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Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




The Hammer

...may they be fired such that their zone of effect strikes enemy units locked in melee?

When soldiers think, it's called routing. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I need to consult with my local CD player to be certain,

but I am pretty sure the answer is no. If they could fire into a close combat, they would have special rules specifically allowing that, like Skaven. I am not aware of any special rules for blunderbusses that would let them fire into a close combat.

He's got a mind like a steel trap. By which I mean it can only hold one idea at a time;
it latches on to the first idea to come along, good or bad; and it takes strenuous effort with a crowbar to make it let go.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Los Angeles

I concur with Fellblade.

If units are prevented from shooting into close combat, CD's definitely need a rule that supersedes that, stating that they can.

"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




The Hammer

So if there is a melee involving friendly troops inside the 12" x frontage fire zone of the blunderbusses, they may not fire?

When soldiers think, it's called routing. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Los Angeles, CA

I would say that if they are firing at one unit and happen to hit another unit they count as hitting both. Kind of like firing stone throwers near combat and accidentally hitting them. They hit whoever is in the zone of death.

Would have to check the stone thrower rules to see if they are allowed to partially cover combat given they have an otherwise legal target they are shooting at.

However, I see this as more of a loophole that is being abused and would say it shouldnt be so.

Call me The Master of Strategy

Warhammer
Army Strategy
Unit Strategy 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




The Hammer

Okay thanks. Just re-reading the RH supplement I got in some old WD - could just envision them getting Unseer Lurkered into a 90 degree angle at two or three blocks of enemy infantry tied up with expendable Hobgoblins...

When soldiers think, it's called routing. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






The stone thrower is a bad example. First, you cannot target a unit in close combat with a stone thrower; but the template might scatter in such a way as to hit one or more units that are in CC. In that case, you roll for each model under the template- and the one under the hole is hit automatically- regardless of whose side they are on. That is the joy of the scatter die.

Blunderbusses cannot fire into close combat either, and they neither use a template nor do their shots scatter.

Now, they do have that 15" zone of effect, so I suppose it it possible to fire at a unit right in front of them, and have the shots affect a unit behind that one, which might be in close combat. In that case I'd be willing to allow hits against any models in the zone. I'd be equally happy to dice off for it. But I'd call shenanigans if they were to aim at a close combat, intentionally.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2007/12/18 01:23:29


He's got a mind like a steel trap. By which I mean it can only hold one idea at a time;
it latches on to the first idea to come along, good or bad; and it takes strenuous effort with a crowbar to make it let go.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Los Angeles, CA

Thats what I meant, if they shoot a valid unit and manage to hit combat too then it is probably a valid shot.

Just shooting the template into combat is completely wrong.
O, and they are a template shot and would follow the template rules about hitting models (15 in deep, wide as the unit template).

I would probably call shenanigans in both cases.

Call me The Master of Strategy

Warhammer
Army Strategy
Unit Strategy 
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





East Bay, CA

I think i read a FAQ saying specifically that Chaos Dwarf blunderbusses (blunderbi?) cannot fire at a unit in close combat (claiming specifically that only skaven can fire into close combat)

In the fight between you and the world, back the world.
-Frank Zappa
2k+
1850 8/4/3


 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Houston, TX

Normally, a ranged attack may not fire on models or units engaged in CC. Templates are a bit different and have special rules. However, the BB is not a template and so may not shoot models in CC as it has no provision allowing it to override the general shooting restrictions. So, you would look at any units in the zone and then target models not in CC, hitting them with shots. Unless the BB has a rule negating the need for LOS, the shooter would additionally need to see any valid targets.

-James
 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




The Hammer

...but any "backwash" (spare "area of effect") from fire at the first target would affect anybody else within it, regardless of validity as a target? So say some blunderbusses are facing a screened unit and shoot the screen - anybody from the unit inside the extra area of effect protruding behind the screen is affected by the blunderbusses. Or say an Empire regiment is fighting some Chaos Dwarves and has an unengaged detachment at a ninety degree angle to its left flank. A unit of blunderbusses on the CD right flank targets the detachment. Some of the engaged CD melee unit and main Empire regiment are caught in the area of effect, and are affected by the blunderbusses. (am I getting the right idea here?)

When soldiers think, it's called routing. 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Houston, TX

After looking through the pdf, it appears that they completely ignore combat and LOS restrictions:

"Any model within this is a potential target and hit on a 4+. The only exceptions are models behind extremely substantial cover such as a hill or a building."

Now, it would seem that they need an initial valid target (since it doesn't say they don't) but after that the 'fire zone' kicks in. Since special rules trump general and the "only exceptions" are laid out, every body else gets hit on a 4+. Even in combat!

Absent an errata disguised as an FAQ, that is some solid, albeit short ranged, shooting.

-James
 
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





East Bay, CA

Found, it in the Ravening Hordes Errata 3:

Q: Can you fire Chaos Dearf Blunderbusses when there is a friendly unit in combat with the enemey in the Zone of Fire?

A:No, Only Skaven can fire when there is a chance of hitting their own units.

In the fight between you and the world, back the world.
-Frank Zappa
2k+
1850 8/4/3


 
   
 
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