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Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




I'm not so negative about the infiltrators, they allow us to play aggressive. We can set them up very close to the enemy and if we don't get first turn, one can use the new interesting WT to redeploy them somewhere else. Just placing them in a building in mid field gives us a nice board control and I'd be happy with that already. One cannot expect miracles from them but I'm still going to try 3x 5 men units and see how they do. Eliminators are amazing, the fact you can snipe and do it without line of sight is already a win condition for me.
Suppressors are probably a little bit underwhelming: they have mobility which they trade for reduced fire power. I'm still not sure how to use them.
Of course I've ordered the new box which I will split with my betrayer buddy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/12 08:59:42


 
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Ok,
got my hands on the new vanguard primaris codex.

For you who might be interested the following points stand:

Captain 119
Librarian 111
Lieutenant 86
Inflitrators 22/32 for adept, which is compulsory in 10man unit
Suppressors 35 =105 for 3man
Eliminators 24 = 72 for 3man

Quite expensive I'd say.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Thanks for the points. They do look a tad expensive. Hopefully they will come down a bit just like the original Dark Imperium units did. If we could get those prices down 10-15%, they would start looking interesting.

Eliminators look better than Sniper Scouts for their points but are Heavy, not Troop which makes them less useful for a Battalion. I can see them being good to fill out a Brigade though.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I'm no competitive mastermind, but I saw one of the new Vanguard warlord traits and thought it at least merited discussion:

Princeps of Deceit
If your warlord has this trait, then at the start of the first battle round, but before the first turn has begun, pick up to three friendly <Chapter> Infantry units that are on the battlefield. You can immediately remove these units from the battlefield and set them up again as described in the Deployment section of the mission you are playing.

I read that as not only being able to move a unit from one side of the board to the other but as being able to take a deployed unit and move it into deepstrike if it has such a rule. I see this as being particularly useful with Death Company units and DVoS Captains, especially in missions where you might be required to set up your entire army first, and then your opponent counter-deploys. You could, for example, set up your blob of Death Company with the intention of Forlorn Fury'ing them up the board. If your opponent counters this by setting his army up in the diagonal corner you could pick your Death Company and just move them to the other side, right across from his/her juicy units. You could also just pick your Death Company up and put them into reserve if they deployed in such a way as to screen them out entirely, or more importantly if they seized the initiative from you. Another option might be to deploy both your Death Company and DVoS Captain on the board, and then just pick up the one which had been countered. If your opponent focuses on screening your large blob, but leaves a tiny hole your Captain could exploit, you can put your blob back into reserves and move your Captain to best exploit the gap with Forlorn Fury.

Like I said, I don't know if this is the most competitive trait now available to us, but just wanted to see others' thoughts.

Utilizing this warlord trait would also require making one of the new Vanguard HQs our warlord. I'm currently thinking the Librarian looks the most useful as the new psychic powers add a few tools to our toolbox. I'm not sold on the Phobos units, so the last three are the only ones I've really considered. Getting a CP back here and there seems useful, as well as halving movement of an enemy unit in all phases. As these powers require line of sight it could be an unnecessary risk, especially for your warlord, but you could also swap out one for the move/advance power and sort of 'fire and fade' your Librarian out of LoS after using whichever other power you had selected since he has the Phobos keyword himself.

Thoughts?
   
Made in fi
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





It's a bit over 50% chance, but I like that idea. I would probably use that to move a gunline to shoot a juicy reachable target in most cases, but I can see a place to either move a DC blob from one side to another where it could use forlon's fury, movement and charge to reach that target or move a smash captain for forlon's fury if it can reach it's target.

But to move a gunline to a vulnerable flank and get that free shooting might have a huge impact in the game, when your opponent has counter deployed to avoid being shot. Move the DC blob, supressor squad and the phobos cpt/ltn to buff the suppressors to deny overwatch from the DC target and not having moved for heavy weapon purposes. I will definetely try this out asap. Sure it's most useful if you get the first turn or get the seize, but it wouöd let me deploy aggressively even if I don't seize and move my units's away from direct harm.

That strategy would work better with dark angels azrael, PC devs, hellblasters to get that vuljeraboe flank your aggressive "so called deployment" forced your opponent to counter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/16 21:33:06


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

So, how does pure Primaris Blood Angels work? Especially with the new vanguard units?

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Intercessors work as well for BAs as any other Chapter. They are generally better than tactical squads and a bit better still with the new Bolter Discipline rule.

Inceptors are good as they can benefit from "Upon Wings of Fire" and the buff auras of any jump pack characters.

I have not run any of the other Primaris units yet but none of them stand out as being significantly better for BAs than any other chapter.

I have not picked up the Vanguard units yet. The infiltrators look interesting as they allow you to get a lot of Troops into the midfield quickly. They look like better bolter Scouts. The problem is their price looks a bit high for what they bring.

Eliminators look good. They are better than Sniper scouts for their points and they are pretty cheap. The only downside is that they are Heavy rather than Troops. Good if you are suffering from enemy buffing characters or if you need some cheap Heavy units to fill out a Brigade.

Suppressors also look interesting and fill a useful niche as we do not get many autocannon units outside of the Predator.

Overall a bit of a mixed bag. Potentially useful units but I am not sure they are much better than any of our existing toys.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

 Karhedron wrote:
Intercessors work as well for BAs as any other Chapter. They are generally better than tactical squads and a bit better still with the new Bolter Discipline rule.

Inceptors are good as they can benefit from "Upon Wings of Fire" and the buff auras of any jump pack characters.

I have not run any of the other Primaris units yet but none of them stand out as being significantly better for BAs than any other chapter.

I have not picked up the Vanguard units yet. The infiltrators look interesting as they allow you to get a lot of Troops into the midfield quickly. They look like better bolter Scouts. The problem is their price looks a bit high for what they bring.

Eliminators look good. They are better than Sniper scouts for their points and they are pretty cheap. The only downside is that they are Heavy rather than Troops. Good if you are suffering from enemy buffing characters or if you need some cheap Heavy units to fill out a Brigade.

Suppressors also look interesting and fill a useful niche as we do not get many autocannon units outside of the Predator.

Overall a bit of a mixed bag. Potentially useful units but I am not sure they are much better than any of our existing toys.

Do Blood Angels make any good use of Reivers?

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Red Thirst is a good combo with Reivers who will get 3 attacks (with combat blade). The problem is that Reivers themselves are not particularly good. 3 S4 Ap- attacks is not going to threaten anything apart from chaff, even with Red Thirst. Like most units coming in from Reserves, they will struggle to make the 9" charge.

They have some interesting tricks such as shutting down overwatch but some of their other abilities (like -1 LD) hardly ever work because the kind of units they can threaten are generally immune to moral.

I have heard they will be getting the PHOBOS keyword to allow them synergise better with Vanguard units but I still don't rate them very highly. We have an excellent selection of assault units in our toolbox but Reivers really aren't among them.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in de
Enginseer with a Wrench






Also primaris have pretty good synergy with our relic banner. Having a 5+ FnP on a 2W model is much better as on a 1W model.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 lash92 wrote:
Also primaris have pretty good synergy with our relic banner. Having a 5+ FnP on a 2W model is much better as on a 1W model.

Very true. Hellblasters and Intceptors work particularly well IMHO.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in de
Enginseer with a Wrench






Or just intercessor they are really durable with this point for point and form a good base.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, this is my BA list I'll try out next time. Thanks to pfreak for helpful comments.

New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [120 PL, 1998pts]

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [61 PL, 987pts]

HQ
Captain [6 PL, 124pts]
Selections: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer
Captain [6 PL, 124pts]
Selections: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Troops
Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]
Selections: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant
Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]
Selections: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant
Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]
Selections: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Elites
Sanguinary Ancient [6 PL, 78pts]
Selections: 3. Soulwarden, Angelus boltgun, Death mask, Power fist, The Veritas Vitae, Warlord
Sanguinary Guard [20 PL, 256pts]
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts]
Selections: Armorium Cherub
Space Marine
Selections: Missile launcher
Space Marine
Selections: Missile launcher
Space Marine
Selections: Missile launcher
Space Marine
Selections: Missile launcher
Space Marine Sergeant
Selections: Boltgun

Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [26 PL, 434pts]

HQ
Techmarine [5 PL, 56pts]
Selections: Boltgun, Chainsword
Servo-harness
Selections: Flamer, Plasma cutter

Elites
Dreadnought [7 PL, 126pts]
Selections: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon
Dreadnought [7 PL, 126pts]
Selections: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon
Dreadnought [7 PL, 126pts]
Selections: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon

Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [33 PL, 577pts]

HQ
Librarian Dreadnought [9 PL, 142pts]
Selections: 3. Shield of Sanguinius, 6. Wings of Sanguinus, Furioso fist, Storm bolter

Elites
Contemptor Dreadought [8 PL, 145pts]
Selections: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon
Contemptor Dreadought [8 PL, 145pts]
Selections: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon
Contemptor Dreadought [8 PL, 145pts]
Selections: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon

Created with BattleScribe

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

You can give your intercessors free grenade launchers, one per unit. Your sang ancient needs the standard of sacrifice. For 2 pts you can give your techmarine a stormbolter.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

I agree with p5freak.

I would also give your Libby Dread Quickening rather than shield of Sanguinius as the +D3 attacks and +3" charge move is more useful generally than a 5++. The 5++ only kicks in against AP-3 and above. You can generally use the Libby Dread's CHARACTER status to shield it from heavy weapons fire. It may come in handy occasionally against nasty melee units but even then I prefer the extra attacks on the basis that a good offense is often the best defense. You won't need a 5++ if you can kill the enemy before it strikes.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Karhedron wrote:
I agree with p5freak.

I would also give your Libby Dread Quickening rather than shield of Sanguinius as the +D3 attacks and +3" charge move is more useful generally than a 5++. The 5++ only kicks in against AP-3 and above. You can generally use the Libby Dread's CHARACTER status to shield it from heavy weapons fire. It may come in handy occasionally against nasty melee units but even then I prefer the extra attacks on the basis that a good offense is often the best defense. You won't need a 5++ if you can kill the enemy before it strikes.


Wulfen beg to differ.

Good advice, though.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 p5freak wrote:
You can give your intercessors free grenade launchers, one per unit. Your sang ancient needs the standard of sacrifice. For 2 pts you can give your techmarine a stormbolter.

I'll keep this in mind and will change accordingly.
Same for Quickening.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, for my list I'd buy a 2nd relic - veritas vitae and sacred standard.
A BA army shouldn't go out without them.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






How does a BA Primaris army fair, maybe with some Sanguinary Guard added in? I was considering starting up the ol vampires again as nu marines.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 Tiberius501 wrote:
How does a BA Primaris army fair, maybe with some Sanguinary Guard added in? I was considering starting up the ol vampires again as nu marines.

Mixed bag really. Some Primaris units like Inceptors work really well with access to stratagems like "Upon Wings of Fire" and our ready access to jump pack characters to buff their shooting.

On the other hand, our Chapter Trait doesn't massively boost many Primaris units due to the lack of dedicated melee specialists.

Standard of Sacrifice works well on 2-wound models so Primaris get plenty of mileage out of it but if you are running Sanguinary Guard, it is probably needed with them even more.

My BA army has been pretty successful in 8th but I have generally used the Primaris marines as support elements rather than the main force of the army. Possibly some of the new units from Shadowspear like Infiltrators could work well. Infiltrating 30 models with 2 wounds and attacks each + Red Thirst close to the enemy could potentially be quite powerful against a lot of armies but I feel Infiltrators are a bit overpriced at the moment.

Still, the units in Dark Imperium came down a bit in price not long after release so if Infiltrators come down to under 20 points per model, they could make a promising core for a Primaris-heavy BA army.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






 Karhedron wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
How does a BA Primaris army fair, maybe with some Sanguinary Guard added in? I was considering starting up the ol vampires again as nu marines.

Mixed bag really. Some Primaris units like Inceptors work really well with access to stratagems like "Upon Wings of Fire" and our ready access to jump pack characters to buff their shooting.

On the other hand, our Chapter Trait doesn't massively boost many Primaris units due to the lack of dedicated melee specialists.

Standard of Sacrifice works well on 2-wound models so Primaris get plenty of mileage out of it but if you are running Sanguinary Guard, it is probably needed with them even more.

My BA army has been pretty successful in 8th but I have generally used the Primaris marines as support elements rather than the main force of the army. Possibly some of the new units from Shadowspear like Infiltrators could work well. Infiltrating 30 models with 2 wounds and attacks each + Red Thirst close to the enemy could potentially be quite powerful against a lot of armies but I feel Infiltrators are a bit overpriced at the moment.

Still, the units in Dark Imperium came down a bit in price not long after release so if Infiltrators come down to under 20 points per model, they could make a promising core for a Primaris-heavy BA army.


Thanks for the reply and advice.

As long as they're half effective it's good enough for me, I'm not too competitive. Just wanted to make sure they wouldn't just get splattered into red mist.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




We can fly again!

<Looks at points costs>

I guess no one really cares, still.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





So we can fly through units in the movement and charge phase, but not the fight phase, correct? So during pile-in and consolidate, in order to take hostages, models still need to move around rather than through. Is that accurate? I hope not.
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




hintzy wrote:
So we can fly through units in the movement and charge phase, but not the fight phase, correct? So during pile-in and consolidate, in order to take hostages, models still need to move around rather than through. Is that accurate? I hope not.


Sadly I don't think you can do that. In addition I still don't understand why you can cross a terrain feature only during the Movement phase but you can fail the charge as you have to take into account the vertical distance... If I play with some high piece of terrain ruin it is still very hard to engage that annoying unit sitting on the top. I'm still disappointed with the rules: I haven't been playing our core blood angels units, namely DC and sanguinary guards, because they literally destroyed their mobility for which we are still paying for! I was hoping we could get back to the horizontal charge but no...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 11:22:12


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




You can get most of your surround on in the charge phase if you do it correctly.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





What would the thoughts of the community here be about a dedicated flamer unit? I'm thinking the following:

1 Devastator Squad, 4 heavy flamers, 1 combi-flamer, armorium cherub.
1 Lieutenant, combi-flamer.
1 Razorback, 2 heavy flamers.

This will get an effective threat range of 3" disembark +6" move +8" range, and roll 4+1+2 heavy flamer shots with 2 flamer shots and two bolter shots (one at +1 BS). It's not especially resilient, but 9D6 flame hits re-rolling 1s to wound is pretty threatening. The whole thing's around 300-ish points.

Other options for filling this kind of role would be company veterans/sternguard all carrying combi-flamers which would have a lower strength, but be able to advance and fire for additional threat range, and be a little cheaper in points. Another one could be a couple of Baal Preds.

Would this be a useful unit to field, all things considered? My main worry would be that it'd be too easy for the enemy to eliminate/neutralise if they wanted to, and not make it's points back.

Who wills,
Can.
Who tries,
Does.
Who loves,
Lives. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Personally I am not a big fan of flamers and heavy flamers in 8th, I think they are overpriced for what they bring and painfully short ranged.

For similar points you can get 7 Bolter Inceptors ( a 3 and 4 man squad). These will give you a similar number of S5 AP-1 hits as those flamers but with a range of 18" rather than 8". They also have a 10" move so do not need a transport. They can deploy on the board or in reserve as needed. They can redeploy with UWOF if we need them to.

They are similar in terms of durability although every 2 wounds will kill a model whereas your opponent will have to chew through the Razorback to get to your infantry (until you disembark at least).

The big advantage of the flamer unit is their awesome overwatch. However it has to be said that even they don't want to get tied up in combat as it will shut down their shooting while Inceptors can withdraw and still shoot. Also the longer range of Inceptors means they can shoot without automatically putting themselves in charge range of the survivors.

Overall I would say Inceptors are better than flamer squads, especially for Blood Angels.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Flamers are MEH.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





30 Intercessors with the ancient and standard of sacrifice is amazing. I have also been using 2 Redemptor Dreads and playtesting with 2 Primaris Librarians, giving them a 5++ save always unless my opponent goes first/deny roll. If I go first they are extremely tanky assuming the powers go off. Libbies also benifet from the standard, add a Gravis Captain for more fun for your firebase. Stuff gets close? No prob, you got the Dreads and Gravis captain and dont be afraid to get your librarian force swords dirty.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

In matched play, you are not allowed to cast a psychic power more than once in each psychic phase.
   
 
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