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Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA


I also don't think it's helpful to push the idea that female hobbyists need to use female models in game. I just let me daughter choose whatever she wants. Yes, she does choose female models but she also chooses male models, monsters, aliens, robots, whatever else she wants. The same way I don't worry about my sons using male and female skins for their FortNite avatars, whatever they want is fine. I don't think the lack of female factions is an obstacle for female hobbyists to play Napoleonics.


I haven't seen anyone here pushing the idea that women need to use female sculpts in game. It's more that representation matters, so a more diverse number of sculpts being available is great. I'm also seeing GW recently presenting a far wider range of skintones in their painted minis. Again, representation matters, and it's great that the company is moving away from a sea of white faces. In a setting as wide-ranging as Warhammer 40,000(a hundred billion citizens in the Imperium, and all that) and Age of Sigmar(the Mortal Realms being practically endless), there absolutely should be a diverse range of both skintones and a bigger representation of female miniatures.

Nobody is pushing anyone to play with miniatures that they don't like - it's your army, play what you like - but at the same time, the option to have gender-diverse armies is good too. A few years ago I saw someone literally try to argue that "the females can play Tyranids or Sisters of Battle if they want to play 40K", and this was long before plastic Sisters of Battle were even an idea.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Jack Flask wrote:
 Argive wrote:
ohh you poor bastard..


And I literally just decided to edit it away, a moment before you posted too...


Yeah sorry bud.. I deleted but alas too late... :(

(For the record I think you made very very good points)


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Skink Chief with Poisoned Javelins




Xalapa, Veracruz, Mexico

And I didn't commented on 40K day 2:

Beast Snaggas: quite excited. I really wanted to get the box, even despite the number of repeated boyz. That being said, that same thing makes it okay if I miss it; the lower price will not be entirely justified me as it would have been for other armies, like Lumineth and SoB, because they will eventually get their SC!/CP, unlike Beast Snaggas, but again, I will fill that BS (go figure out...) Boyz will have less value than fully customizable versions.

That being said, I want to order enough suicide grot on squig missiles to equip each rokkit launcha I have, just as a cosmetic flavor.

I LOVE Zodgrod, and the detail of his hair: it is stapled on his skin!

Mega-armoured Warboss: Simply brilliant, and he reminds me a lot of DoW series and even a bit of one of Garrosh's skins in Heroes of the Storm. Hope he has at least another ranged weapon option. It'd be fantastic if he somehow had a Power Klaw and a Basha.

IG Upgrade sprue: torn apart here; why an upgrade instead of upgrading the whole kit? I really love the Dirty Harry head and many of those bare heads just scream "Catachan", but they could've just made a new kit with them instead of some pieces looking good and a lot of the model looking quite dated.

TS versus GK: Primaris GK when?

 zend wrote:

Any bets on what the Combat Patrol will include?


Btw, their SC! is out of stock online now...

Boyz, hopefully a Trukk, Grukk's Boss, who I expect to become generic HQ, and with him Nobz. So, pretty much what you'd expect. I'd be surprised if I see Warbikes/Trikes, or the soon to be released Mega-armoured Warboss: so far every single CP has had at least the newest kit for their faction (can't tell for sure for the next AdMech, but the Skorpius is still really recent), so I'd be on to with that because I have been waiting for a while for a propa' Evil Sunz/Kult of Speed army.
   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator







Jesus Christ, when did this forum get overrun by incels?

I mean, it's been obvious for awhile this forum is only staying afloat by neckbeard GW bashing, so I guess the mods are cool with rampant misogyny so long as its keeps the servers on.




You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





 Mr. Grey wrote:

Nobody is pushing anyone to play with miniatures that they don't like - it's your army, play what you like - but at the same time, the option to have gender-diverse armies is good too.


"Option" being the key word here. Being able to build up to 10 male or 10 female miniatures out of one kit would be ideal, but it's never going to happen.
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





 BertBert wrote:


Thirdly, this particular issue tends to be discussed with moral grandstanding, self-righteousness and outright unwillingness to consider the other side of the argument. I acknowledge that many people are happy with more female miniatures and I'm not saying that I am right or they are wrong – it's a matter of taste. Being branded as someone who hates women will make me very angry, though, which is why I tend to respond in kind whenever I'm confronted with this accusation. Now, take all of this and consider that it's mostly happening in online spaces where discussion tends to ignore normal conventions anyway, and it's suddenly very clear why discussions are often unneccessarily charged.

You shouldn't be irritated by it, the angriest and most fraught accusations invariably end up being from the most touch-starved looking guys that anyone's ever seen, it's almost as if wildly overblown accusations shot off on hair trigger are an attempt to compensate for something else.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






JWBS wrote:
 BertBert wrote:


Thirdly, this particular issue tends to be discussed with moral grandstanding, self-righteousness and outright unwillingness to consider the other side of the argument. I acknowledge that many people are happy with more female miniatures and I'm not saying that I am right or they are wrong – it's a matter of taste. Being branded as someone who hates women will make me very angry, though, which is why I tend to respond in kind whenever I'm confronted with this accusation. Now, take all of this and consider that it's mostly happening in online spaces where discussion tends to ignore normal conventions anyway, and it's suddenly very clear why discussions are often unneccessarily charged.

You shouldn't be irritated by it, the angriest and most fraught accusations invariably end up being from the most touch-starved looking guys that anyone's ever seen, it's almost as if wildly overblown accusations shot off on hair trigger are an attempt to compensate for something else.


I thinkt he more this discussion carries on the quicker this thread gets locked and killed. Do we want that ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/09 01:24:50


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut






Yes, the faster this abomination of a thread is exterminated, the sooner we can go back to safe subjects, like 10mm Horus Heresy, or the inevitable and imminent revival of Warmaster.
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Alas I predict angry recriminations eagerly hurled in all directions as a result either of those discussions also.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 Argive wrote:
 TheWaspinator wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 zend wrote:
Also why is there pushback on female Stormcast?

Oh, that's easy to answer. Sexism. There is no point pretending that it is anything else. There isn't even the fig leaf of 'muh lore' like with the Marines, as female Stormcast were established in the lore from the get go.


Pretty much. It's kind of hilarious to see people get all offended when they're called out on it.


I think its unconstructive to call people insults and what not, just because when they have some views contrary to their viewpoints.
Throwing around things like misogyny and sexism like its the name of tour favourite cereal kind of cheapens those things, and really does nothing to prevent actual Sexism and Mysoginy IMO. Food for thought guys..

I have no real horse in this race... Couldn't give two gaks about AOS model range...(apart from vanari dawn riders which make excellent shining spears conversions). I think the bird lady hairstyle looks very familiar though .



What else do you call someone who discriminates against someone or the inclusion of someone on the basis of sex or gender, specifically against women? Thats literally the definition of sexism and misogyny.

Dread Master wrote:


Easy, keyboard crusader. We have all received the signal of your virtue. Now go paint some toy soldiers and cool off.


Ah, the old virtue signaling chestnut, the hallmark of someone who is intellectually bereft of the ability to actually discuss the topic of hand and too morally and emotionally immature to comprehend that people aren't defending inclusion to "signal" anything, but because they legitimately believe that its a cause worth defending.

Out of interest do people genuinely think there will be a new facon? Or they will bundle the various vampire things as the oponents in the box?

Kind of hope blood knights will be available at a discount..


Soulblight had a new faction (Nighthaunt), so yeah I think theres a good possibility of it. Swamp vampires are a possibility, but with the new edition being framed around Ghur and with their statements to the effect that the forces of Destruction are taking new prominence, I very much doubt it would be Vamps.

I'm sure Blood Knights will make their way into a Start Collecting box (or whatever the AoS3.0 version of the 40k Combat Patrol ends up being called), there aren't many options for Soulblight that would make sense in a set like that (then again... the Death Guard box is evidence of how silly these boxes could be). In any case, it seems quite a few AoS factions have received a 2-player battle box within around 6 months of release (as was the case with Feast of Bones which actually came out before Ossiarch Bonereapers proper did, and Gloomspite Gitz in Looncurse).

(expecting a new varghalf to be part of the vampire release to replace the flesheaters one)


They stated that they have already revealed the entirety of the new releases for Soulblight Gravelords - if a new Varghulf is coming as part of Soulblight we're going to be waiting quite some time for it.

I hope that the lore and perhaps a new faction in Destruction (not necessarily centaur creatures) will start to diversify them.


I'm still hoping/wishing Kurnothi end up as a destruction faction rather than an order faction, but I very much doubt thats the way it would go. Would be nice to see "anti" factions that buck trends and present narrative twists to the setting, like chaos duardin, or feral destruction beastmen that worship Kragnos, or Order undead (maybe veering a bit too far into Moorcock interpretations of Order/Law, but imagine an undead faction that was themed more around a stagnating bureaucracy of death, tasked by Nagash to maintain a tally of the bodies and souls claimed and ensure a proper balance or some gak, and to keep track of the punishments and afterlife assignments of the dead, etc. etc. They become so focused on doing a good job that they break ranks with Nagash because he isn't filing the proper paperwork and the Necroquake fethed everything up, etc. so they cast their lot in with Sigmar to restore order to the afterlife or something. Like, an army of grim reapers).

A few years ago I saw someone literally try to argue that "the females can play Tyranids or Sisters of Battle if they want to play 40K", and this was long before plastic Sisters of Battle were even an idea.


I've literally seen this exact argument pop up over and over again in 40k circles, sometimes with the addition of Necrons as well. I don't know who out there sits there and thinks to themselves that this is a reasonable argument or defense for a lack of female minis in GWs product range, but here we are. Whats astounding is that Aeldari, Ynnari, Drukhari, and Harlequins exist and have a decent mix of male/female minis (though still not quite enough to be an equitable and diverse distribution), yet they seem to be constantly overlooked by the people suggesting that Tyranids are somehow representative of women?

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

There are Chaos Duardin, just so y'know. It seems to be a minor footnote right now though. They're Archaon's version of Grugni, bringing him all the goodies for doom from what I remember. Based in Aqshy towards one of the lava seas.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






I get why people like warmaster.. But.. I just dont see it for TOW.
28mm Painters and hobbyist will probably not want to paint 15mm infantry. In the same vein GW wont be able to market them for their "hobby". yes this is entirely my point of view. I havent done a poll.

Someone accused me of "never seeing warmaster minatures" in person when i made this point before. I have.. And I would not willingly waste time trying to paint those personally. Its hard enough to get 28mm eldar guardians to look good. A blob of 15mm spearmen and any level of detail? No friggin way.

I'm sure warmster rules are available for free somewhere. Surely with advent of 3d printing somebody on this board has done this?

In this vein, out of interest,
has anyone done this ? Does anyone have examples of 15mm fantasy infantry that looks good they can share ?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran





 Argive wrote:
Does anyone have examples of 15mm fantasy infantry that looks good they can share ?


These are not mine, but they are nice examples of what can reasonably be achieved:

https://www.beastsofwar.com/news/khurasan-miniatures-new-15mm-heroic-romans/
http://www.coolminiornot.com/436879
https://modelbrush.com/sci-fi-in-15mm-from-khurasan-miniatures/

   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





One of the main problems when shifting scale is that new techniques must often be learned, this applies to moving up as well as down, which is one of the various reasons cited for the failure of =][= (544mm).
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 BertBert wrote:
 Argive wrote:
Does anyone have examples of 15mm fantasy infantry that looks good they can share ?


These are not mine, but they are nice examples of what can reasonably be achieved:

https://www.beastsofwar.com/news/khurasan-miniatures-new-15mm-heroic-romans/
http://www.coolminiornot.com/436879
https://modelbrush.com/sci-fi-in-15mm-from-khurasan-miniatures/



See, to me, even with professional looking paint jobs and much better skillset than what I, or most average painters could do/ willing to do, they just look really goofy.

I do like the heroic Romans. They look like they been eating that god ol spinach. Adorable.

But compare to Warlords Hail ceasar romans at not heroic 28mm (apparently they are more closer to 25mm) 1/56th scale they are much better looking romans..

I guess it boils down to a matter of prefernce.


But, how much of the appeal is driven by the rules system vs the actual minatures? Would people who like warmaster be content with 28mm scale but with warmaster rules.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in jp
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

Are you feeling tired? Frustrated? Worn down?

Sick of seeing sexless adult men get angry at the prospect of an equal ratio of tiny plastic women in a few box sets of little plastic toys for a game they *maybe* play?

Try the ignore button today!

The ignore button significantly reduces unwanted noise, vitriol, and dog whistling, by getting straight to the root of the cause, blocking out the grown-ass adults who have come to believe that their hobby is threatened by tiny toys having an entire box more gender equality before, and then being outraged when people say that maybe it's silly to be upset about that.

The ignore button. For all your internet pissbaby needs.

(side effects may include reduced blood pressure, violent diarrhea, heart attacks and death, being surrounded by white knights, an ability to actually enjoy threads in News and Rumors, fully painted armies in weeks and a sudden growth in penis size)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/09 02:40:00


Ongoing P&M shennanigans!
Warband of the Pilgrim Saint - Marines and SoB, My first ever project! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/664123.page
Assorted Inquisition stuff! I get wierd with conversions sometimes! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/743187.page
The Carpathian Tin Ghosts - Skitarii Rangers who don't want redemption - only to kill xenos. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/748211.page
Vaguely Coleridgian Eldar Friends https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/749595.page#9830499
Care for a snifter of mine-tonic, comrade? Genestealers await the coming of the Black Emperor https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757105.page
The Moorendar 3rd and the Proselytes of the Drain Fly - Nurgle 40k https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/770536.page
Haven't bought from GW since December 2019 - resist price hikes and unfair pricing outside of the UK  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




North Carolina

 Mr. Grey wrote:

I also don't think it's helpful to push the idea that female hobbyists need to use female models in game. I just let me daughter choose whatever she wants. Yes, she does choose female models but she also chooses male models, monsters, aliens, robots, whatever else she wants. The same way I don't worry about my sons using male and female skins for their FortNite avatars, whatever they want is fine. I don't think the lack of female factions is an obstacle for female hobbyists to play Napoleonics.


I haven't seen anyone here pushing the idea that women need to use female sculpts in game. It's more that representation matters, so a more diverse number of sculpts being available is great. I'm also seeing GW recently presenting a far wider range of skintones in their painted minis. Again, representation matters, and it's great that the company is moving away from a sea of white faces. In a setting as wide-ranging as Warhammer 40,000(a hundred billion citizens in the Imperium, and all that) and Age of Sigmar(the Mortal Realms being practically endless), there absolutely should be a diverse range of both skintones and a bigger representation of female miniatures.

Nobody is pushing anyone to play with miniatures that they don't like - it's your army, play what you like - but at the same time, the option to have gender-diverse armies is good too. A few years ago I saw someone literally try to argue that "the females can play Tyranids or Sisters of Battle if they want to play 40K", and this was long before plastic Sisters of Battle were even an idea.


I whole heartedly agree that more options are always better than less options. I’m a firm believer in hobbying without gatekeeping, that there really isn’t a wrong way to hobby because it’s a personal hobby. A person’s army or collection should look however he/she wants them to look and I’m happy to get a game in with anyone playing anything.

It’s great to have options to represent more diverse armies I just push back against the limiting mindset that there has to be a direct representation to be appealing. A female hobbyist can enjoy an all male dwarf faction as much as a male hobbyist can enjoy playing SOB in 40k. You don’t need to be an Anglo to enjoy playing the English Civil War or replaying the battle of Hastings. The greater the diversity and options in war gaming the better the hobby becomes but I don’t think believing that we need this army to appeal to those people is the best mindset to use to get there.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Seattle, WA USA

 posermcbogus wrote:
Are you feeling tired? Frustrated? Worn down?
Spoiler:

Sick of seeing sexless adult men get angry at the prospect of an equal ratio of tiny plastic women in a few box sets of little plastic toys for a game they *maybe* play?

Try the ignore button today!

The ignore button significantly reduces unwanted noise, vitriol, and dog whistling, by getting straight to the root of the cause, blocking out the grown-ass adults who have come to believe that their hobby is threatened by tiny toys having an entire box more gender equality before, and then being outraged when people say that maybe it's silly to be upset about that.

The ignore button. For all you internet pissbaby needs.

(side effects may include reduced blood pressure, violent diarrhea, heart attacks and death, being surrounded by white knights, an ability to actually enjoy threads in News and Rumors, fully painted armies in weeks and a sudden growth in penis size)
Have an exalt for that one.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I have to say I feel this new stormcasts are less primaris marines and more Phase II clone troopers vs Phase I clone troopers. It is just a change of equipement, and it makes sense in a moving storyline like AoS has.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Glorious Nation of U.S.S.A!

 Argive wrote:


All I see is a sanguinary guard minus a jetpack.. Literally Cant see anything else.. Wish I could.


No nipples. They were the defining element of the Sanguinary Guard model according to the discussion thread at the time on dakka so therefore this is totally different. You're welcome.
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Starfarer wrote:
Jesus Christ, when did this forum get overrun by incels?

I mean, it's been obvious for awhile this forum is only staying afloat by neckbeard GW bashing, so I guess the mods are cool with rampant misogyny so long as its keeps the servers on.

No, the mods are not ok with rampant misogyny... but it's only 'rampant' in this thread if you ignore, like, most of the thread, including the responses to those 'rampant' posts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
I have to say I feel this new stormcasts are less primaris marines and more Phase II clone troopers vs Phase I clone troopers. It is just a change of equipement, and it makes sense in a moving storyline like AoS has.


Pretty much this. I was struggling to see a difference, other than the switch from leather strips hanging off the belt to a mail skirt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prestor Jon wrote:

I whole heartedly agree that more options are always better than less options. I’m a firm believer in hobbying without gatekeeping, that there really isn’t a wrong way to hobby because it’s a personal hobby. A person’s army or collection should look however he/she wants them to look and I’m happy to get a game in with anyone playing anything.

It’s great to have options to represent more diverse armies I just push back against the limiting mindset that there has to be a direct representation to be appealing. A female hobbyist can enjoy an all male dwarf faction as much as a male hobbyist can enjoy playing SOB in 40k. You don’t need to be an Anglo to enjoy playing the English Civil War or replaying the battle of Hastings. The greater the diversity and options in war gaming the better the hobby becomes but I don’t think believing that we need this army to appeal to those people is the best mindset to use to get there.

This is a really odd take, TBH.

Here's the thing - representation is ultimately just a way of making the game appealing to a wider audience. Sure, some women might be happy playing an all male faction. But they're not the people you're targeting by including more female models. You're aiming at the people who don't want to use an all male faction. Those who do can still do so, but you've added the potential to engage potential customers who otherwise simply wouldn't have been interested.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/09 03:48:15


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

It’s great to have options to represent more diverse armies I just push back against the limiting mindset that there has to be a direct representation to be appealing. A female hobbyist can enjoy an all male dwarf faction as much as a male hobbyist can enjoy playing SOB in 40k. You don’t need to be an Anglo to enjoy playing the English Civil War or replaying the battle of Hastings. The greater the diversity and options in war gaming the better the hobby becomes but I don’t think believing that we need this army to appeal to those people is the best mindset to use to get there.


I don't know if it's necessarily a 'limiting mindset'. I know several women who play orks, Eldar, and Tyranids and are perfectly happy playing those armies. At the same time, I've seen more than one comment on social media from women to the effect that they're glad that companies are starting to diversify their ranges a bit more and that the reason they started in the hobby was because of Sisters of Battle/Morathi/other faction with lots of female models. Women, surprisingly enough, are people just like anybody else. One may really love chaos space marines in all their heretic glory, while another wasn't sure about the hobby until she saw all the cool Sylvaneth sculpts(random examples here, but hopefully you get my point).

I'm a middle-aged white male, I don't need any extra representation in my wargames. All I have to do is throw a rock to find dozens of factions and minis that are catered specifically to me. Women and minorities don't have that luxury, so every little bit, every cool female sculpt, every mini with a non-white skintone makes me happy to see because that might just mean that one more person has a chance to get into this hobby because they saw some inspiration in a miniature.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

I mean do we even know what else this order / chamber is going to bring for stormcasts at all?
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





Prestor Jon wrote:

I also don't think it's helpful to push the idea that female hobbyists need to use female models in game. I just let me daughter choose whatever she wants. Yes, she does choose female models but she also chooses male models, monsters, aliens, robots, whatever else she wants. The same way I don't worry about my sons using male and female skins for their FortNite avatars, whatever they want is fine. I don't think the lack of female factions is an obstacle for female hobbyists to play Napoleonics.

Your statement here makes no sense, whatsoever.

If you think the mere inclusion/availability of female models is "pushing the idea that female models must be used" then the inclusion of male models would, necessarily, be "pushing the idea that male models must be used". There were multiple decades where Games Workshop released male:female models at probably 100:1.

Were you sounding the alarm that whole time, and telling your fellow hobbyists about your concern that GW was pushing the idea that male models must be used?
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Well sheet. If this thread doesn't ant to die on its own lets help it.

Genuine question.
people complain about lack of representation. People apploud increased representation. Some people also feel theres now too much representation to the point its not organic and is done purely to appease those demanding representation.

A post was deleted further up which put this really well. Much beter than what Im about to do.

So the question is as follows.

What is optimal representation & diversity?

As in what needs to happen in order for everybody to be happy with "representation"?

At what point are people going to be happy with representation? What does it actually mean? Is this the same thing as deiversity?

I haven't seen anyone able to articulate that.

Even had someone say I don't live in reality when I refuted the fact that wargaming is not at base level mysogynistic and sexist in agragate.

At what point are people going to be satified ? What is the end game here? Dooes this mean that every box that contains male and female race will need to be split 50/50 of which each ethnicity will need to be covered by stereotypes?

Like if they release a unit of 3 guys. Is one of them being a woman representation? Then somebody will ask: But why only one woman? Then someobdy else: Why not two? Then somebody else: Then why is there only one guy ? Then: why are they all women and no guys? And we go back full circle.

Is there concensus on optimal ?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/05/09 04:31:01


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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
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I'd say roughly equal numbers of men, women, gay, straight, black, and white representation in all things wherever possible. That covers the important demographics and also makes a lot of sense in most ways, and where it doesn't it's still desirable.
   
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JWBS wrote:
I'd say roughly equal numbers of men, women, gay, straight, black, and white representation in all things wherever possible. That covers the important demographics and also makes a lot of sense in most ways, and where it doesn't it's still desirable.


I'm not hearing any specific answers though.. "all things wherever possible and the most important demographics?"

Are you advocating quotas?
Important demographics for whom. You ? Me? Someone from Subsaharan Africa? Or someone in Japan?

What demographic do you base these "fair quotas on?" UK? USA? France? Eastern Europe? Russia? China? Japan? Ghana? The world?



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/05/09 04:38:56


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
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USA

JWBS wrote:
I'd say roughly equal numbers of men, women, gay, straight, black, and white representation in all things wherever possible. That covers the important demographics and also makes a lot of sense in most ways, and where it doesn't it's still desirable.


Agreed. It never hurts to have representation in games. These are fantasy games and people like to feel that they are included in the narrative regardless of how the real world is, and I am all for that. Doing this generally also expands properties outside of the traditional base of the game. Look at Dungeons and Dragons for example. The game made efforts to be more inclusive and now you have many more people playing it. Where I work a fair number of people play it, and probably 2/3rds of them are women. Growing up in 2nd/early 3rd editions I almost never saw anyone women anywhere near a D&D game, or even in hobby stores in general.

In short, having roughly equal representation in games means that more people will feel included and as such are able to approach and enjoy the hobby. In addition it means the game gets a larger player base, which is awesome for new and existing players.

I don’t really see why some people are so upset about it.

 
   
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You guys are not really answering the question that is being asked.

"diversity good" is not an answer on how you achieve and measure it within a product range.. Which is what's being asked. How do you achieve it in order to make everyone happy.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/09 04:41:02


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

You're not going to find a magic number at which everyone will be satisfied, because everyone has different ideas of what is required in order to feel represented.

But, ultimately, I don't think that's what the vast majority of people who feel unrepresented are asking for. They just want to feel included in a way that isn't a token effort.


 
   
 
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