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Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

I can't say enough about a trio of Blight Haulers. They actually come in a little pricey but they have lots of little rules and buffs that synergize well with a mostly foot based army. Also, with other dangerous stuff like bloat drones and demon prince's flying at them, usually they get ignored. And if it seems someone is hell bent on shooting them anyways, a single miasma of pestilence affects the whole unit, giving them a bit more survivability.
Give them a try!

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in au
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!





Melbourne, Australia

 Zid wrote:
 Brother Payne wrote:
I'm in some serious need of AT firepower in my army atm. I'm currently limited to allied Oblits and MW spam but I want to have the option of not needing CSM allies.

Entropy PBCs are pretty good against S7 and hold up against S8 stuff w/out an invuln, but if I'm taking PBCs I want to be playing them aggressively with spitters.

I really like the look of butcher cannon contemptors / leviathans, especially for DG, however probably not in an AT role. They do become more appealing against stuff with an invuln though.

The unit I'm most interested in though is a double c-beam contemptor. They're super point efficient against T8 stuff, edging out even a double grav leviathan against S8 4++ units (like loyalist leviathans). I've disregarded the grav leviathan due to its range limitations. The other appealing thing about the c-beam is it's also surprisingly good against chaff regardless of proximity, and MEQ/Primaris at 24"+.

Finally, has anyone tried c-beam or laser destroyer rapiers? Both are insanely point efficient but I'm concerned about their durability.

What are people's thoughts on our ranged AT options?


Seems like Leviathan Dreads get some work done from ranged, and I know many see success with oblits.

Personally, Foul Blightspawns are extremely potent for their points; they just lack range. However, you can advance and shoot with their flamer, giving them an average effective range of 21" which isn't shabby, and they auto hit. Entropy cannons suck (mainly) because they aren't plague weapons. so if you fail to wound, it really hurts. Plus BS 4 means you can't reposition to shoot if you want to, and it all but requires a lord to get work done (for the reroll hits).

Defilers and Soul Grinders in my experience are terrible AT. I hear Helbrutes work pretty ok for a cheap tank busting option. Honestly, I haven't had much issue between spawns and PBC's. Sure they have short range, but they're strong as hell, auto hit (so hit fliers all the time), and they are average Str 7 which hurts most vehicles. You can use a Poxbringer with the PBC's to make then Str 8 even, or run a power like Shriveling Pox to make the enemy tanks T7 instead of 8.

The butcher leviathan does fairly well against T7 and superbly against multi-wound infantry, however I'm more worried about T8 russes and leviathans.

I read your report in the other thread and the Blightspawn look like heaps of fun for sure but they seriously lack range which for me, in a meta with numerous imperial gunline armies, is problematic. Honeslty if range wasn't an issue, I'd be running a double grav leviathan in a heartbeat.

I agree with you on the entropy cannons. They really don't synergises well with the way I use my PBCs, and their output even when stationary is lackluster imo. I hadn't considered the effect of stacking Poxbringer bonus & Shrivelling Pox on plaguespitters - that could well shift the balance in their favour even against T8, given wounding on 3s. Something to look into for sure.

I know someone in the Thousad Sons thread has good success with a Defiler buffed by daemonforge, flickering flames, and prescience, but that's a lot of support just to make the one unit viable and I'm trying to drop the need for CSM allies anyway.

I'm still really interested to see how people have found c-beam contemptors and c-beam or laser destroyer rapiers. I think both of those have heaps of potential.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Brymm wrote:
I can't say enough about a trio of Blight Haulers. They actually come in a little pricey but they have lots of little rules and buffs that synergize well with a mostly foot based army. Also, with other dangerous stuff like bloat drones and demon prince's flying at them, usually they get ignored. And if it seems someone is hell bent on shooting them anyways, a single miasma of pestilence affects the whole unit, giving them a bit more survivability.
Give them a try!
I'm very sceptical of these guys' worth if I'm honest. 3 MLs and 3 MMs is not a lot of firepower for a unit that clocks in at over 400 pts and loses more than a 3rd of its damage output after losing one of them. The cover save is nice, but if I'm running an infantry heavy army they're most likely going to be Plaguebearers not DG infantry

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/21 13:25:04


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Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

 Brother Payne wrote:
 Zid wrote:
 Brother Payne wrote:
I'm in some serious need of AT firepower in my army atm. I'm currently limited to allied Oblits and MW spam but I want to have the option of not needing CSM allies.

Entropy PBCs are pretty good against S7 and hold up against S8 stuff w/out an invuln, but if I'm taking PBCs I want to be playing them aggressively with spitters.

I really like the look of butcher cannon contemptors / leviathans, especially for DG, however probably not in an AT role. They do become more appealing against stuff with an invuln though.

The unit I'm most interested in though is a double c-beam contemptor. They're super point efficient against T8 stuff, edging out even a double grav leviathan against S8 4++ units (like loyalist leviathans). I've disregarded the grav leviathan due to its range limitations. The other appealing thing about the c-beam is it's also surprisingly good against chaff regardless of proximity, and MEQ/Primaris at 24"+.

Finally, has anyone tried c-beam or laser destroyer rapiers? Both are insanely point efficient but I'm concerned about their durability.

What are people's thoughts on our ranged AT options?


Seems like Leviathan Dreads get some work done from ranged, and I know many see success with oblits.

Personally, Foul Blightspawns are extremely potent for their points; they just lack range. However, you can advance and shoot with their flamer, giving them an average effective range of 21" which isn't shabby, and they auto hit. Entropy cannons suck (mainly) because they aren't plague weapons. so if you fail to wound, it really hurts. Plus BS 4 means you can't reposition to shoot if you want to, and it all but requires a lord to get work done (for the reroll hits).

Defilers and Soul Grinders in my experience are terrible AT. I hear Helbrutes work pretty ok for a cheap tank busting option. Honestly, I haven't had much issue between spawns and PBC's. Sure they have short range, but they're strong as hell, auto hit (so hit fliers all the time), and they are average Str 7 which hurts most vehicles. You can use a Poxbringer with the PBC's to make then Str 8 even, or run a power like Shriveling Pox to make the enemy tanks T7 instead of 8.

The butcher leviathan does fairly well against T7 and superbly against multi-wound infantry, however I'm more worried about T8 russes and leviathans.

I read your report in the other thread and the Blightspawn look like heaps of fun for sure but they seriously lack range which for me, in a meta with numerous imperial gunline armies, is problematic. Honeslty if range wasn't an issue, I'd be running a double grav leviathan in a heartbeat.

I agree with you on the entropy cannons. They really don't synergises well with the way I use my PBCs, and their output even when stationary is lackluster imo. I hadn't considered the effect of stacking Poxbringer bonus & Shrivelling Pox on plaguespitters - that could well shift the balance in their favour even against T8, given wounding on 3s. Something to look into for sure.

I know someone in the Thousad Sons thread has good success with a Defiler buffed by daemonforge, flickering flames, and prescience, but that's a lot of support just to make the one unit viable and I'm trying to drop the need for CSM allies anyway.

I'm still really interested to see how people have found c-beam contemptors and c-beam or laser destroyer rapiers. I think both of those have heaps of potential.


Reports I've been reading on FB say the C-beams are pretty good, but a lot of people love the Grav Cannons more. I like the idea of both. I get what your saying though. I think I would handle gunlines more from a position of "get my demon princes there" lol, a corruption demon prince of nurgle can dominate vehicles

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Made in au
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!





Melbourne, Australia

18" is just suuuuch a short range for the grav. That's only a 26" threat range and no one is going to be stupid enough to let you get that close to their armour on turn 1. With warptime it could well be worth it, but again I'm steering away from CSM.

I do like princes and I haven't run one with the sword yet so that's definitely something I'll try. The D3 damage is a shame but S9 is a game changer

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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I gave the defiler a try and fielded it in a CSM spearhead to get access to daemon forge. When you use both daemon forge and blasphemous machines it worked ok, shooting all the way into combat and its nasty power scourge made most things want to fall back from it, if they lived to do so.
However, when it was charged by a unit of pink horrors, the defiler never managed to chew through them, effectively neutralizing it.

It doesn't really do anything that helbrutes can't do, except helbrutes can move and shoot without paying CP, and native BS 3+ and S9 on the twin lascannons makes them roughly as good at shooting as a daemonforged battlecannon. On top of that they can shoot twice via stratagem or fenzy.

So unless you want a daemon for things like Epidemius, IMO helbrutes are superior to defilers.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in au
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!





Melbourne, Australia

Even without stratagem support the math on las/scourge helbrutes looks good provided you can get them into combat. They appear to perform notably well against multi-wound infantry, T7 armour, and they're the best thing I've found to combat leviathans thus far. My concern would be that if they don't make it into combat they're not really doing all that much with just two las shots each. I think I'd prefer to be utilising the full weight of a unit from turn 1 (ie T1 charge or pure shooting). It's something to consider though.

They're very similar in both cost and versatility to a double c-beam contemptor, and are marginally superior in damage output. They trade the invuln and a couple of wounds for no degrading and the need to be in combat so idk

Edit: you'll want to be moving towards your enemy every turn so fire frenzy probably isn't worth it with this loadout

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/21 16:44:36


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Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Well, predators are always an option if you want dedicated shooting units. And it's not like someone will have shooting to spare for predators if Mortarion is charging their frontlines.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Fire frenzy would be good if you didn't have to shoot closest target. For DG, might as well use their Move and Shoot ability.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






It's bonus either way, even if you end up blasting guardmen with lascannons. And often enough, the closest unit often turns out to be a hemlock, a primarch or a knight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the topic of anti-tank:

How about stomping it with a huge robot in the name of nurgle?
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/ENG_Index_Renegade_Knights.pdf

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/22 14:56:22


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





So which load out is best for nurgle armigers. The sword and gun looks great with lots of conversion options but i think the gun option probably works better giving us something we lack long range fire power.
What do people think
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I would agree, 2 hels instead of 1 leviathan seems a better deal.

weight of shots and range with increased wounds with similiar saves(less toughness). seems to put hels over a levi imo now.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

Thoughts on Plague Marines in Rhino's? Has anyone run them a lot in 8th? I don't have a ton of experience with traditional transports in 8th (I've run Night Scythes and Monoliths in necrons) and on paper they seem great.
In my previous posts I've posted my core idea for an army to take to the Michigan GT, after a few games, I love the core but need a bit more mobility to redeploy as the game progresses, especially if I draw the card where I need three DG infantry on the opponents side of the board to score points, or need to get to objective 5 or whatever which is further than walking distance.
Also, I am going to test out 5 PMs with plasmas, flail, a blight spawn and a PF/combi plasma lord all in a single rhino driving up with my blight drones and daemon prince.
Also, I altered my fire base to be 3 squads of PMs each with 2 blight launchers and a plasmagun champ supported by the blight haulers and a arch contaminator lord and Plague caster. The blight launchers rerolling hits of one and all wounds was doing work my last few games.
I'm rambling but I'll report back on the addition of the rhino.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

For pure "DG" Armigers may be decent (i mean... its not exactly "pure"....)

But I feel like Slanesh Havok's are still better point for point due to support and strategems. Plus, 3 PBC's is still superior in a lot of cases to 2 Armigers; same wounds, more toughness, more shots that can't miss targets.

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Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





im sure armiger will be a nice add on in Dg armies, they dont have the durability of pbc (btw they can save at 4++) but they add tons of long range heavy fire, no penalty to move and shoot and stratagem to re roll to hit.for just 174pt

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Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

 blackmage wrote:
im sure armiger will be a nice add on in Dg armies, they dont have the durability of pbc (btw they can save at 4++) but they add tons of long range heavy fire, no penalty to move and shoot and stratagem to re roll to hit.for just 174pt


and 3 CP. 1 CP to make one a 4++ isn't a.... great... investment for an Armiger. The autocannon one didn't impress me much, though my dice were pretty good, they did all of 4 wounds to a single PBC in a round of shooting from two. I just don't like the idea of giving up a detachment to them, plus having no house rules, relics, etc. worth a damn. Of course, I run majority Nurgle Demons anymore

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Made in au
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!





Melbourne, Australia

COLD CASH wrote:
I would agree, 2 hels instead of 1 leviathan seems a better deal.

weight of shots and range with increased wounds with similiar saves(less toughness). seems to put hels over a levi imo now.
I haven't checked out the warglaive but I'm not impressed by the autocannon variant. 2 helvrines put out less dmg than a butcher leviathan for similar point costs and trade BS2+ / T8 / 2+ for extra range, wounds and flexibility. That's probably a good trade but 2 butcher contemptors can do what helvrines do but better imo, and they can benefit from DG reroll auras and stuff too

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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






 Brymm wrote:
Thoughts on Plague Marines in Rhino's? Has anyone run them a lot in 8th? I don't have a ton of experience with traditional transports in 8th (I've run Night Scythes and Monoliths in necrons) and on paper they seem great.
In my previous posts I've posted my core idea for an army to take to the Michigan GT, after a few games, I love the core but need a bit more mobility to redeploy as the game progresses, especially if I draw the card where I need three DG infantry on the opponents side of the board to score points, or need to get to objective 5 or whatever which is further than walking distance.
Also, I am going to test out 5 PMs with plasmas, flail, a blight spawn and a PF/combi plasma lord all in a single rhino driving up with my blight drones and daemon prince.
Also, I altered my fire base to be 3 squads of PMs each with 2 blight launchers and a plasmagun champ supported by the blight haulers and a arch contaminator lord and Plague caster. The blight launchers rerolling hits of one and all wounds was doing work my last few games.
I'm rambling but I'll report back on the addition of the rhino.


I've ran a rhino rush list a few times, never in a hyper competitive environment, but I did face a pretty annoying jetbike spam eldar list with it. It was before rule of 3, so I would need a slight mod. I believe I ran:
4x 7PM in rhino with 2 flail and 2 blightlaunchers
4 foul blightspawn (one in each rhino)
2 malefic plaguecasters
I think a daemon prince
3 plagueburst crawlers with flamespitters

I can't remember if there was anything else in the list, but I did really well against eldar, they gave up turn 3, and nearly tabled a BA and then a DA player. Later I used it as half of a 4K game against black templars and ultramarines with knight support. Obviously I can no longer run 4 foul blightspawn, but 3 is plenty. It's superb against melee armies because the blightspawn aura nullifies your opponents charging multiple units in the same turn, and if they are not that bright, will destroy anything on overwatch (poor BA player, lost half whole tac squad and half a DC unit trying to charge a blightspawn) With the plagucasters you have some decent mortal wound spewing, but the real power is how versatile plague marines are. With VotLW and blades of putrefaction, PM become pretty serious CC threats, they are not bloodletters, but they will lay down some hurt.

I feel like fists on the champion is a bit of a waste of points. Every time I run them I regret taking the fists. When you have 2 flails in a unit, the fist doesn't live up to it. 2 attacks at -1 to hit and no re-rolls to wound? Plus, it doesn't dish out mortal wounds for Blades. I would drop fists for another plague marine if you can find the points.


   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I actually had a 1vs1 game without any fancy missions rules or allies, so here is a report.

It was 1500 points versus Eldar Jetbikes, neither player knew who he was going to play, so both are TAC lists.

My list (9 CP)
Spoiler:
Battalion
Terminator Chaos Lord (storm bolter, Plague Bringer relic)
Malignant Plague Caster (Miasma of Pestilence, Plague Wind)

5 Plague Marines with 3 plasma guns
5 Plague Marines with 2 blight launchers
10 Pox Walker

Foetid Bloat-Drone
Foetid Bloat-Drone

Plagueburst Crawler (stubber, entropy cannons)
Plagueburst Crawler (stubber, entropy cannons)

Vanguard
Daemon Prince (dual talons, Curse of the Leper, Suppurating Plate relic, Warlord: Revoltingly Resilient)

Noxious Blightbringer
Foul Blightspawn
Tallyman


Eldar List (5 CP)
Spoiler:
Outrider
Windrider Autarch (missile launcher, banshee mask, fusion pistol)

7 Windrider (all shuriken cannons)
6 Windrider (all shuriken cannons)
6 Windrider (all shuriken cannons)

Outrider
Windrider Farseer (doom, executioner)

6 Shining Spears (exarch w/ star lance)
6 Shining Spears
6 Shining Spears


We draw deployments from the open war deck and end up with short table edges, but the table is split in the middle, with no no-mans land between the deployment zones. So if I deployed on the edge of my deployment zone, the eldar player could have deployed with 1" of my model.
Mission was maelstrom from CA with players drawing cards until they have 3 each turn. The only additional rules was being able to reserve anything, but neither player made use of it.

I start deploying my two brand new PBC in a huge ruined building in the middle of the board (base of the ruin was about 24x24!) with pox walkers in front of them and plague caster, tallyman and fould blightspawn between them. Behind them on objective 3 were the plasma marines, the blight launchers and the blight bringer on the other side of the ruin on objective 4. To the right of my army the daemon prince flanked by two drones were deployed to match the larges bulk of shining spears.

The eldar player pretty much deployed in rows facing me, with the shingns spears and autarch all deployed so they could charge me turn 1. He finishes deploying first and then wins the roll-off.

Eldar Turn 1 starts with everything moving forward, one unit of shining spears surrounds the large ruin to get to the plague marines there, since he needs to capture the objective they are sitting on.
Farseer attempts doom on one plague drone and fails. Attempts executioner on the DP and gets denied by the plague caster.
The unit with 7 shuriken cannons wipes out the pox walkers, scoring first blood. Then everything else but the one unit of shining spears behind the ruin shoots the outer right drone because he wanted to have it gone to be able to shoot and assault my daemon prince. Takes a ton of spears and shurikens before it dies. I pay one CP to blow it up, dealing 1 MW to every unit but one in his army. My DP saves the MW, the other drone takes 1 damage. The unit behind the ruin kills four plague marines, leaving only the champion.
Afterwards he charges the drone and the DP with his autarch to prevent overwatch (Banshee mask) and follows up with the two units of shining spears.The first unit of shining spears fights, putting two wounds on the DP, and they themselves taking 4 MW from Suppurating Plate. The DP then counter-attacks and kills four members of the shining spear unit which has not fought yet. The autarch whiffs against the DP, and due to casualty removal, the other unit can only fight the drone, since the autarch is keeping them from getting within 1" of the DP (turns out eldar jetbike bases are more than 1").
The unit behind the ruin charges the plague marines champion and the blight bringer and annihilates them, scoring him the objective.
No moral casualties. 2 VP for Eldar

Death Guard Turn 1 starts with my drone disengaging from the two spears its in combat with and jumps in front of the farseer. Plague caster advances 10" behind the DP so the is the closest model model. Foul Blightspawn moves forward, Tallyman moves just enough to have his pistol in range, staying between the PBC. Plasma marines move within 12" of the shining spears behind the ruin to counter the Allaitoc trait. Chaos Lord teleports in between the PBC and the plasma marines. I use cloud of flies on the plague marines, because I need to defend the objective they are on for 2 turns.
Prince smites autarch for 3 wounds. Plague caster casts Miasma on the daemon prince, cause 1 MW to the autarch through fallout. He then casts smite with . The autarch dies from the smite (Slay the warlord!), the fallout kills another shining spear for since it was wounded by the drone before. The plaguecaster takes three MW from perils, but ignores two of them.
Plasma marines shoot the spears with overcharged weapons despite the eldar player using evasive maneuvers on them (-1 to hit). One marine melts, one spear dies. Won't be doing that again. PBC killed a jetbike or two, not sure. Even though they hit above average, none of their guns were particularly good at killing 2W models with -1 to hit. Foul Blightspawn rolls 2 for strength, I re-roll it to be a 3. Yay! He still melts four windriders. Chaos Lord misses everything, Tallyman kills another wounded windrider, Drone melts the farseer.
In combat, the daemon prince kills another four shining spears and takes no damage in return. I score 1 VP for killing 10 models for the 7x7 DG card.
No moral casualties, 2:2 right now.

Eldar Turn 2 has him drawing the objective to score all six objectives for 3+d3 VP, as well as defending the same objective my chaos lord is sitting on. He starts by moving back his wind riders onto objective 1 and 6. Two wind riders take the objective in the ruin, right in front of my PBC. The spears from behind the ruin move towards the objective with the Chaos Lord, one unit of shining spears each disengage from the DP and move towards the chaos lord as well, one moves on the last objective. He tries to kill the chaos lord through shooting, but turns out 2+/4++ works really well, so he remains alive with 2 wounds. Shining spears from behind the ruin wipe out the plague marines. Foul Blightspawn laughs in the face of 9 shuriken cannons and is still standing with 1 wound left.
The eldar player then does a conga-line assault to take both objectives in case my Chaos Lord dies, with only the Exarch and one other fighting him. The Chaos Lord takes no damage. I use VotLW on him and fight back, rolling two fives and one six for wounds (remember, he is wielding Plague Bringer). He single-handedly kills all the shining spears except the exarch, who is left at two wounds.
Eldar player scores one point for holding objective one, and is tied for objective 3, so no points for me.
No moral casualties, Eldar 3 : Death Guard 2

Death Guard Turn 2 has the drone and the prince going after the full strength unit on objective 1, killing a bunch of them and scoring the objective.
The chaos lord disengages from combat and gets Miasma (causing fallout), the Foul Blight Spawn melts four more wind riders and then joins tallyman and plaguecaster to gang up on the two wind riders in the middle of my army and kill them.
The two PBC kill a hand full of bikes all over the place. The mortar had to shoot wind riders in the far corner due to 12" minimum range, entropy cannons and stubbers killed two shining spears. They then charge and kill another shining spear in combat (*crunch*).
I score objective 1 to make it 3:3.

Eldar Turn 3 he tries to a last ditch effort and puts his remaining two shining spears on objective 3 to defend it, once again interrupting my count. All his windriders jump my daemon prince and try to gun him down, doing 1 damage in total.

Death Guard Turn 3 is the end for the eldar. My DP casts Curse of the Leper on a single Wind Rider to kill it (to shut up the eldar player about telling me how eldar can't get sick), then charges the rest and wipes them out. Shooting from PBC, chaos lord, tallyman and foul blightspawn clear out the rest of the shining spears. I score another 1 VP for keeping my DP alive till the end of the game and 1 VP for linebreaker, ending the game with a tabling and 5:3 VP.

Things to note:
1) Plague Bringer is an awesome relic to give to a Chaos Lord, I never want to miss it again. Definitely worth the 1 CP, just for the d3 damage alone. I know dealing 3+1+2 damage and 3 mortal wounds in a single round of combat was dumb luck, but it still felt awesome.
2) Foul blightspawns are insane.
3) I start to see why people like PBC with spitters. Even though the entropy cannons hit pretty well this game (2-3 hits every turn, despite -1 to hit), it felt like they did nothing. Might have changed of there were any good targets for them though.
4) No CP gained from tallyman :(
5) Plague marines did pretty poor this game, I didn't expect shining spears to go through them like butter.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
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I've got a question that I can't answer: why foul blightspawn blight sprayer rule said that I have to determine the Strength of the weapon before determing how many shots are fired but after the target selection?? What does this rule affect/prevent?
I simply cannot find what is the difference between to know how many shots will be fired first than the strength of the weapon or the other way round XD
   
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It makes a difference for re-rolling using CP. If you know you are getting 6 shots, you might be more inclined to use a CP than when you are only getting 1 shot.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in cn
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot




Beijing,China

When comparing Helverins with existing walker choice of DG, IMO we should pick the one has simillar role and weapon properties, not only the "vanilla" lascannon/missile hellbrute. For example...contemptor with butcher cannons.

Contemptor: BS2+, 8 shots, S8 ap-1 dmg2
Armiger: BS3+, 4D3 shots(average also 8), S7 ap-1 dmg3

Against T7 3+ vehicles: Contemptor has 6.67 hits avg, 4.44 wounds, 2.22 through armor, nets 4.44 damage.
Armiger has 5.33, 2.67, 1.33, nets 4.0 damage.

Against T8 3+ tanks, Contemptor has 3.33 damage, Armiger has 2.67.

Against T6 4+ hovers, Contemptor has 5.93 damage, Armiger has 7.11.
(No need to mention that contemptor is better against units with exactly 2 wounds per model, while armiger kills 3wound-s)

Of course, Armiger has better range and speed, but it also deteriorate faster when degraded or meeting -1 to hit, and cannot easily receive re-rolls besides buring CPs. The new toys are shinning good, but the old toys are also not that bad.

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yes but... some TO, at least here in Italy wont allow FW models, and contemptor doesn't have the rule ignore heavy weapons when you move and fire, so basically he might shot at 3+ like armiger, about buff of course you are 100% right. If i use butcher cannon to have a comparable damage output often i must move to hit valuable targets, cause i have 36" range, i own two contemptors and i played sometimes then if you meet -1 to hit all depend if you must move or not. I guess the two units are close like efficiency. My bigger problem here is lot of TO wont allow FW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/27 12:05:08


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All DG Helbrutes can move and fire heavy weapons, they benefit from Inexorable Advance.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
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yes i forgot

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slatewarrior89 wrote:
I've got a question that I can't answer: why foul blightspawn blight sprayer rule said that I have to determine the Strength of the weapon before determing how many shots are fired but after the target selection?? What does this rule affect/prevent?
I simply cannot find what is the difference between to know how many shots will be fired first than the strength of the weapon or the other way round XD


If you could determine strength first, it would allow you to choose a target a bit better, and would make the gun even better than it is now. If you choose a land raider, and roll S7 with a 6 and 1, now you might CP that 1 into something to wound the land raider on 3s, but you also might only get 1 shot. It just creates a higher risk situation than if you could roll strength, then target, then shots. Also, having that rule prevents any confusion, which is nice.



   
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Beijing,China

 blackmage wrote:
yes but... some TO, at least here in Italy wont allow FW models, and contemptor doesn't have the rule ignore heavy weapons when you move and fire, so basically he might shot at 3+ like armiger, about buff of course you are 100% right. If i use butcher cannon to have a comparable damage output often i must move to hit valuable targets, cause i have 36" range, i own two contemptors and i played sometimes then if you meet -1 to hit all depend if you must move or not. I guess the two units are close like efficiency. My bigger problem here is lot of TO wont allow FW.

If the local meta refuse FW index units, then Armigers definitely worth a try.

Tokugawa plays:  
   
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Melbourne, Australia

tokugawa wrote:When comparing Helverins with existing walker choice of DG, IMO we should pick the one has simillar role and weapon properties, not only the "vanilla" lascannon/missile hellbrute. For example...contemptor with butcher cannons.

Contemptor: BS2+, 8 shots, S8 ap-1 dmg2
Armiger: BS3+, 4D3 shots(average also 8), S7 ap-1 dmg3

Against T7 3+ vehicles: Contemptor has 6.67 hits avg, 4.44 wounds, 2.22 through armor, nets 4.44 damage.
Armiger has 5.33, 2.67, 1.33, nets 4.0 damage.

Against T8 3+ tanks, Contemptor has 3.33 damage, Armiger has 2.67.

Against T6 4+ hovers, Contemptor has 5.93 damage, Armiger has 7.11.
(No need to mention that contemptor is better against units with exactly 2 wounds per model, while armiger kills 3wound-s)

Of course, Armiger has better range and speed, but it also deteriorate faster when degraded or meeting -1 to hit, and cannot easily receive re-rolls besides buring CPs. The new toys are shinning good, but the old toys are also not that bad.


tokugawa wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
yes but... some TO, at least here in Italy wont allow FW models, and contemptor doesn't have the rule ignore heavy weapons when you move and fire, so basically he might shot at 3+ like armiger, about buff of course you are 100% right. If i use butcher cannon to have a comparable damage output often i must move to hit valuable targets, cause i have 36" range, i own two contemptors and i played sometimes then if you meet -1 to hit all depend if you must move or not. I guess the two units are close like efficiency. My bigger problem here is lot of TO wont allow FW.

If the local meta refuse FW index units, then Armigers definitely worth a try.
This. Agree with both of these

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Gotta love DG players.
"This unit is slightly better, but you can use the other one if FW is a problem"
"Agree"
"Agree"

Every other tactics thread would have erupted into a flame war by now

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

 tokugawa wrote:
When comparing Helverins with existing walker choice of DG, IMO we should pick the one has simillar role and weapon properties, not only the "vanilla" lascannon/missile hellbrute. For example...contemptor with butcher cannons.

Contemptor: BS2+, 8 shots, S8 ap-1 dmg2
Armiger: BS3+, 4D3 shots(average also 8), S7 ap-1 dmg3

Against T7 3+ vehicles: Contemptor has 6.67 hits avg, 4.44 wounds, 2.22 through armor, nets 4.44 damage.
Armiger has 5.33, 2.67, 1.33, nets 4.0 damage.

Against T8 3+ tanks, Contemptor has 3.33 damage, Armiger has 2.67.

Against T6 4+ hovers, Contemptor has 5.93 damage, Armiger has 7.11.
(No need to mention that contemptor is better against units with exactly 2 wounds per model, while armiger kills 3wound-s)

Of course, Armiger has better range and speed, but it also deteriorate faster when degraded or meeting -1 to hit, and cannot easily receive re-rolls besides buring CPs. The new toys are shinning good, but the old toys are also not that bad.


Great comparison! Of course, the Contemptor has access to a lot of buffs the Armiger doesn't have. This is still good food for thought.... I'm not sold on the Knights yet, the only one I'm slightly interested in is the Castellan and thats because its flamer makes me super, duper happy. I'm a big fan of flamers in 8th.... lol

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yes 3d6 autohits str7 ap-2 d 2 is juicy, but almost 600pts and still no sinergy and or good traits and stratagems. Next week end i ll try a renegade 2xavenger and 2 contemptor with 2 butcher cannons, then i will try 2 armiger with 2 cannons and i will see which is better, i could also play 3 armigers and 2 contemptors only, anything to test.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/28 17:52:17


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