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I've been a 40k player for more than a decade and the second army that I ever put together was a Dark Angels force. My army was originally conceived as half of a battle company of space marines. It's pretty codex astartes standard, 3 Tac Squads, 1 Devastator, 1 Assault, Scouts, a Dreadnaught, and a Command section. I like the way that the army looks, but I barely ever use the army since the DA rules have sucked so consistently. Having to buy Vet. Sarges on units that don't need them, and pay 20 points more for everything I've experimented with them as a Vanilla army, but to be effective, the army needs support units which is where the conundrum comes in.

I like the DA fluff, and the look of their specialist units, but it is so hard to make an effective DA army and the book just nickels and dimes you to death. Even their Deathwing/Veterans suck compared to regular marine units. Ravenwing is ok, but overpriced. I've figured a paint scheme I could lay over my DA's easily, but I wonder if they are going to bring vanilla marines into line with the Dark Angels? I want to invest in the specialists to make my army complete, but don't want to have inferior troops or spend all the time repainting an army that will eventually be more or less the same as Dark Angels

Is anyone else at a similar point? What have you done with your dark angels?

I love my Dark Angels - now more than ever. I've been playing them since I started playing 40K in late second edition. The colour scheme attracted me as much as anything else.

I've got pretty much a full company, minus a couple Tactical Squads. I like the combat squad rules and I have no problems being competitive in my local environment with them. The big problem is that Codex: SM is extraordinarily poorly balanced. Once that gets fixed it should address your complaints about pricing.

I'll be fielding my Dark Angels in a couple hours. They're still my preferred army with which to play.

I wonder if they are going to bring vanilla marines into line with the Dark Angels

Well we know what the say about opinions, but given what GW has done with Dark Angels, Blood Angels and now Chaos Marines, I think it's almost certain they will give regular Space Marines the same treatment when they redo the book. So the question is, how long will that be?I think there are already rumors of an SM revamp, so maybe two years?

If it were me, I'd keep the paint job as-is and field them as generic Marines for now. I can't imagine anyone would give you too much flak if you said, "I love the DA look, but the codex is too lame for me." Then when Codex SM gets redone, decide if you want to go back the DA or keep playing them as generic.

In all honesty if i were starting out with 40K and building a marine list now, knowing all that i know now, i would play salamaders
because the dragon/flamer thing appeals to me as does the FW siege dread.

That being said i simply already have to much cash tied up in my many dark angels models.

Don't get me wrong i love the fluff and imagery of the dark angels chapter, but my core armies used to be pure deathwing and pure ravenwing. both of which are slightly improved in some areas but are overall seriously less effective than they used to be, so much so i have sold off large portions of both my old "pure" lists because they were either illegal or unworkable now.

Since i do have so many models from the chapter i am making it work, it isn't easy, but it can be effective. you just have to play to our strengths
my most effective builds at 1,850 are mechanized.

The top winner for me is the
death/raven list


I also re-invented my pure deathwing

Which has so far only been out of the box for 2 games with a 50/50 win/loss performance so far.

Are those tripod thingies drop pods? How'd you make them?

yes
I made them both out of left over bits.

I found that tau ion cannons have the look of lander legs so i combined them with SM bike bits, dreadnaught bits and other tau bits on a flying base.
it surves its purpose of representing drop pods since i really can't afford to buy the FW ones right now. i suppose to you can also say they are 100% GW models since all the parts come from GW kits.

Unfortunately i ran out of bits and had to use an old rhino for a 3rd drop pod. but it does the job.

I have played Dark Angels since 2nd ed and the new codex (limited though it may be) is really the first time since 2nd ed I feel like I am playing Dark Angels. 3rd Ed really felt like Green Space Marines who like to shoot, now my army has character with cool but useful special rules. And it is competitive, maybe not Nidzilla or CheddarFalcon competitive, but most of my games are against my local group and I win more than I lose with them. I'm still learning how I want to play (mech vs. "doublewing") but I like the fact that I can't look at the codex and decide within 5 minutes what the best build is.

To the OP, SM will be brought in line with DA. It may be 2 years out, but they will be brought in line. If you like the DA background, fluff, etc, then use them as green Space Marines for now and come back to us in a couple years.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I plan on building a Ravenwing army after I finish my Blood Angels.

- G

I've seen a Dark Angel Army used with a lot of success that utilized a lot of Lascannon Razor Backs and Combat squads. It was essentially the Dark Angel version of the lasplas only with Razor Backs. It was a pretty nasty list.

Green Blow Fly wrote:I plan on building a Ravenwing army after I finish my Blood Angels.

- G

So you going bike heavy or speeder heavy, or a mix?

Don't think of it as paying for Vet Sarges, think of it as free Frag Grenades.

I used to paint DAs, I used the models for my own chapter (red & black scheme). I won't buy them again though. I don't like the way that marines are under-sized, and especially hate the new DA plastics. They're so un-crisp, the details are awful, no sharpness to them at all. Same with the new Chaos termies, and probably a load more of the new kits that I haven't examined properly yet.

I love those Drop Pods, btw. Not to mention the Dreads, and ... the entire paint job, really.

I am the opposite. I think the new DA stuff is the best we have ever had. The smaller details are very crisp and well defined. The only issue it the undercutting, which is solved easily with an exacto. We have so many bits and pieces to add to our army now for flavor that I find it hard to make models, as there is so much I want to add!

I don't mind the list that much either. It is underpowered vs the SM codex, and will be until it is redone. Not much we can do about that. Certain armies like eldar are ultra hard for any list to really defeat, and I have had a decent run in the battles I have fought against them. Without Falcons it can be a fun, and somewhat balanced fight depending on choices and mission (can never truly get away from that). In Apoc it solves a lot of the issues with the main list, allowing much more firepower. Have had some great battles against Eldar, but Falcons are still just amazingly tough.

It's still a fun and characterful list. You just have to realize what it can and can't do.

Indeed I've been playing with a DA list and can't decide what to play.

Entire reason for making a DA list? So I can have a army that won't be busted for 5 years, and see how well it holds up.

My traditional battle company-style DA have a tough time in the new rules. I finally sank the low of fielding them using vanilla rules for Baltimore. I do intend to give them some more tries as proper DA, particularly once I get some bikes and a squad of termies painted up.

I just took my DA's for a spin tonight and got my ass handed to me...... again.

It was painful.

My army list was

Company Master w/command squad(standard, apothecary, two flamers

Chaplain w/ Jump Pack, plasma pistol, melta

Dread w/Las/Missile

2 10 man Las/Plas squads in Rhinos

10 Man assault squad w/fist and 2 Plasma Pistols

10 Man Dev Squad w/ 4 Missiles

5 Man Dev squad w/2 Heavy Bolters

I went up against a player with a Land Radier filled with an extremely tooled out Deathwatch Kill Team and Librarian. That came to almost 1100pts!

For the rest of his army he had a pair of dreads, a 4 Missile Launcher 5 man Dev squad, and two tac squads with power weapons and plasma cannons.

Setting up for the fight, I knew that he had put almost all of his eggs in one basket and I wanted to make him pay for that. Unfortunately my dice were terrible all game. I kept rolling ones to wound with the Missile Lauchers, and I failed to kill one of his dreads despite hitting it with 4 Plasma shots, 4 Missile Launchers and then a bunch of krak grenades and a power fist. Didn't scratch it. My chaplain had three chances to put a melta bomb on the Land Raider. He needed a 4+ and despite his reroll couldnt roll a 4+ out of six dice. It was frustrating, and I was failing saves left and right.

I feel like this or something similar always happens when I use my Dark Angels. The main problem is really the combat squads. The 4 Bolter Lascannon squad typically only gets one shot at things and can be avoided or taken out pretty easily. The other "mobile" tac squad in a Rhino or Razorback needs to get close to do any real damage and then it is super vulnerable. I massed my army on one flank and still couldn't concentrate fire worth a damn.

I think some armor support would help or bikes, but I get more pissed at my army each time I use it, and after tonight's performance I think that I'm going to be starting a new chapter.

Edit: One big reason for the change is that I bought a linebreaker squadron tonight and want to paint it a black and metallic color so that I can magnetize the Chaos details and use the Vindicators as Black Legion or Loyalist Linebreakers in regular or Apocalpse games.

i hate DA as i play SW. But I do own all the DA codex from 2nd editio till this new one(know thy enemy) and to be honest atleast the true flavour has gone back into the DA. People just complain cos you cant really powergame with them now. boo hoo.

If you love DA fluff and imagery than stick with them no matter how crap they are. I for one am not scared of the new SW codex coming out, hell whatever they do with the wolves i will still play them. I refuse to switch over to a more winning army. SW have been my army since 2nd edition and will be so till the end.

I choose leave them. Space monks no thanks.

Is that the new Battletech plastic mech boxset I saw. If so can you take some photos of them.

To be honest, Dark Angels rules are better now relative to other armies than they were for most of 3rd edition. It's kinda of a mark of pride that DA players don't need overpowered traits, 6 Devastator Squads or every model in the army getting furious charge for free in order to win.