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im soon going to be adding a FW avatar of khaine to my eldar force, and my friend already has one for his army. we have been brainstorming ideas for stats and special rules and would like to run them past yall.

Avatar of Khaine

WS 10 BS 4 Str 8 T 7 IN 7 A 6 W 6 Ld 10 Sv. 2+/4+

Demon: for all intensive purposes, the avatar of khaine is a demon.

Avatar of Khaine: (see codex)

Monsterous Creature

fleet of foot: the avatar of khaione has fleet of foot

Molten body (see codex)

Molten Core: at the end of combat, all models (friend or foe) within 2 inches of the avatar take a wound on a 4+, models in base to base take a wound on 2+. normal saves apply. this is due to the near unbearable heat the avatar's molten body radiates.

God of War: The Avatar of Khaine is a physical manifestation of War in the eldar pantheon. His mastery in close combat is beyond compare. The Avatar of Khaine always hits in close combat on a 2+. this does not apply to vehicles but does apply to walkers with a WS.

Anger of Ages: Countless millenia of being trapped in his cold steel shell, the avatar's anger is undeniable. the avatar of khaine has the Furious Charge USR.

Wailing Doom: the wailing doom may take the form of a giant spear, sword or many bladed axe. it may be thrown in the shooting phase with the following stats:

range 12 str 8 AP 1 melta

Bloody Swathe: while in close combat the avatar of khaine may elect to substitute his normal amount of attacks with a special "bloody swathe" attack instead. if the bloody swathe attack is used, the avatar of khaine makes no attacks, instead, all models in base to base contact with the avatar take a wound automatically. this wound ignores armor save but not inv. saves. walkers with a weapon skill in BTB with the avatar while he is using the bloody swathe take an auto glancing hit.

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we have ironed out these rules for about 2 weeks, and our gaming group has lent a great deal of help making him powerful but not CRAZY. we had him at one pint with better stats and FNP, but toned down his stats. he had a 3+ inv for a while, but after some playtests, that was to powerful.

the bloody swathe effect works very well, as does the avatar hitting on 2+, which all the grouop agrees he should. sadly the melta sword efect was never used, as the avatar was always fleeting. we thought about dropping the fleet and giving him a 12 inch assault move, upping his points.

we are currently running him at 600 points, and im looking for input on point cost mostly, as the rules we have are pretty solid, we want to keep them where they are at. so i ask you, the Dakka Dakka community to help calculate a decent (rounded, nothing lame like 457 or 834) point cost for the eldar god of war.

thanks

dave

May I ask why this Avatar is more powerful than the one in the codex? Your reasoning would make a big difference to the sort of rules it would have.

well, our reasoning is becuase the FW greater demons have different stats. so we thought it would be cool if the FW avatar had different stats as well. were just trying to get a good point cost. were just a bunch of casual gamers that would like to get a good solid point cost on this.

Oh, so it's really just a reimagining of the Avatar, not so much a special Avatar? Okay, cool.

600 seems a bit underpriced to me. If you compare him directly to, say, Angrath, it seems okay, but you have to consider that this guy can get Fortuned! I would price him at 650-700 and drop a few needless things (his 2+ can be a 3+, and I don't think he needs Furious Charge--I see the Avatar more as striding purposefully into battle like in DoW rather than rushing in headlong).

On that note, I can't really imagine the Avatar Fleeting or having a cav charge range, fluff-wise I mean. Why not break with tradition a bit and simply modify hsi base move speed instead? He could have a 9" move and 9" charge, representing his longer stride. That would be novel and more in keeping with the flavour of the model.

Oh, and I don't see a reason for his BS to be any lower than the standard Avatar. It's a bit sad, really. Bump it back up!

thanks for the input.

i really feel that the avatar should hit on 2+, you know how annoying it is to rush into combat and roll 1,2,2,4,5 on attacks? just doesnt seem right.

furious charge was a last minute thing, he origianally had str 9, but we figured we would tone that down and give him the USR. i mean goof war on the charge has to be pretty furious.

im up in the air about changing the movement rate. we all agree he needs SOMETHING besides the normal 6/6, but what, im not sure.

so would you say 700 points would be fair for our current write up?

Come to think of it, if Kharn can hit on 2+, then the Avatar should too. Okay.

700 seems like an okay ballpark figure to me for what you have now.

awesome, ill run it past the fellas.

imo

Definately needs BS5.

T8 wouldn't be unreasonable. 3++ saves ARE unreasonable, as you mentioned especially with fortune available.

I like fleet, gargatuan creatures get fleet in Apoc, I don't see why a massive Avatar can't get it too.

Wailing doom needs something like say a 3" blast template. You could even make it S10 melta.

And the #1 thing it needs is an inspiring rule. Minimum 18" fearlessness, or it could just make everything with LOS to it Fearless.

If you want to include Furious Charge it could make everything in 18" Fearless and give all Aspect Warrior Furious Charge. You could even call the Furious Charge rule, "The Court of the Young King" just to be cool.

I7 might be a bit high. I6 is good enough with extra attacks and fleet and exploding magma and everything else. The Avatar is more samurai than ninja.

As for points ... 700 to 750 sounds about right, with T8 and some kind of inspiring rule. Maybe 650 with T7. The Slaneshi demon is W6 like your Avatar but it is also T8. You have 2+ save, it ignores invulnerables, you explode Magma everywhere it casts spells of some kind. Don't underestimate that difference between T7 and T8 ask all those grumpy third ed Space Marine players ('You can shoot a Dreadnaught in the back!') who had to face Wraithlords. XD

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Come to think of it, if Kharn can hit on 2+, then the Avatar should too.

The avatars just a chunk of kharn, so it would make sense

I wrote rules for the Avatar in Apoc, which you can find here: http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php/topic,89867.0.html
I made him a GC, and gave him several more attacks. He also has a better Wailing Doom, and inspiring is better. The cost is 740 points. He doen't have your bloody swathe, but he can stomp, which is similar.
Cam

Tonytiger89 wrote:

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Come to think of it, if Kharn can hit on 2+, then the Avatar should too.

The avatars just a chunk of kharn, so it would make sense

Huh? Kharn (the Betrayer) is not equal to Kaine (sp.) the molten eldar craftworld god thingy


@OP, regarding movement, what if this avatar moved like a beast. 6" move with a 12" Assault. I imagine the Avatar striding slowly and then seeing his target and picking up his pace, bounding forward. Just my two cents.

I try the same thing last year. I also worked on a fluff explanation for the two different types of avatars. My rules had the avatar as gargantuan instead of monstrous and only for apocalypse battles.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/215948.page

Tonytiger89 wrote:

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Come to think of it, if Kharn can hit on 2+, then the Avatar should too.

The avatars just a chunk of kharn, so it would make sense