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Does anyone know what the top8 Tsons list at BAO was?

orkswubwub wrote:
Does anyone know what the top8 Tsons list at BAO was?

According to reddit

Thousand Sons Battalion

Ahriman
Daemon Prince (Talons)
10 Cultists (Autoguns)
26 Tzaangors (Blades, Brayhorn)
26 Tzaangors (Blades, Brayhorn)
Shaman (Helm of 3rd Eye)

Alpha Legion Patrol

Sorcerer (Slaanesh)
35 Cultists (Autoguns, Slaanesh)
14 Noise Marines (Sonic Blasters)

World Eaters Battalion

Kharn
Exalted Champion (Power Sword, Chainsword)
5x Bezerkers (Chainsword, Chainaxe) (Champ: Powerfist, Chainsword)
5x Bezerkers (Chainsword, Chainaxe) (Champ: Powerfist, Chainsword)
5x Bezerkers (Chainsword, Chainaxe) (Champ: Powerfist, Chainsword)
Rhino (2x Combi-Bolters)

...How in the world is that a Thousand Sons army? They should have called that Chaos Undivided.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
...How in the world is that a Thousand Sons army? They should have called that Chaos Undivided.

Its not really anyones fault - ITC just bases the declared chapter based on whichever has the most points. It matters more for ITC standings - I was wondering as the way Frontline wrote on their site it sounded like the player was using magnus so I was surprised...

orkswubwub wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
...How in the world is that a Thousand Sons army? They should have called that Chaos Undivided.

Its not really anyones fault - ITC just bases the declared chapter based on whichever has the most points. It matters more for ITC standings - I was wondering as the way Frontline wrote on their site it sounded like the player was using magnus so I was surprised...

They should just catagorize armies based on if they draw from a single codex or not. Quit calling an army Blood Angels just because most of its points is in a Death Company and not the CP farm Imperial Guard detachment. This sort of rubbish makes it impossible to find the lists that actually represent the army and not some weird version of an army no one actually plays outside of these sort of events.

/rant

Anyways I've been mulling over a pure TS army at the 2k level and I think I'm just about done hashing out what I'm looking at building, so I'll be throwing it out there for some ideas/advice in the near future. I'm considering expanding into Tzeentch daemons eventually, but for now I'm going to stick to my TS until I run out of stuff that I want to add to my army/collection.

I agree, the faction categorization in these events is really bad.
To the point I suspect its intentional.

i know there were another Ts list in top8
Btw regardless of anything look so strange that a list with no troops won the BAO, suppose he tabled or almost tabled most of his opponents, im not used here in Italy see a successful list without any form of obj secure units.

Hey Guys,

Sorry if this is a common question, I cant seem to find a dedicated thread for it.

What is the most effective psychic powers that you take with Magnus and 2x daemon princes? Their role in the army is to be really aggressive, I don't have any tsons or heretical astartes units to really buff.

I run a mixed list of tsons running cultists with autoguns, one medium size blob of tzaangors and a renegade knight detachment of a knight and 2x armigers for dakka.

I tried a set up where I had glamour and weaver of fates on magnus and I see people taking temporal mastery on him and just rushing him up the board, so just curious what you guys would run psychic wise with this kind of list.

Thanks!

usually i play Ahriman+2Dp's and Magnus
i give Magnus, weaver of fate warptime and infernal gateway, Ahriman get temporal manipulation glamour of tz and death hex
the prince with high magister has bolt of change and diabolic strenght
the other one gaze of fate and tz firestorm
If you have tzaangors and you dont play a shaman you can think about prescience on Ahriman or high magister Dp
then you can make Ahriman more aggressive with doombolt giving temporal manipulation to the last Dp, is all about the enemy you face, some key powers must go on Magnus to be quite sure they gets off.

For anyone interested a user on r/thousandsons does lots of list write ups based on tournaments. There are actually a good handful of “real” TS lists on there. It should be easy to find if you poke around the sub.

I didn't see a 1ksons Kill Team thread - anyone tried them out yet? I don't think I'd go all in for a 40k army, but a box of Rubrics and Tzaangors is not out of the question going forward. They seem to have a nice mix of everything - solid shooting (though lacking multi-damage weapons), reasonable melee, some cheap bodies, one of the two with Psychic powers, fairly tough (especially since they're 2+ against most guns in the game).

What have you used and how successful was it?

Hi, so i am totally new again to the hobby. Was very active back in 4th and a bit of 5th ed, but then i stopped. But now i decided to come back again, you can run as fast as you want, but you can never escaping Wargaming it seems.

Anyway. So i bought myself back into the game again with Thousand Sons, i was awestruck when i saw them, and i got some questions i hope some of you can help me with.

So i very much like Rubric Marines and Tzaangors so i bought a box of each (thinks its important to start with troops first) and i am wondering, what is the best setup for them? Rubric Marine flamers seems very good but very expensive, so should i just go with the standard Inferno pistol, and the debate if its 5 man groups or 10 man, i want them in a Rhino as dedicated transport, what is the most optimal? (In your opinion).

And Tzaangors, well it seems they are a blob unit with 20-30 in each, but i havent seen anyone talk about their weapon setup, so a little insight would help a lot,

And then there is stratagems, very interesting aspect of the game. Ive looked through our codex and the 'Webway Infiltration' looked especially good, id imagine a Tzaangor blob is good for Deep Striking with that stratagem. But what other stratagems should i look out for?

Last thing. I love Scarab Occult Terminators, their look is amazing. But what about on the table?

Sorry for all of these questions, i am going to read through all the 67 pages of this Topic so i can learn as much as possible (:

Well, honestly, it seems rubrics work best in 5 man teams. That gives you the optimum number of smites. But that doesnt stop me from running 2 groups of 10 for soul reapers (love them Soul reaper autocannons). I dont usually run flamers because rubrics are already expensive and inferno bolters are what i prefer, but small 5 man squads of flamers can really put out the damage if you deploy them in a rhino.

This edition of 40k is all about hordes. Tzaangors and cultists whenever you can, followed by rubrics and the like for supportive rolls, works well enough for friendly games. If your looking more competitive most of those serious lists wont run rubrics. I ususally run my tzaangors in groups of 12-18, using a dark matter crystal to put them into deep strike range t1. Webway infiltration doesn't allow t1 assault. As for weapons, i give them cc blades, they are ment for cc not shooting so why bother?

Scarab occult look cool but are too expensive to be really useful. However it does depend on what your trying to do. If you are looking at ruberics and planning to deep strike them occult are better due to free ds.

Stratagems to look at are things like deamonforge, veterans of the long war, and chaos familiar. Swapping a useless spell for a better option later in the game can be very important.

Hope that helps.

As mentioned, if you're spamming baby smite (and maybe other powers) then 5 man units of Rubrics will be optimal, but if you want the heavy weapons you'll need at least 10 in a unit.

As for the warpflamer I stick to a 1 to 5 ratio of flamers to bodies. That keeps unit cost down while giving me some charge protection/anti-horde for my units.

As for Tzaangors, I like the Tzaangor blades (wish the shields had some utility like +1 to their saves because I like how they look with sword and board) since I don't feel autopistol shots are worth writing home about on a unit that could have an extra attack and smack with -1 AP. I'm currently building a unit of 30 to throw up the board and get stuck in early in the game.

One thing to note about Scarab Occult Terminators is that a unit of 5 with all the toys (a Soulreaper and Hellfyre Missiles namely) will be roughly the same cost as a kitted out Rubrics squad (with how I run my Rubrics it's actually cheaper but this is because Warpflamers cost almost as much as an extra body and the two I take push the price of my Rubric squads up by 30 points, which is about 20 points too much in my opinion), and they are definitely the best terminator choice in the game right now (getting to effectively ignore the first -1AP against 1 damage weapons forcing people to overcharge their plasma if they want to reliably weaken your armour, and even then you still have a 4++ so you still save more wounds than regular Terminators).

Basically the SoT are best used in a minimum sized unit with a couple of upgrades to maximize the damage they through out on the drop and then expect them to die to return fire (as such you should try to make that 9" charge if your target survives as being in combat could keep you alive longer).

That said, I'd probably only take a single unit of them since I want a Shaman (or two) to support my Goats (one for my blob of Tzaangors, one for the Elightened with their spears), and use them like Chaos Marines have been using Terminators for a long time: dropping in on a high priority target, lighting it up and then expecting them to die when the opponent lights them up the next turn.

Hello friends. Is it possible normal play a thousand sons without tzaangors in a non-sporting meta?

kolos wrote:
Hello friends. Is it possible normal play a thousand sons without tzaangors in a non-sporting meta?

While Rubrics are more durable than Marines, they're fairly pricey meaning you're not going to have a lot of bodies on the board and will need to plan accordingly.

Additionally Tzaangors provide the army with some much needed melee support that our shooting focus heavy faction lacks normally. So while possible, you're going to find yourself in a bad situation if you don't run some melee support.

On a different note, I mentioned a while ago that I was looking to build a 2k list and finally settled on what I'm planning to run. It's definitely more aggressive than some lists (and I definitely need to go back and adjust to fit in Brayhorns when I sit down with the book again as I just realized I forgot about them) but I think it could be a fair bit of fun in the less competetive meta my FLGS tends to have (plus there is a heavy focus on melee in people's armies so having something that can punch back seems like a good idea).

Thousand Sons 2k
++HQ++
Exalted Sorceror (2x Power Sword, Disc) Warlord (Aetherstride), Relic: (Seer's Bane) 140

Exalted Sorceror (Force Stave, Inferno Bolt pistol) Relic: (Helm of the Third Eye or Dark Matter Crystal) 121

++Troops++
Rubric Marines (10 models, Soul Reaper, 2x Warpflamer, 6x Inferno Bolt gun, AS: Force Stave, Inferno Bolt pistol) 236

Tzaangors (30 models, 30x Tzaangor blades) 210

Tzaangors (30 models, 30x Tzaangor blades) 210

++Elites++
Tzaangor Shaman (Force Stave) 90

Scarab Occult Terminator (5 models, 4x combi Inferno bolter, Soul Reaper, Hellfyre Rack, 4x Power Sword, 1x Force Stave) 234

++Fast Attack++
Tzaangor Elightened (6 models, 6x Divining Spears) 96

Chaos Spawn (5 models) 165

++Heavy Support++
Defiler (Twin Lascannon, Havoc Launcher, Combi-bolter) 204

Mutalith Vortex Beast 150

Predator (Predator Autocannon, Heavy bolter x2, Havoc Launcher, Combi-bolter) 138

I like it. That vortex beast is going to get targeted hard by anyone that has an idea of what it can do so i would suggest protecting it with weaver of fates / glamor of tzeentch. If they let it live boost those tzaangors and make them suffer.

However i would look at ways to save a few points and make those sorcerers deamon princes. Nothing punishes an enemy harder than a deamon prince with aetherstride flying 36" across the table t1 and hitting something open hard. Have the 2nd deamon prince (i dont give my 2nd one wings) dark matter cryatal a large blob of tzaangors up to charge as well (Between a brayhorn for 8" charge and rerolling a dice from gaze of fate and command point reroll you should get in unless the dice gods hate you) its a serious hard hitting t1, followed by everything else being in range t2. Play super aggressive and super confident and you can make almost anyone take a second look at Tsons.

But the true key is be sure to target exactly what your enemy has that will hurt you, and dont bite off more than you can chew. Hitting what will hurt you, ignoring what you simply can't deal with, and using the speed of that t1 move/dmc teleport to hit the flank or center that needs to be weakened so the rest of your army can focus on the actual objectives of the mission.

Azuza001 wrote:
I like it. That vortex beast is going to get targeted hard by anyone that has an idea of what it can do so i would suggest protecting it with weaver of fates / glamor of tzeentch. If they let it live boost those tzaangors and make them suffer.

However i would look at ways to save a few points and make those sorcerers deamon princes. Nothing punishes an enemy harder than a deamon prince with aetherstride flying 36" across the table t1 and hitting something open hard. Have the 2nd deamon prince (i dont give my 2nd one wings) dark matter cryatal a large blob of tzaangors up to charge as well (Between a brayhorn for 8" charge and rerolling a dice from gaze of fate and command point reroll you should get in unless the dice gods hate you) its a serious hard hitting t1, followed by everything else being in range t2. Play super aggressive and super confident and you can make almost anyone take a second look at Tsons.

But the true key is be sure to target exactly what your enemy has that will hurt you, and dont bite off more than you can chew. Hitting what will hurt you, ignoring what you simply can't deal with, and using the speed of that t1 move/dmc teleport to hit the flank or center that needs to be weakened so the rest of your army can focus on the actual objectives of the mission.

If it lives to buff the Tzaangors it's a bonus, if it's being shot down then it works as a distraction carnifex and can buff itself in combat.

And I know the Daemon Princes are popular, but to make room for some of the things I want to try out in more casual games I stepped back from them to run Sorcerors instead. That said, if the melee Sorceror ends up dead all the time then I'll look for a way to change him into a DP instead.

I'm sure the more I play and the more I get a handle of the current nature of my local meta my list will change (perhaps turn a unit of Tzaangors into a unit of Cultists and give them 4x heavy stubbers and shove them on my back line to screen and hold an objective). Basically I feel like 8th encourages an almost rainbow list of various units (at least outside of crunchier metas) and that can make for some interesting games.

Magnus!

I finally gave in and got the Primarch, even though I knew that he is no longer (if he ever was) a good unit as such.

I want to fit him in a 1750pts pure TS army, for a local league, which is mostly friendly gaming and win-at-all-costs -lists. But as always it would be nice to do "ok" rather than fail completely.

To that end, and keeping in mind that its pure TS, what should I try to protect/leverage Magnus with? He eats anti-tank shots, so, something tanky to go along? Helbrute, Scarabs?

Also, I was thinking about using the crystal to drop 20ish Tzangoors in first turn out there to support Magnus, if I go first and Magnus has something worthwhile he could assault.

Is it at all viable to "castle up" a bit with Magnus, sling super-smites, and have sh**load of casters take advantage of his aura?

Thanks for any input!

Timmon

I have seen quite a few different 1KS lists running one or multiple Daemon Princes without wings. What is the reasoning behind running a 1KS prince without wings?

Is there a secret strat that I should know about ?

for me is just saving points if you dont put wings on a Dp, nothing else

The problem is, the prince is mostly a CC beast
And without wings, he can't reliably get to CC.

 BoomWolf wrote:
The problem is, the prince is mostly a CC beast
And without wings, he can't reliably get to CC.

While I agree, I also think that a Prince on foot will be in combat turn 2 or 3 anyway, if you want it to be, with the first turn/2 turns simply using the Character rule to smite and use other powers.

Someone in the past mentioned that a Prince on foot is only a tiny amount of points more expensive than an Exalted Sorcerer on disk, so, if you have one of those, and a few points spare, the upgrade makes sense in a lot of cases.

A Daemon prince on foot is now I think of it very very good in term of value.

You get for 156 points:


CC monster
Good strength and Toughness
3+/4++
2 power and smite
8inch move

If you give him Warptime and Diabolic Strength you make up for not having wings and you will have 8 strength 9 attacks at -2 / 2 damage.

That's actually very strong.

The biggest things wings give you is movement flexibility. It's not necessarily the extra 4" - a DP w/out fly is far easier to screen against than one with fly. The same goes for all combat characters.

That being said, I think a DP on foot may be viable as a backfield support / countercharge unit

I agree that the wings give you the movement options.

But, currently the “competitive” Thousand Sons list is a very different setup. It is currently starting to catch up to the original ideas we had here, in regards to smite and power spam. In that kind of setup, it doesn’t matter whether or not you can charge or move over units, as the intention is almost to be a big smite ball behind big, durable and/or cheap screens. One of the current options is a big blob of pink horrors rocking a fantastic invuln save via stratagem boosting. In a lot of games, if you control your objective and the mid-table, then the pressure is on the opponent to break that hold. They need to then come to your Princes. 30 mortal wounds a turn, is 30 mortal wounds chewing through their screens and forward moving units. Of course, it’s not always that simple, but the concept is there.

Kdash wrote:
I agree that the wings give you the movement options.

But, currently the “competitive” Thousand Sons list is a very different setup. It is currently starting to catch up to the original ideas we had here, in regards to smite and power spam. In that kind of setup, it doesn’t matter whether or not you can charge or move over units, as the intention is almost to be a big smite ball behind big, durable and/or cheap screens. One of the current options is a big blob of pink horrors rocking a fantastic invuln save via stratagem boosting. In a lot of games, if you control your objective and the mid-table, then the pressure is on the opponent to break that hold. They need to then come to your Princes. 30 mortal wounds a turn, is 30 mortal wounds chewing through their screens and forward moving units. Of course, it’s not always that simple, but the concept is there.

I am building a list that mainly relies on having a lot of different moving parts consistent of Death Guard Fast Attack Units, mainly Foetid-Bloat Drones being led by a DP of Nurgle, backed up by either Magnus or Mortarion. The Tzeentch DP's without wings along side a horde of Cultists would provide strong counter-attack options and just overal power spam. Or at least, that the idea behind the list

Wingless DP with a second (because the first is in the webway) Tzaangor flerd is cheap, cheerful, and cannot be ignored. It buffs its flerd with -1 or +1++ to hit on the way in, pops diabolic strngth on turn 2 and goes nuts.

Yeah, the extra tiny number of points to go to dp without wings from exalted is almost always worth it. As a backfield support unit i run mine with a defiler. It keeps deffy running at optimal status and deffy keeps him from being a target of shooting. Them and 2 squads of 5 men rubrics make up my typical anvil position and seldom let me down. I mean, who wants to assault a dp and defiler standing there? And the rubrics and dp can smite/gaze their way into easy value while the tzaangors / mutalith / warlord dp / 10 man rubrics keep masive pressure up on the main front.

I do not like how Rubrics perform. How i am using them is 2x5 Rubrics in cover to protect my DPs and Ahriman (Character rule).