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Crew Shaken = Vehicle can move, but all firing is done at -1 Ballistic Skill. Ordinance Scatters 2D6 pick the highest.
Skimmers no longer count as destroyed on an immobilized result, they simply land. Eldar get a new ability for Vectored Engines in a FAQ or something.
Skimmers Moving Fast = Hull Down = 4+ Penetrating Hits downgraded to Glancing
Ordinance Hits give +1 to the damage roll, regardless of glancing or penetrating
AP1 stays the same, ignores Hull Down/SMF
CC Attacks ignore Hull Down/SMF


Glancing Damage Table:
1 - No Effect
2 - Crew Shaken
3 - Crew Stunned
4 - Immobilized
5 - Weapon Destroyed
6 - Vehicle Destroyed

Penetrating Damage Table:
1 - Crew Shaken
2 - Crew Stunned
3 - Immobilized
4 - Weapon Destroyed
5 - Vehicle Destroyed
6 - Vehicle Explodes

Thoughts?

I would not have CC ignore SMF personally.

I see it such that if you need 6's to hit, and then manage to Glance/Pen, you've gotten through the thing's ability to Move fast enough to protect itself from damage. Much like if you're punching a tank and connect enough to do damage, then no amount of "hull down" is saving the tank.

I like your overall thoughts. I really think that if the rumors are right and skimmers no longer always get only glances when moving fast if they don't change it such that skimmers no longer crash then lots of people are either going to quit the hobby or ignore the new edition of the rules.

My only other thought is, I really don't like your switching immob and weapon destroyed back to their old positions. For armies that deploy out of cheap vehicles that's a step backward. For poor armies like DE losing their SMF and making it (even slightly) easier to stop their assault in it's tracks is gonna be a serious step back in effectiveness.

Dr Phibes wrote:
My only other thought is, I really don't like your switching immob and weapon destroyed back to their old positions. For armies that deploy out of cheap vehicles that's a step backward. For poor armies like DE losing their SMF and making it (even slightly) easier to stop their assault in it's tracks is gonna be a serious step back in effectiveness.

As someone who spent a lot of time as a KoS player in 4th ed before the new Codex, and as someone who's played against enough DE Raider armies to know how they run, I really don't see the problem.

You literally have the same odds of survival with the open topped vehicle. Current rules for say DE and Orks and glancing hits:

1) Assault Still Good
2) Assault Stopped if target is over 14" away
3) Assault Still Good
4) Assault Stopped, Vehicle Dead
5) Assault Stopped, Vehicle Dead
6) Assault Stopped, Vehicle Dead

Under the proposed rules I've got you get:

1) Assault Still Good
2) Assault Stopped if target is over 14" away
3) Assault Stopped if target is over 14" away
4) Assault Still Good
5) Assault Stopped, Vehicle Dead
6) Assault Stopped, Vehicle Dead

So with my new rules in the glancing table you're still looking at the assault being stopped 2/3 of the time just like now, and with the caveat that now two results still allow the troops to try and get out and do something.

And lets face it, if your troops are in a fragile fast vehicle, and it's actually being shot before the cargo is out, you've made a mistake and they're dead anyway.

Penetrating Hits also are far more forgiving, and as far as allowing skimmers to be penetrated, I feel that's going to happen no matter what and probably should since SMF just makes them always much better than normal tanks. What I'm hoping for is a balance between the two types of vehicles while at the same time making all tanks much better.

I think you are weakening medium skimmers too much. IMO it looks like you balanced the new skimmer rules around holo field skimmers, and it makes wave serpents even more pathetic then they are now.

I would like to see some new rules that lets me use my falcons without all the harping and make my waveserpents a little stronger or atleast not at all weaker to balance it out.

if you nerf skimmers too bad, eldar will be in the garbage. IMO thats about how far uve gone.

I think it's a mistake to make immobilized a lower result than weapon destroyed. I realize that you're probably doing this to make holo-fields a little less powerful, but I don't think this is the right way to go about doing it. Just make holo-fields a re-roll like a venerable dreadnought or a 4+ save. I'm an Eldar player myself and feel that the holo-field is too good. We should protect our tanks with cover and tactics and use holo-fields as back-up protection.

Immobilization is a worse result than weapon destroyed: immobilizing a vehicle gives you half its victory points and reducing it to a non-scoring unit. When striking with an ordnance weapon or when striking an open-topped vehicle, you get +1 to your roll on the damage chart. A player who rolls an immobilization result and gets it reduced to a weapon destroyed result because he's using an ordnance weapon is going to be unhappy that the rules penalize him for using a superior weapon. The fact that a shot is ordnance should always increase its effectiveness.

I realize that you're not actually changing the probabilities, so in that regard the damage table is not any worse for ordnance shots than it would be with weapon destroyed and immobilization in the original order. However, for there to be cases where ordnance or shooting at an open-topped vehicle makes a damage result less severe seems inelegant and counterintuitive.

Aside from that, I think your proposal is fair. I agree that skimmers should be able to be penetrated in close combat. I don't really agree that AP1 shots should ignore hull down/smf, but there aren't enough AP1 weapons for it to be that big of a deal.