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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey I play Deathguard and I think they need to update the Reaper Autocannon.  I don't know if anyone can remember but way back in the day the Reaper had different rules.  They came out in a White Dwarf a long long time ago.  I can't find anyone that knows what they were and GW doesn't seem willing to help me at all.  Does anyone remember what they were?  I think all auto cannons are in need of tweaking anyhow.  Does it make sense that the small twin linked reaper has the same strength and ap of the much larger autocannon on the predator?   Does it make sense that the predator doesn't come with twin linked autocannons?  I don't see why it's strength 7 and only ap 4.  I would say ap 3 at least!  I guess I have always been a bit miffed that my one unit with heavy weapons still can't take down marines.  It just seems that since the Chaos Terminators are limited in their weapon selection, the reaper should have some special rule or benefit. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

We should just do what GW does when something sucks and they want to make it better - give it Rending.

Seems to work everywhere else, so why not the Reaper AC?

BYE


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

And now a serious responce:

In our rules we have what's called 'High Impact'. It's basically for weapons that are very powerful, but we cannot justify them being AP3 completely.

So, Assault Cannons, Reaper ACs, Autocannons, Mortars, Heavy Mortars, Inferno Cannons etc.

Basically it's a -1 Save Mod, so a Marine saves on a 4+ vs an AC shot or an Inferno Cannon shot.

Works quite well.

BYE


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut






Yes it makes sense that a 'small' reaper autocannon has the same S than a 'Big' one...because all weapons do....vehicle weapons are just bigger. Making it Ap 3 (at least!!!)? why not make it assault 2, twin linked,S10, Ap 1, ordenance blast,pinning,melta weapon.........?????
you want ap 3? get a missle launcher...
The current "reaper autocannon" is balanced enough... its not a big vehicle killer and not a a lot of dakka..but a little bit of both...good for small vehicles and big tough units with low save....

The Chaos terminators are not limited anymore compared to the space marine terminator. for 5 points you can give every terminator a combi plasmagun. I would also rather have two assault cannons but the chaos terminators are much cheaper now and got nice icons....
   
Made in ca
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers






Well I kind of moved near Toronto, actually.

The problem with the Reaper is that it is 1 per 5 when it should be 1 per 3.

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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




you want ap 3? get a missle launcher...
DeathGuard can't field missle launchers. And all I was thinking is that if a heavy bolter which is not the main gun on any vehicle that I can think of is strength 5 ap 4. So why is the main (although basic) armorment for one of the most widly fielded tanks atr 7 ap 4? As for the reaper, i can't see why a terminator who's armor was built so that he could move and fire heavy weapons, not even have acess to a "heavy weapon" that can pierce regular power armor. I also agree that it should have stayed at 1 per 3 instead of 1 per 5
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Deathguard??? Deathguard don't exist any more. There's a Plague Marine unit choice, but there ain't no Death Guard army.

You can now take Havocs with the MoN and give 'em heavy weapons.

BYE

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I see that they are dead. This new codex gives me a lot to complain about but it should also be interesting. 2 dreds and my 10 terminators with my heavy support?? That sounds like fun! I'll have to look for another $5 dred and $10 predator! I am angry that I can no longer feild a deathguard army, I am positive they wont get rid of blood angels etc. I am offended by the loss of specific demons! How can they justify getting rid of Plague Bearers, Nurglings, and the best of all, Great Unclean One!!??? Modify their points cost and abilities sure, get rid of them? WTF! Ok this has nothing to do with Reapers.. I still think an auto cannon should have an ap of 3. It can't quite punch terminator armor but even tough marine armor isn't that tough.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





Los Angeles

Posted By shogun on 10/18/2007 11:47 PM
...good for small vehicles and big tough units with low save....

Its certainly true that auto cannons are good at killing small vehicles like land speeders, vypers, rhinos, and the like.

They are also good at killing big tough units with low save...like...ummm...yah....well...

One thing to keep in mind here is that there are no units in the game (at least as far as I can come up with) that have high toughness and low armor saves.  They simply don't exist.  If you have a toughness higher than 5 (so 6+) you have a 3+ armor save (or at worst a 4+ I save).  In either case, the armor save makes the auto cannon a generaly poor choice for killing high toughness units.  An unfortunate design of the game. 


**** Phoenix ****

Threads should be like skirts: long enough to cover what's important but short enough to keep it interesting. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




The reaper blows for it's points cost and usefullness. Good thing everyting else about Chaos Terminators friggin rock. 5 point Heavy Flamers are far more win than the reaper anyway.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The autocannon in game is a huge abstraction of a number of different calibre autocannon from the fluff. These range from small 20mm man portable Autocannon that might not even penetrate Carapace armour, to massive 120+mm heavy autocannons that can punch through Aegis suits like paper. Or the massive Autocannon on Naval fighters that fire hundreds of shells per second. In the tabletop, these are all s7 ap4 heavy 2s. Yah GW, yaw!
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




There are days when I long for the 2nd edition weapons stat layout. Range (short+long), to hit mod (short+long), strength, save modifier, wounds, armour penetration, sustained fire, blast size.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





Los Angeles

Yah but then again I also look back and realize that I don't have to deal with death trap transports, overwatch, hiding, and assault cannons that fire 3 sustained fire diece worth of crack missiles. All in all I'm very happy second edition is gone. Now if we could just find a little more middile ground between the "everything has its own special rules and a game takes 8 hours to play" of second edition and the "everything has the same bland standard rules and no options" of forth edition I think we would have a distinct winner. In either case, if given the choice between playing a game with 2nd edition rules or 4th edition rules, I'll take 4th every time.

**** Phoenix ****

Threads should be like skirts: long enough to cover what's important but short enough to keep it interesting. 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Posted By Phoenix on 10/31/2007 10:42 AM
Yah but then again I also look back and realize that I don't have to deal with death trap transports, overwatch, hiding, and assault cannons that fire 3 sustained fire diece worth of crack missiles. All in all I'm very happy second edition is gone. Now if we could just find a little more middile ground between the "everything has its own special rules and a game takes 8 hours to play" of second edition and the "everything has the same bland standard rules and no options" of forth edition I think we would have a distinct winner. In either case, if given the choice between playing a game with 2nd edition rules or 4th edition rules, I'll take 4th every time.

Or just play Necromunda

Yes, I agree that 3rd and 4th are far better for massed battles, but they lost something when simplifying things to make it possible. Hence the feeling of nostalgia.
   
 
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