monstrous for your Kastelans.
The Omniscient Mask Bad, since it has to go on a character, and our melee specialists deep strike or run twice as fast.
The Skull of Elder Nikola Bad. I wish Litany of the Electromancer did this...
Forge World Reviews
Mars Dogma: Good. Improves the chance that most of your artillery will have Shroudpsalm.
Stratagem: AWESOME. Lets you go through Stormshields like a machine gun through butter.
Warlord: Good. 9" bubble for Cawl's reroll aura lets your Crawlers spread out a bit more.
Conclusion: Definitely the best default option due to Cawl.
Graia Dogma: Good. Greatly improves Skitarii durability.
Stratagem: Too expensive, but nice try.
Warlord Trait: Okay. The big problem is the small bubble. 6" around your Warlord is not a lot of room, especially since Dominuses are not exactly the most mobile unit.
Conclusion: Probably your best choice if you are running mass infantry.
Metallica Dogma: Bad.
Stratagem: Doesn't really matter, since most horde armies can handle morale.
Warlord Trait: Good. Get out of CC card.
Conclusion: Skip.
Lucius Dogma: Good. Almost all anti-horde weapons have either AP0 or AP-1
Stratagem: This is what you take Lucius for. Great for Electro-Priests or pretty much anything that shoots.
Warlord Trait: Okay. Your Dominus gets 4++.
Conclusion: Good. I know it's what we expected to be the number one choice for a supporting detachment to Mars, but that is clearly going to be Stygies VIII.
Agripinaa Dogma: Mixed bag. If you are getting charged, you're screwed. Your hope is that you don't have to use this Dogma.
Stratagem: Seem VERY overpowered. This may be the only Forge World where you can give up Cawl and be okay.
Warlord Trait: Okay. Your Dominus pretty much cannot be killed by hordes.
Conclusion: Potentially broken interactions. Alternative to Mars.
Stygies VIII Dogma: AWESOME. Wow.
Stratagem: AWESOME. ANOTHER DEEP STRIKE?!
Warlord Trait: Situationally good.
Conclusion: Raven Guard, Mechanicum-style. Alternative to Mars. As a supporting detachment, definitely put Ironstriders into this detachment. It makes Dragoons incredibly durable from a distance, and Autocannon Ballistarii are going to be nightmarish harassers as long as they keep 12" away.
Ryza Dogma: An alternative for Dragoons. Fulgurites aren't going anywhere without transports, and Infiltrators are just bad now.
Stratagem: Confusing... aren't these guys the melee specialists?
Warlord Trait: Good. This is pretty much upgrades Eradication Ray to have +1 to wound and +1D against most vehicles.
Conclusion: Skip. No idea what they were thinking here.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 03:51:59
2017/09/16 03:25:09
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
People seem to be talking about the Stygies dogma as amazing, but the only time someone said what it was it was only rumoured? I know some of you seem to have the new codex now (or have seen it somewhere leaked) so what is it? Just a straight -1 to hit on all units?
2017/09/16 03:30:29
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
Niiru wrote: People seem to be talking about the Stygies dogma as amazing, but the only time someone said what it was it was only rumoured? I know some of you seem to have the new codex now (or have seen it somewhere leaked) so what is it? Just a straight -1 to hit on all units?
It is word for word identical to ravenguard, but it affects everything, even Onagers.
-1 to hit from shooting outside of 12", and they have the same ravenguard pre-first turn deploy on the table.
Niiru wrote: People seem to be talking about the Stygies dogma as amazing, but the only time someone said what it was it was only rumoured? I know some of you seem to have the new codex now (or have seen it somewhere leaked) so what is it? Just a straight -1 to hit on all units?
It is word for word identical to ravenguard, but it affects everything, even Onagers.
-1 to hit from shooting outside of 12", and they have the same ravenguard pre-first turn deploy on the table.
Ahh ok, so I don't know space mareenz at all, but I *do* know chaos, and that's also exactly the same as Alpha Legion lol.
Except Alpha (and I presume same with ravenguard) only effects infantry, bikers and helbrutes. So the admech one is certainly interesting. Makes onagers and dakkastelans pretty durable.
2017/09/16 04:00:50
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Sound The Drum, Agripinaa has Come
The infiltrate stratagem is likely best used (once again) on electro-priests. I'm not impressed with Fist Kastellans (especially compared to the dakka variety, 3 attacks at 4+ isn't good and S10 is not exactly an amazing breakpoint for anything) and Ruststalkers are just going to get shot off the board if you try to use them.
17,000 points (Valhallan)
10,000 points
6,000 points (Order of Our Martyred Lady)
Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 7 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 8 Armigers
3000
4000 
