Codex: Craftworlds Tactics Thread v2.0 - 9th Edition

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**Sarigar**

I enjoy sharing Craftworld ideas. I've discovered some great ideas that played well on this thread.

DA. A squad of 5 is 2 Power Level. With your list, you can pay 1 CP and put 4 x 5 Dire Avengers in Strategic Reserve and leave one unit in a Falcon. Turn 1, the squad disembarks and starts Retrieve Octarius Data. Turn 2, either use the same unit or bring one squad in from strategic reserve to perform Retrieve Octarius Data as well as assist in Engage on all Fronts. Turn 3, bring kinnthe others positioned to perform the action in a third table quarter, and set up the other to finish the secondary on turn 4. Admittedly, it works much easier with a unit of Warp Spiders, but trying not to alter too much of your list.

The challenge I see with the Fire Prisms is the desire to utilize Linked Fire. I feel it is a bit hit or miss in utility. Shooting three feels a bit like overkill, but I faced someone using Magnus yesterday and if I had 3 Fire Prisms, Magnus would have been extremely challenged to survive. However, armies have changed quite a bit over the past year and with Orks and AdMech potentially putting out large squads, the Fire Prism may have more added utility with its Dispersed Mode (Heavy, d6, Blast). I added a unit of Spectres in my army for this purpose, but those armies with large squads are not nearly as common as I expected. It has been so long since I've used Fire Prisms, I'd recommend to play a few games with them and see if they fit your needs.

I like the Lynx and would likely run 2 If I could reasonably buy an second (Forgeworld has been sold out and EBay prices have been a bit silly).

The one challenge I would caution with a vehicle heavy list is its inherent deficiency to contest primary objectives. This was a key item in my games which pushed me towards adding in durability to contestthe midboard objectives (10 Wraithblades). I don't like advising folks to simply change out their army as that is not overly helpful. But, I do like to share what challenges I faced running something similar to your army.

I like Pulse Lasers very much. But what this means is the tank(s) you will be utilizing to hide your Reapers will also be shooting, placing them in LOS to opposing shooting. And there can be some very efficient shooting nowadays. That is why I opted for a Wave Serpent with poor shooting. It eliminates the temptation to put the tank in harm's way as its real,purpose is to protect the Reapers.

I think Vaul's Wrath has its place. I am just unsure if it offers more utility than Masterful Shots. As more 9th edition codexes are released, the ability to ignore cover saves may be less impactful. A lot of this depends on what your local meta is.

Let us know what works and didn't work in your games. There are a few Craftworld enthusiasts still around.

**Tyranid Horde**

Having run three fire prisms against Death Guard, I liked them a lot although when I ran two against a faster moving army, they were very hard to hide so I don't think three are worth bringing imo as most of the fast moving armies have the option of finding LoS on your hidden tanks. Definitely the utility between the different profiles is nothing to be sniffed at, but you really are relying on them and they're quite regularly the unit that opponents try to kill if they can. Tried Students of Vaul myself and honestly, with the amount of firepower in the game right now, there is little value in an additional wound per turn.

I think Guide on the second seer is redundant, you have enough rerolls between the two seers to have it reliably go off and be out of range for denials. There are also better powers to be denying for most armies.

Going for a different looking list to my usual tank heavy list today. Dropped fire prisms for a Wraithseer for extra psychic support and more anti-tank threat as well as a D-Cannon for extra LoS ignoring shooting. Still working out what I want from the range of units I currently have and the tournament I'm attending is a few weeks away. No rules pack yet but keen on making a list that works well off Expert Crafters although I've got a guide seer in there for the Dark Reaper blob. My main secondaries I'm going for are ROD, Engage and something else depending on the mission. I know I'm low on troops but I can stick them in reserve/webway for later in the game and the Warp Spider get me full ROD most games. I am hoping that the list is easier to hide against T1 shooting and that I have enough durability with my Wave Serpents if they are left in the open. I give away 10 points for Bring It Down with this list and I hope that Grind Them Down is less of an easy option against the army. The war walkers are getting bright lances today as EMLs I struggle with due to their low AP but it does offer a new problem against hordes. I'm hoping that a protected squad of blades helps to hold up the midfield or prove to be a tough nut to crack on an objective. Finally, I know the warlock is in the wrong detachment but I need the warlord to be in the Patrol to refund me the 2CP, hoping the reroll he gets helps the consistency of the casting. It's been fun reading everyone else's experiences and games, hopefully I can add my own voice to the choir.

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [37 PL, 12CP, 710pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Hunters of Ancient Relics

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: Matched

The Path of War

+ HQ +

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 3. Ghostwalk, 5. Quicken/Restrain, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

+ Elites +

Wraithblades [10 PL, 185pts]: Ghostaxe and Forceshield, 5x Wraithblade

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [10 PL, 180pts]
. 4x Shining Spear: 4x Laser Lance, 4x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance
. . Exarch Power: Expert Hunter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 170pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Vectored Engines

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [68 PL, -3CP, 1,290pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 115pts]: 0. Smite, 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
. Faolchu's Wing

Warlock Conclave [4 PL, 80pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will
. Warlock: Witchblade
. Warlock: Witchblade

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [3 PL, 50pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Warp Spiders [4 PL, 90pts]
. 4x Warp Spider: 4x Death Spinner
. Warp Spider Exarch: Two Death Spinners
. . Exarch Power: Web of Deceit

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [18 PL, 330pts]
. 9x Dark Reaper: 9x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher
. . Exarch Power: Rain of Death

Support Weapons [4 PL, 70pts]
. Support Weapon: D-cannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 75pts]
. War Walker: Bright Lance, Starcannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 75pts]
. War Walker: Bright Lance, Starcannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 75pts]
. War Walker: Bright Lance, Starcannon

Wraithseer [8 PL, 170pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, D-cannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 160pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Total: [105 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

**Scoundrel80**

looks good too!

just for the record this is my balanced list made for winning. it is undefeated in my playgroup and routinely maxes out scramblers (dont remember the new name), engage and a third. Often Raise banners, actually. Recent wins vs orks (old rules), sisters, blood angels, Death Guard.

i plan on tinkering with it for details.

- maybe two small units of spears instead of on big, but I dont think so as the vipers and falcons and scorpions fill that role. I need a big centerpiece like that.

- the list really likes expert crafters but with the 3 war walker I break that trend. its just to good with forewarned and guide. vs hordes especially.

- the spears used to be 10 reapers and then it was 10 firedragons. amazing in the vectored bus. but in the end I figured I had enough shooting without them and went for a fast melee unit.

- the heroes of the lists are the avengers always. moving up to 6man squads seems silly because blast but those 14 shots with masterful/hail of doom/bladestorm means they can actually pack a punch. the reason why I thought of six was that I wanted to try avenging blows but haven't done so yet. could be a thing? Problem is, tho, that these guys mostly just sit in a tank or do actions so maybe going down to fivemans again could be ok. It would net me a few more points. maybe to go up to 9 spears? or add another psyker.

the cool thing is that this list can be all over the place and it can shift its focus so easily. I can hide all infantry In tanks t1 and be super flexible between that and phantasm if needed. the war walker blob is amazing and the falcons kick ass when they focus something down and jet off. extra points if I go to 5man avengers again could actually go to more speed on those three falcons.

give the list a try. it will surprise you : )

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [77 PL, 12CP, 1,369pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters and either masterfull or hail of doom. Want to try Students of Vaul.

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 5. Focus Will, 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

+ Elites +

Striking Scorpions [3 PL, 65pts]
. 5x Striking Scorpion: 5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Scorpion Chainsword, 5x Shuriken Pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

Vypers [3 PL, 60pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [8 PL, 155pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

Falcon [8 PL, 155pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

War Walkers [12 PL, 240pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 180pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [35 PL, -2CP, 631pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Hunters of Ancient Relics

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 135pts]: 0. Smite, 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [15 PL, 285pts]
. 7x Shining Spear: 7x Laser Lance, 7x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance
. . Exarch Power: Expert Hunter

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [8 PL, 145pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Total: [112 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

**Scoundrel80**

(exarch powers, psychic powers and stuff like that is not chosen perfectly in this extract. Presume optimal solutions all around. skilled rider for spears exarch etc.)

**Scoundrel80**

has anyone tried the 3x3 spears setup over the 9blob? im not sure its that good actually. saves are great, mobility, expert crafters potential and secondaries scoring should be good but they dont really clear out a lot of stuff, id say. you move up, shoot 12 shuriken shots with a reroll and then charge for 4 s6 and 3 s8 attacks with the star lance and another reroll. obviously, you can have several units of them going for the same target, but opponent will be able to interrupt fight order with the start and all in all the kill potential seems less.

are the extra exarchs and their abilities worth it?

**Tyranid Horde**

My game ended up against Farsight Enclaves which I lost to previously. With removing the fire prisms and getting used to the missions more and more, I had a pretty good game, with a final score of 74-72 in the Craftworld's favour playing the Surround and Destroy mission.

Realistically, I made a few blunders which made the game far closer than it needed to be. I used up a CP for a failed psychic test which meant I had no leftover CP to get my Dark Reapers into their transport again and lost the entire squad to breacher fire on turn three. I could have denied points and gained points early on in the game but I played more conservatively in the hopes I would make it to the late game and that did indeed work quite well. I did have ample opportunities to not be shot off the board so I could have made the decision to go for more objectives early on.

I feel the Vyper I had didn't do much. I held it back early on to use it later for sitting on an objective or netting me more points for engage on all fronts which it did achieve. Not sure what I'd spend the 50 points on otherwise.

I was pleased with the D-Cannons from the Wraithseer and the Support Platform, and they were neat tools in giving me indirect fire opportunities. Having the extra protect/jinx was very nice as I could protect my wraithblades which I quickened up the board and proved to be a tough nut to crack over a couple of turns of shooting. I am pleased with the Bright Lances overall. I don't think I'll be winning many games against Ad Mech in their current guise so the ability to have so many rerolling anti-tank shots was a massive help and the extra AP vs EMLs was huge difference and I don't feel like I need to return to EMLs.

Next time I'll add the farseer to the patrol to gain the seer council strat with the warlock, I definitely feel it is very important to have that option.

@Scoundrel, I find Spears are more powerful run as bigger units as while the extra durability from the extra exarchs are valuable, I want to be able to get them all into combat at once, and MSU doesn't allow for that. Same goes for Reapers, fire and fade is considerably less impactful and cannot be guided. I am also curious as to how you use your falcons, they go down easily to dedicated shooting and they're tough to hide if you run a lot of them which leaves them open to poor trading.

**Scoundrel80**

Grats on your win. Yeah, the 3man spears is something I have never used before. I just read somewhere that they were the hottest thing right now for space elves so im planning on doing it. I always run a blob of 7-9 normally a you can see in my normal patrol/bataleon list above.

In regard to the falcons I just feel they trade wonderfully, to be honest. I love running three of them. They do it all. Run up the board with avengers in them to get shot and unload, hold the back line, draw fire from that important piece (spears blob, vectored buss with axes, reaper bus, firedragon bus). Everytime they get shot at theres an important piece that doesn't get shot at and they are pretty dangerous if left alone. pulse, pulse, krak or pulse, pulse, starcannon x2 can be really brutal. They are good with crafters and with good maneuverability, the -1 strat and spirit stones I feel I can usually keep one alive though a turn of fire. or at least have only one go down. I used to run one and was always very disappointed with them. 2-3 is a whole new level of threat saturation and with the AML they have great versatility and range control, imo.

its the same thing with war walkers and vipers. 1 is a waste of points. 3 is a real threat with lots of utility.

Actually im tinkering with brigade build for the exact same reason these days. multiple threats with lots of utility and focus on our only real good buffs: psychics and expert crafters. something like 3x war walkers, 3x vipers, 6x 5 avengers fills those slots op no problem and you can then do 4 psykers with no CP penalty. its a whole new way of doing it. for me at least : )

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, you are right in regards to the falcons being somewhat terrain-dependent. They are not hindered by terrain due to fly and can draw huge advantage from that. So if the terrain doesn't really support that and you can't control engagements with obscuring pieces or with range in a reasonable way, they loose some of their appeal for sure.

**Scoundrel80**

btw I can't get over the thought of assurmen and a warlock in a wave serpent with 10 avengers with avenging blows. the unit swarms an objective and gets 3++ from protect. if one dies they all hit on 2s and wound t5 on 4s and marines on 3s. add hail of doom and that unit is a real threat that moves 11 inches on average. add the 5+++ from a farseer and its even better. it can fall back and shoot and assurmen can mop up in melee/heroically.

I've run assurmen with MSU avengers and its meh. you cant exploit the 3++ as the opponent will just shoot another unit. also, assurmen is just too expensive. would this be worth it or is it still just a bit silly?

**Sarigar**

Tyranid Horde wrote:
Having run three fire prisms against Death Guard, I liked them a lot although when I ran two against a faster moving army, they were very hard to hide so I don't think three are worth bringing imo as most of the fast moving armies have the option of finding LoS on your hidden tanks. Definitely the utility between the different profiles is nothing to be sniffed at, but you really are relying on them and they're quite regularly the unit that opponents try to kill if they can. Tried Students of Vaul myself and honestly, with the amount of firepower in the game right now, there is little value in an additional wound per turn.

I think Guide on the second seer is redundant, you have enough rerolls between the two seers to have it reliably go off and be out of range for denials. There are also better powers to be denying for most armies.

Going for a different looking list to my usual tank heavy list today. Dropped fire prisms for a Wraithseer for extra psychic support and more anti-tank threat as well as a D-Cannon for extra LoS ignoring shooting. Still working out what I want from the range of units I currently have and the tournament I'm attending is a few weeks away. No rules pack yet but keen on making a list that works well off Expert Crafters although I've got a guide seer in there for the Dark Reaper blob. My main secondaries I'm going for are ROD, Engage and something else depending on the mission. I know I'm low on troops but I can stick them in reserve/webway for later in the game and the Warp Spider get me full ROD most games. I am hoping that the list is easier to hide against T1 shooting and that I have enough durability with my Wave Serpents if they are left in the open. I give away 10 points for Bring It Down with this list and I hope that Grind Them Down is less of an easy option against the army. The war walkers are getting bright lances today as EMLs I struggle with due to their low AP but it does offer a new problem against hordes. I'm hoping that a protected squad of blades helps to hold up the midfield or prove to be a tough nut to crack on an objective. Finally, I know the warlock is in the wrong detachment but I need the warlord to be in the Patrol to refund me the 2CP, hoping the reroll he gets helps the consistency of the casting. It's been fun reading everyone else's experiences and games, hopefully I can add my own voice to the choir.

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [37 PL, 12CP, 710pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Hunters of Ancient Relics

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: Matched

The Path of War

+ HQ +

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 3. Ghostwalk, 5. Quicken/Restrain, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

+ Elites +

Wraithblades [10 PL, 185pts]: Ghostaxe and Forceshield, 5x Wraithblade

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [10 PL, 180pts]
. 4x Shining Spear: 4x Laser Lance, 4x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance
. . Exarch Power: Expert Hunter

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 170pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Vectored Engines

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [68 PL, -3CP, 1,290pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 115pts]: 0. Smite, 1. Guide, 2. Doom, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
. Faolchu's Wing

Warlock Conclave [4 PL, 80pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will
. Warlock: Witchblade
. Warlock: Witchblade

+ Fast Attack +

Vypers [3 PL, 50pts]
. Vyper: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Warp Spiders [4 PL, 90pts]
. 4x Warp Spider: 4x Death Spinner
. Warp Spider Exarch: Two Death Spinners
. . Exarch Power: Web of Deceit

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [18 PL, 330pts]
. 9x Dark Reaper: 9x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Tempest Launcher
. . Exarch Power: Rain of Death

Support Weapons [4 PL, 70pts]
. Support Weapon: D-cannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 75pts]
. War Walker: Bright Lance, Starcannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 75pts]
. War Walker: Bright Lance, Starcannon

War Walkers [4 PL, 75pts]
. War Walker: Bright Lance, Starcannon

Wraithseer [8 PL, 170pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, D-cannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 160pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Total: [105 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

I really like this style of list and congrats on the win. You definitely learned the one rule when using Reapers in a Wave Serpent; always keep,the CP for Fire and Fade. Opponents will almost always go after the Reapers if they are ever exposed.

Seer Council has been a very important. Our Psychic Phase plays a lot like other armies' Command Phase, except more difficult to cast and the loss of some Psychic powers can be debilitating.

I may be participating in a tourney in a couple weeks. If so, I'll post up my list for some discussion.

**Scoundrel80**

I too like the list. it packs a punch, and 10 well played reapers can really win games. my only gripe is that 10 models with obsec seems super thin. At least in my meta, Idont think I would be able to score a lot of primaries with that.

i guess you contest the midfield with the blades, try to sit on your own backfield with the 2x5 avengers maybe and then have spiders and the viper to score secondaries. The spears can mop up stuff or go deep to contest an objective too. Is this assessment way off?

Was screening a problem? also.. how did that 2man council perform? thats a fun little concept.

**Verthane**

Scoundrel80 wrote:
how did that 2man council perform? thats a fun little concept.

Not the OP on this topic, but I have used the 2 man council quite a bit. I find it's very binary. Against opponents who either forget that it's not subject to "look out sir" and can be targeted, or opponents with no indirect fire weapons on boards with a good place to hide them, they are fantastic. 36" Jinx is just spectacular.

Against savvier opponents with the wherewithal to remove them...they go down really really fast.

**The Red Hobbit**

36" Jinx eh? That sounds interesting, I'll give that a try next time I run Eldar

**Tyranid Horde**

Scoundrel80 wrote:I too like the list. it packs a punch, and 10 well played reapers can really win games. my only gripe is that 10 models with obsec seems super thin. At least in my meta, Idont think I would be able to score a lot of primaries with that.

i guess you contest the midfield with the blades, try to sit on your own backfield with the 2x5 avengers maybe and then have spiders and the viper to score secondaries. The spears can mop up stuff or go deep to contest an objective too. Is this assessment way off?

Was screening a problem? also.. how did that 2man council perform? thats a fun little concept.

Honestly, the lack of troops could be a problem, but my intention is to reach the end of the game with this army to score primaries, thus I kept the two squads to turn 3 and 4 respectively to net some vital primaries later in the game. I expected the list to struggle with competing obsec units but found the shuriken fire and masterful shots be more than enough to shift all the infantry to the board in my game so obsec didn't matter as much.

The gameplan isn't far off what I do. In this game I went second so my opponent had moved up enough for me to achieve a first turn charge. I was able to throw the Blades using quicken and the additional movement gained from disembarking from a hidden wave serpent to make a first turn charge against some stealth suits in the mid board as well as make a charge against a ghostkeel and a devilfish to force a disengagement if I didn't kill everything in one go. Each unit took two turns to destroy as their 3++ invul saves were very dependable and forced my opponent to go around them or stay in combat, so they did what I wanted, albeit an expensive roadblock. The spears did some work on a ghostkeel in shooting and combat and the blades went through the stealth team and Farsight as he had intervened the previous turn. After that it was about targeting his movement potential and largely ignoring the blob of crisis suits he brought with farsight and whittling away at them from across the board with fire and fading Dark Reapers.

I kept the Dire Avengers in strategic reserves as I was able to hold my own objectives with my other units on the board. They came on in turns 3 and 4 on my own edge to do a ROD action as my opponent had screened well against the other sides of the board and my deepstriking Spiders. I deployed 2/3 war walkers to act as screening for the following turn and found it worked quite well. My opponent found it difficult to place some crisis suits in a meaningful place with the amount of individual large bases.

Verthane wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
how did that 2man council perform? thats a fun little concept.

Not the OP on this topic, but I have used the 2 man council quite a bit. I find it's very binary. Against opponents who either forget that it's not subject to "look out sir" and can be targeted, or opponents with no indirect fire weapons on boards with a good place to hide them, they are fantastic. 36" Jinx is just spectacular.

Against savvier opponents with the wherewithal to remove them...they go down really really fast.

Got it right, they are pretty easily countered with the right opponent. My opponent is used to me so was able to rival them with a Cold Star suit on turn two, but by that point, I feel they made their points back by using Jinx against the Ghostkeel who had a 4++ invul, allowing my other units to destroy it. 80 points for a 36" jinx/protect is very good I think with the potential for more if they survived longer.

**Scoundrel80**

sounds like an extremely well played game. i own custodes and crimson fists too and nothing is as exciting as when an eldar game goes like that. the fail margin is so narrow with craftworlds, Imo
: )

a thing about masterful shots. I know its the second best trait on paper, but I dont like running it. I know its silly but its the truth. It makes my opponent do crazier stuff. be more unpredictable. and when I play eldar I want to be able to predict as much as possible. I bait, sacrifice units or good positions, lure a unit out, engage it from all sides and hopefully remove it, regroup rinse and repeat. if they suddenly have no incitement to stay behind some cool terrain piece or whatever, those patterns are harder to foresee. for me at least : ) they tend to play more aggressively with that trait on my lads, I think. Obviously, this can be used to my advantage too, but I guess my builds dont play into that tactic yet.. do any of you have the same experience with masterful shots or am I putting too much into that dynamic?

**Saber**

Scoundrel80 wrote:
btw I can't get over the thought of assurmen and a warlock in a wave serpent with 10 avengers with avenging blows. the unit swarms an objective and gets 3++ from protect. if one dies they all hit on 2s and wound t5 on 4s and marines on 3s. add hail of doom and that unit is a real threat that moves 11 inches on average. add the 5+++ from a farseer and its even better. it can fall back and shoot and assurmen can mop up in melee/heroically.

I've run assurmen with MSU avengers and its meh. you cant exploit the 3++ as the opponent will just shoot another unit. also, assurmen is just too expensive. would this be worth it or is it still just a bit silly?

I've had modest success using three 10-strong squads of Dire Avengers, all with Avenging Strike and moving up on foot. You can take a Shimmer Shield if you don't have Asurmen or need to spread out. I usually play with Expert Crafters and Masters of Concealment.

Their offensive output is pretty good; usually one squad will get hammered pretty bad, but my opponents just can't resist sniping off one or two models from the other squads. This lets them punch pretty hard, and in melee a Dire Sword can produce the odd mortal wound for comedy purposes. Doom is very nice with this set-up, allowing you to pummel most infantry. Even Death Guard and Skitarii can get gunned down quick.

Ultimately, it's only 300-odd points of Troops, so you can't expect that much out of it. If anything I'd say that Dire Avengers are overpriced by a point or two, though that's more due to the ridiculous lethality of 40K at the moment than to any inherent flaws in the unit.

**Argive**

I roll with 10 storm guardians with a fusion and a blob of 20 guardians in web way.

This worked particularly well with the avatar.

Celestial shield giving a 4++ on a unit a turn is a great return on CP.

**Sarigar**

Tyranid Horde wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:I too like the list. it packs a punch, and 10 well played reapers can really win games. my only gripe is that 10 models with obsec seems super thin. At least in my meta, Idont think I would be able to score a lot of primaries with that.

i guess you contest the midfield with the blades, try to sit on your own backfield with the 2x5 avengers maybe and then have spiders and the viper to score secondaries. The spears can mop up stuff or go deep to contest an objective too. Is this assessment way off?

Was screening a problem? also.. how did that 2man council perform? thats a fun little concept.

Honestly, the lack of troops could be a problem, but my intention is to reach the end of the game with this army to score primaries, thus I kept the two squads to turn 3 and 4 respectively to net some vital primaries later in the game. I expected the list to struggle with competing obsec units but found the shuriken fire and masterful shots be more than enough to shift all the infantry to the board in my game so obsec didn't matter as much.

The gameplan isn't far off what I do. In this game I went second so my opponent had moved up enough for me to achieve a first turn charge. I was able to throw the Blades using quicken and the additional movement gained from disembarking from a hidden wave serpent to make a first turn charge against some stealth suits in the mid board as well as make a charge against a ghostkeel and a devilfish to force a disengagement if I didn't kill everything in one go. Each unit took two turns to destroy as their 3++ invul saves were very dependable and forced my opponent to go around them or stay in combat, so they did what I wanted, albeit an expensive roadblock. The spears did some work on a ghostkeel in shooting and combat and the blades went through the stealth team and Farsight as he had intervened the previous turn. After that it was about targeting his movement potential and largely ignoring the blob of crisis suits he brought with farsight and whittling away at them from across the board with fire and fading Dark Reapers.

I kept the Dire Avengers in strategic reserves as I was able to hold my own objectives with my other units on the board. They came on in turns 3 and 4 on my own edge to do a ROD action as my opponent had screened well against the other sides of the board and my deepstriking Spiders. I deployed 2/3 war walkers to act as screening for the following turn and found it worked quite well. My opponent found it difficult to place some crisis suits in a meaningful place with the amount of individual large bases.

Verthane wrote:
Scoundrel80 wrote:
how did that 2man council perform? thats a fun little concept.

Not the OP on this topic, but I have used the 2 man council quite a bit. I find it's very binary. Against opponents who either forget that it's not subject to "look out sir" and can be targeted, or opponents with no indirect fire weapons on boards with a good place to hide them, they are fantastic. 36" Jinx is just spectacular.

Against savvier opponents with the wherewithal to remove them...they go down really really fast.

Got it right, they are pretty easily countered with the right opponent. My opponent is used to me so was able to rival them with a Cold Star suit on turn two, but by that point, I feel they made their points back by using Jinx against the Ghostkeel who had a 4++ invul, allowing my other units to destroy it. 80 points for a 36" jinx/protect is very good I think with the potential for more if they survived longer.

A Coldstar unit for an 80 point Warlock Conclave is a great trade. That is what makes them good even when opponents know how useful they are. 80 points is a bargain.

**Scoundrel80**

honestly, I dont understand the point of that conclave unit. Please enlighten me : ) is it just for the 36 inch jinx basically? that I can understand. but if I had to build that unit id instinctively be drawn to running 7+ models for the big smite and a potential melee threat maybe. id probably leave it at the thought, though. This unit seems super hard to play and keep alive. The bike blob seems interesting but too expensive, I feel.

**Tyranid Horde**

The two man conclave is a small hideable unit that is easy to forget about as previously mentioned. Having a 36" jinx is extremely good because you avoid denials outside of your opponent using a denial stratagem.

I found that the conclave forces your opponent to do something about it. My opponent effectively throwing away a Cold Star just to get rid of it is a good indication of how much trouble they can be for armies without stratagems or indirect fire. The option to pick between 2 different runes of battle gives some nice flexibility over a single warlock as well. It did take a little while for me to get used to it but I feel I have the hang of what it is meant to do in my army.

I ignore the smite/destructor and just pick another arbitrary power that I could use if I have nothing worth my other powers. They're just an extra power and deny at the end of the day. Would recommend giving it a go!

**Scoundrel80**

makes great sense. ill give them a spin.

btw: I've been confusing the "pay I cp to put 4 units of DA in reserves" with the web way strat. couldn't make sense of it. Now it dawns upon me that you guys are simply talking about normal reserves! duh. thats a totally new thought for me with craftworlds. I routinely set up one unit in the web way but never in reserves. Is it worth it with the deployment restrictions and how do you guys normally use these units to best effect?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
First of all, my apologies for spamming this page the last couple days. I’ve been vacating with the family and once the wife and kids crash I just really been feeling like building 40k lists : ) hope its not too much.

— Viable units —

Im trying to list all the assets that are viable for elder atm. With assets I mean units that work in some sort of battlefield role and can actually at least kind of hang compared to other factions. I often find my self putting together very specific lists (like all dakka, wraith heavy, melee focused, obsec heavy) first and then after a few games I pick out the best stuff from each build and aim for a broader, more complete build that can face a wider field of armies.

Here are my most used stuff. Feel free to add viable or semi viable stuff.

HQ
Doom/guide farseer on bike or with wings.
Executioner farseer on bike.
Warlocks on bike
Assurmen. Not sure he’s viable at 160, though.
Spirit seer (sometimes to babysit wraithaxes or as an extra smite in MW builds.)
*Simply can’t make the autarchs worth their points. They have no gear and weak stats. Even the legends biker is almost not good enough. Do any of you have succes with autarchs?

Troops
Guardian bomb 16-20 dudes in web way.
5-6 x5 Dire avengers. To me the jury is out on whether 6mans are subpar.

Elites
8-10 firedragons with swift step. Yeah, probably not good enough.
5-10 Wraith blades/axes
Scorpions with stalker for secondaries
10 shadow spectres. Haven’t used them. Seem amazing. Would fewer work?

Fast attack
9 blob of spears
3 man units of spears? Still haven’t tried them.
5 spiders for secondaries.
Hornets
Vypers. Yup. Thats just me. Probably a subpar choice.

Heavy support
10 reapers
Night spinners/prisms. Not too keen on these on paper but they see play.
War walkers. They work both as 1 and 3 man units, imo.
Wraith seer
Falcon. I just love these. So versatile.

Flyer
Crimson hunter exarch. Expensive but pretty good, imo. Scores engage on turn one.

Transport
Stripped down meatshield Serpent just with spirit stones. Amazing.
Decked out transport Serpent for elites. Vectored, Shur-cannons, stones
Combat transport Serpent. Typically stones and star cannons or AML.
Battletank Serpent. vectored, CTM and appropriate weapons.

Anything else that works out there?

**bullyboy**

OK, so I've had this idea in my head for awhile and now I'm going to push forward with it.

I'm in the process of modeling wraithlords in aspect shrine colours/loadouts and want to get them on the table. Of course, the rule of 3 means I have to at least take some as Wraithseers. Here is what I'm thinking currently..

Asurmen
Jain Zar

5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers

5 Fire dragons, firepike (not sure this is necessary, may drop it)
8 Banshees
5 Scorps, claw

Falcon, brightlance
Wave Serpent, Twin starcannon
Wave Serpent, Twin shuircannon

Farseer

Wraithlord, sword, starcannon, 2 shuricats (this is my scorpion and has a chainsword modeled)
Wraithlord, brightlance, 2 flamers, sword (this is my dragon and will have an axe instead of sword)
Wraithlord, 2 AMLs, 2 shuricats (this will be a Dark Reaper and the AMLs will be modeled as a twin singular weapon)

Wraithseer, spear, shield (barebones will be my Banshee)
Wraithseer, shuricannon, spear, shield (this will be my Avenger).

2000pts on the nose.
haven't decided on powers for the wraithseers yet.

So do you think I chose the right 2 "aspects" for the wraithseers? I figured the banshee will have the ability to use smite as a pyschic scream.
I feel that not having actual Reapers in the list hurts a little, but I really need those vehicles (I think).

Thoughts on what I could do to tweak the list a little or just change outright?

Of course the other possible aspects are Hawks (making a winged wraithlord with scatterlaser/sword) and spider, although not sure what I'd use the deathspinner as a proxy for...maybe D-Cannon?

I intend to pay a CP to put the scorp lord in outflank obviously. Also not sure I need both Phoenix Lords. I have the new Jain Zar and not thrilled about taking an old Asurmen but feel he is a useful addition to the Avengers.

I just put this together today, so I haven't thought about how I'm going to make it all work together.

**Sarigar**

Scoundrel80 wrote:
makes great sense. ill give them a spin.

btw: I've been confusing the "pay I cp to put 4 units of DA in reserves" with the web way strat. couldn't make sense of it. Now it dawns upon me that you guys are simply talking about normal reserves! duh. thats a totally new thought for me with craftworlds. I routinely set up one unit in the web way but never in reserves. Is it worth it with the deployment restrictions and how do you guys normally use these units to best effect?

I've found DA shooting to be sub par and will nearly always place them in Strategic Reserve. There are some niche cases to start them on the board, but it based upon opposing army. They help score Engage on all Fronts and be a nuisance unit.

**Scoundrel80**

bullyboy wrote:
OK, so I've had this idea in my head for awhile and now I'm going to push forward with it.

I'm in the process of modeling wraithlords in aspect shrine colours/loadouts and want to get them on the table. Of course, the rule of 3 means I have to at least take some as Wraithseers. Here is what I'm thinking currently..

Asurmen
Jain Zar

5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers

5 Fire dragons, firepike (not sure this is necessary, may drop it)
8 Banshees
5 Scorps, claw

Falcon, brightlance
Wave Serpent, Twin starcannon
Wave Serpent, Twin shuircannon

Farseer

Wraithlord, sword, starcannon, 2 shuricats (this is my scorpion and has a chainsword modeled)
Wraithlord, brightlance, 2 flamers, sword (this is my dragon and will have an axe instead of sword)
Wraithlord, 2 AMLs, 2 shuricats (this will be a Dark Reaper and the AMLs will be modeled as a twin singular weapon)

Wraithseer, spear, shield (barebones will be my Banshee)
Wraithseer, shuricannon, spear, shield (this will be my Avenger).

2000pts on the nose.
haven't decided on powers for the wraithseers yet.

So do you think I chose the right 2 "aspects" for the wraithseers? I figured the banshee will have the ability to use smite as a pyschic scream.
I feel that not having actual Reapers in the list hurts a little, but I really need those vehicles (I think).

Thoughts on what I could do to tweak the list a little or just change outright?

Of course the other possible aspects are Hawks (making a winged wraithlord with scatterlaser/sword) and spider, although not sure what I'd use the deathspinner as a proxy for...maybe D-Cannon?

I intend to pay a CP to put the scorp lord in outflank obviously. Also not sure I need both Phoenix Lords. I have the new Jain Zar and not thrilled about taking an old Asurmen but feel he is a useful addition to the Avengers.

I just put this together today, so I haven't thought about how I'm going to make it all work together.

sounds nothing short of amazing! thematic army with cool aesthetics. im not sure how dominant it will be in the meta but who cares about that : )

Automatically Appended Next Post:
did anyone have comments on my point regarding masterful shots being a bit two sided? I fell it makes my opponent play in a way that is harder for me to control because I take away his motivation to go for certain positions on the battlefield.

**Tyranid Horde**

I would still rather my opponent not get an extra save from cover if I can help it so that's why I use masterful shots for the spearhead of my list. If I have -4 on a bright lance or -3 on a starcannon, I don't want my opponent getting 5+ or 6+ saves when I could ignore cover and prevent a save outright.

Sure, your opponent is going to enjoy more freedom moving units and not caring about cover if your entire list is masterful shots, but the name of the game is terrain and objectives in 9th and you want to be using it anyway, cover save or not, so I have found that it doesn't overtly matter because if my opponent doesn't want to be seen, they'll be behind or in terrain anyway. Forcing decisions that an opponent might not be used to is good play in my opinion.

**Scoundrel80**

yeah, it is. I agree. Its just one of those buffs that if you run it it'll rarely come up as the opponent will just avoid cover. so it feels a bit shallow. it is good, though. no doubt.

**luminate**

Hey everyone! I use to play Eldar back in 7th edition and have decided to start using my collection again. What is the best way to start using the rules, just buying the codex or have there been any supplements I am unaware of? If I wanted to start a 500 point army would it consist of a farseer on bike, dire avengers and reapers?

Thanks for your help!

**Scoundrel80**

luminate wrote:
Hey everyone! I use to play Eldar back in 7th edition and have decided to start using my collection again. What is the best way to start using the rules, just buying the codex or have there been any supplements I am unaware of? If I wanted to start a 500 point army would it consist of a farseer on bike, dire avengers and reapers?

Thanks for your help!

armies that small are hard to get right, imo. but yeah, farseers are super good and DAs and reapers fit together quite well, I guess. Avengers sneak up (they can't run through enemy fire really) on an objective and the reapers clear the way from a good position in your backfield. sounds legit : )

Automatically Appended Next Post:
2 questions: in my understanding expert crafters trigger once per activation. you can preroll several times with a unit in a turn. Shooting, fight phase and if you shoot in your opponents movement phase with forewarned for example

But is this limited ti "once per phase" or would you get rerolls on the second shot in the same shooting phase with a fire prism that has remained stationary or moved half its movement?

second question: some of you mentioned that 3 prisms where probably one too many in todays meta. Sounds fair, but whats the reason for this shift? I feel that just a few months ago it was 3 or 0. any thoughts?

**Sarigar**

Regarding Fire Prisms, it really becomes the stratagem that is a bit of a trap, IMO. You get locked in to firing all three Fire Prisms which tended to be overkill (always some outlier exceptions). They feel over pointed, especially compared to a Lynx. As more 9th edition codexes are released, it may change, but that has been my take in the past.

**Tyranid Horde**

Fire prism use can definitely fall into that stratagem trap if you're not careful. The three I brought against Death Guard ate through a good few blightlord termies but couldn't get the entire squad. They're decent against Lucius Skitarii blobs because of blast and the 1 damage isn't much of a hinderance considering the strength and AP of the shots. Compared to a Lynx, yeah, just not not worth the points unfortunately as I love them!

**Scoundrel80**

ok last thing:

im taking this list to a game tomorrow and im having trouble on which secondaries to run. Normally id just take engage and incarious, and I might do so here too. Thing is that except for the lynx I lack the fast units I normally run for this sort of thing. Its a more compact shooting army this time so my question is if anything else would be better? Raise the banners maybe as I will be castling in my back field probably and screening for enemy deepstrikes while shooting as much as possible. then roll out and try to score primaries more offensively when the first wave of space wolves has been shot away.

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [69 PL, 12CP, 1,160pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 115pts]: 0. Smite, 1. Guide, 3. Fortune, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
. Faolchu's Wing

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 66pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 5x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Bladestorm

+ Heavy Support +

Fire Prism [9 PL, 165pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism [9 PL, 165pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Lynx [12 PL, 255pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Crystal Targeting Matrix, Lynx Pulsar, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [43 PL, -3CP, 840pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ HQ +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 135pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Heavy Support +

Falcon [8 PL, 155pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

Falcon [8 PL, 155pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

Falcon [8 PL, 155pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

War Walkers [12 PL, 240pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher

++ Total: [112 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

any suggestions?