Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

1 - Assume a wierdboy is attached to a unit of 19 boys all mounted in an open topped battlewagon.

A - Can the wierd boy use his psychic powers?
B - If he gets an 'edbanger result how many orks does it effect? It can't hurt the battlewagon.
C - If he gets an 'er we go, can the boys teleport out of the wagon? What if it has an 'ard case and is closed top?

2 - Wierdboy vs. Psychic hood.

A - When do you make the contested die roll for the psychic hood? Is it made when you announce your using a psychic power or is it made after you roll to see which power you get?
B - Do you have to tell the other player which result you got before they decide to hood you or not?

I'm wondering because the Orks are the only codex right now that have a bad result on the psychic power choices in the form of 'edbanger'. Something just feels wrong if the SM player knows that you got 'edbanger and then choose to not use the hood. Against every other codex, 99.999999 percent of the time the hood would have been used the moment the SM player even thought you were going to use a psychic power.

Ooooh. Good questions.

1A - I'd say yes, but only if he rolls a power that acts as a shooting weapon (i.e. a result of 1-3) any other roll would produce a roll that has no effect on the game (as psychic powers beyond shooting attacks can't be used when embarked in vehicles).
1B - Models in a vehicle aren't on the table and therefore aren't affected by the 'eadbanger attack.
1C - Nope, see my answer for 1A.

2A - I'll have to check the exact wording of the psychic hood before I answer that question. Anyone have it handy?
2B - There isn't any rules about keeping rolls secret or making them in public but in general everytime you make a roll your opponent is allowed to inspect what you've rolled to make sure you aren't just making up the result so I would say absolutely yes your opponent would get to know what result you rolled.

I think that the psychic hood should come into effect before rolling to determine which power you use. The Codex says, "If the [psychic] test is failed, do not roll to determine which power he uses."

A player must declare if their Librarian will use a Psychic hood after the psychic test but before the power is used.

Wierd boys must make a test before determining what power they have, but clearly you must determine what power he has before it is used.

There fore there is nothing perventing a player from waiting to declare that he will use the hood untill after the effect is rolled.

yakface wrote:

1B - Models in a vehicle aren't on the table and therefore aren't affected by the 'eadbanger attack.

So then technically neither is the wierdboy who generated the 'edbanger effect. The 'edbanger power says that the blast template is centered on the wierdboy. If models in transports are not on the table, how can you center the template on him.

Just talking out loud to myself... but this does make for an interesting situation.

Imriel wrote:A player must declare if their Librarian will use a Psychic hood after the psychic test but before the power is used.

Wierd boys must make a test before determining what power they have, but clearly you must determine what power he has before it is used.

There fore there is nothing perventing a player from waiting to declare that he will use the hood untill after the effect is rolled.

I donno... here is the step breakdown as I understand it.

1 - Ork player says he is going to use a psychic power.
1a - as per your wording the psychic test is taken before the hood is used so, it also says in the Ork PDF that you take your psychic test before determining which power is used so....

2 - The psychic test is taken

.... The sticky part. Now all of the requirements for the use of a psychic hood have been met and all of the conditions that cause you to roll on the wierd boy psychic table have been met. So which is first?

A - Roll for the hood.
B - Roll for the power.

There is nothing that forces one to go before the other, however GW has ruled that you should take the least advantagious direction. In this case, I say the hood should get used first. Because its more advantagious for the hood to wait after the roll, and since the problem is generated by the hood, not what the wierdboy does, I feel that it is the hood that should take the least advantagious route.

yes, there's nothing to force one to go before the other, but the player using the hood gets to choose when to declare he is using the hood, with the only limitation being that he must do it after his opponet makes the test but before he uses the power. So the steps would be:

1- the ork player rolls his psychic test

2- the ork player rolls to determine what effect he gets

3-the ork player carries out the effect he rolled

Anytime after step 1 but before step 3, the ork player's opponent can declare he is using the any psychic hood they might have, nothing forces him to even choose whether or not he will use the hood before step 2.

Jayden63 wrote:

So then technically neither is the wierdboy who generated the 'edbanger effect. The 'edbanger power says that the blast template is centered on the wierdboy. If models in transports are not on the table, how can you center the template on him.

Just talking out loud to myself... but this does make for an interesting situation.

Right, we're in agreement. By the RAW, a wierdboy in a vehicle who 'eadbangs effectively does no damage. It kind of balances out for the fact that most of his powers while in a vehicle won't be usable.

Jayden63 wrote:

I donno... here is the step breakdown as I understand it.

1 - Ork player says he is going to use a psychic power.
1a - as per your wording the psychic test is taken before the hood is used so, it also says in the Ork PDF that you take your psychic test before determining which power is used so....

2 - The psychic test is taken

.... The sticky part. Now all of the requirements for the use of a psychic hood have been met and all of the conditions that cause you to roll on the wierd boy psychic table have been met. So which is first?

A - Roll for the hood.
B - Roll for the power.

There is nothing that forces one to go before the other, however GW has ruled that you should take the least advantagious direction. In this case, I say the hood should get used first. Because its more advantagious for the hood to wait after the roll, and since the problem is generated by the hood, not what the wierdboy does, I feel that it is the hood that should take the least advantagious route.

But there doesn't appear to be anything ambiguous in this case just because the Ork player has to randomly roll for his power doesn't mean the opponent can't simply wait until after the power has been determined to decide whether or not they want to use their psychic hood. Doing so doesn't break any rules.

Okay I've looked at the psychic hood rule and there is absolutely no doubt that the Librarian can wait to see what power is rolled and then declare he is using the psyhood or not. The rule states:

"Declare that you'll use the psychic hood after an opponent has successfully made a Psychic test, but before they have used the power."


So if the Wierdboy passes his test, then rolls for his power and the SM player jumps in and declares he's going to use the psychic hood he's broken no rules: He has made his declaration after the psy test was made and before the power was used.

Will my hatred of the Psychic hood never end? Its the worst most abusive piece of wargear ever.

Jayden63 wrote:Will my hatred of the Psychic hood never end? Its the worst most abusive piece of wargear ever.

You'll get no argument from me there. I think it is ridiculously stupid. Why is not limited to once per phase like practically every other wargear item in the game?

But as long as the Holo-field exists the Psy Hood is a distant second in terms of most ridiculous rule.

yakface wrote:
Right, we're in agreement. By the RAW, a wierdboy in a vehicle who 'eadbangs effectively does no damage. It kind of balances out for the fact that most of his powers while in a vehicle won't be usable.

Does the weirdboy himself take the hit from 'eadbanging? (Or is the weirdboy not affected? I've not seen the PDF ...)

And if anything from 4.5th ed. I hope for some changes to the psychic power system / gear - not necessarily as extensive as fantasy's magic phase but some robustness wouldn't hurt, as psychic powers are gradually making a big comeback.

- Salvage

Another question, does mob size affect leadership for psychic tests? So that if you have 12 in a mob you would only fail on 2 or 12? Or does it always use unmodifiable natural leadership values?

The mob rules state that they affect Leadership, full-stop, and a Psychic Test is a type of Leadership Test. Cut and dried.

And a roll of snake-eyes doesn't (ordinarily) equate to a failure result. Nor does a roll of boxcars, for that matter; if your Ld is 12 or higher, you should still pass. The only question is whether Ld can go higher than 10 in the first place.

Boss_Salvage wrote:

Does the weirdboy himself take the hit from 'eadbanging? (Or is the weirdboy not affected? I've not seen the PDF ...)

And if anything from 4.5th ed. I hope for some changes to the psychic power system / gear - not necessarily as extensive as fantasy's magic phase but some robustness wouldn't hurt, as psychic powers are gradually making a big comeback.

- Salvage

The wierdboy normally places the blast over his own head on the roll of a '1' when checking to see what power he uses that turn. However since models embarked on vehicles can't be affected by anything, nothing would happen because of this.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:The mob rules state that they affect Leadership, full-stop, and a Psychic Test is a type of Leadership Test. Cut and dried.

And a roll of snake-eyes doesn't (ordinarily) equate to a failure result. Nor does a roll of boxcars, for that matter; if your Ld is 12 or higher, you should still pass. The only question is whether Ld can go higher than 10 in the first place.

That's not a question. The basic characteristic rules in the front of the rulebook (page 12) stipulate that the scale for characteristics goes from 0 to 10. That means there is no such thing as Ld higher than 10.