Switch Theme:

Kill Team 2021 news & rumours  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 Geifer wrote:
callidusx3 wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
 Flinty wrote:
I do t see it as a barrier to entry, it’s a barrier to completionism. To start the game you can buy the rule book amd whatever supplement you want and you can play the game.


Whatever you think, multiple people in this thread have indicated it is a barrier to entry, in that they won’t even start playing this game because of stupid decisions re: splitting rules up.

This KT edition is dead from the start for me too as the book in the box should just have been the actual rulebook.

So yes, it is a barrier to entry.


I agree with Flinty. I do not understand why people are finding so many reasons to hate on the new Kill Team. Like Bolt Action or Saga, one needs two items to play KT '21...

A. the Rulebook (separately available) and some printouts from WarCom that provide terrain rules found in the Chalnath book. And
B. the source of one's faction's rules (i.e. the Octarius book, Chalnath book or one of 3 White Dwarfs). If your faction's bespoke rules haven't seen a release yet, then one has to decide if one wants to use the Compendium as a stop-gap or just wait.

What other rules does one need? Two publications does not seem like a barrier to entry to me. It is not as convenient as one book (i.e. KT '18), I'll grant you, but it is not unduly burdensome.


What you're looking at is a trick to cut the price of a starter set without actually losing money.

By including cut down rules, GW doesn't offer the full game. If you want that, in addition to the 85€ starter set you buy the 37.50€ full rule book to get the complete game. Sure, you could just buy the rule book alone. And a box of models. And the markers and measuring tools. At which point you're paying 20€ more than the starter set costs, while not getting the second team and the scatter terrain. The reasonable and economically sound choice is to buy the starter set and rule book. So while you're being baited with an 85€ price tag, you end up paying 122.50€ instead and get a completely superfluous cut down rule book that has no reason for existing. Nothing about this is good for the customer.

It's also another entry in the newer starter sets that include cut down rules only and don't offer the full game experience. When 40k 8th ed came out, GW offered free core rules that I believe were also included in physical form in the two smaller starter sets. If memory serves, according to GW the core rules of 40k do not included terrain or army composition rules, which is of course preposterous for a tabletop wargame. Prior to the release of AoS in 2015 it was understood that if you buy a starter set, you get the full core rules of the game. It's an expectation based on decades-long practice. Since then we have seen ever more of these cut down rule books and as a customer you now have to pay close attention to what you're getting, and have to consider that a starter set doesn't actually get you properly started anymore. I'd consider that predatory as it deliberately sows confusion as to what you're buying and you as the customer are virtually forced to get your information from third parties because GW will adamantly state that incomplete rules are a valid way of playing their games even if that goes against any practical experience.


The funniest part is that you believe they'd be losing money if they included the full book in a 85€ starter set with no new sprues.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Albertorius wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
<snip> So while you're being baited with an 85€ price tag, you end up paying 122.50€ instead and get a completely superfluous cut down rule book that has no reason for existing. Nothing about this is good for the customer.

<snip>


The funniest part is that you believe they'd be losing money if they included the full book in a 85€ starter set with no new sprues.


Just to be clear, the rulebook you get is cut down but does contain all the rules (at least that's my understanding), it's cut down in the sense they've removed the fluff section, but all the rules are there.

It's the secondary book, the one that contains the army rules called "Recruit Edition" that is effectively a cut down version of the Octarius book, but lacks the complete rules for making an army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Two rulebooks + website content to play a game where you command a handful of models... and you're excusing that? OK. It's a choice I guess.


That's part of my issues with it. This is a simple game where you put 5 to 10 models on the table, we're not talking about a game where you're putting down 10's of models with infantry and tanks that will probably take you a full evening to play.

Yet already we have this unnecessarily confusing situation where you need a rulebook, and a book for your team, but no not the book that came in the box ("recruit edition"), and no not that other book ("compendium"), the Octarius one (coz, ya know, it's totally obvious that if you want to play "Death Korps of Krieg" you should buy a book called "Octarius").

As someone who doesn't religiously follow GW, I didn't even realise until the last couple of pages of this thread that there's also rules released in three White Dwarfs. So the rules for your team could exist in one of 7 different places... for a game that was only just released.

As I mentioned before, I don't really care whether the game needs 1 rulebook or 2 rulebooks, to me that's the strawman to how GW have poorly managed the rules to this game in a way that simultaneously nickle and dimes people while making it as confusing as possible.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/23 21:58:31


 
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






 Albertorius wrote:
Spoiler:
 Geifer wrote:
callidusx3 wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
 Flinty wrote:
I do t see it as a barrier to entry, it’s a barrier to completionism. To start the game you can buy the rule book amd whatever supplement you want and you can play the game.


Whatever you think, multiple people in this thread have indicated it is a barrier to entry, in that they won’t even start playing this game because of stupid decisions re: splitting rules up.

This KT edition is dead from the start for me too as the book in the box should just have been the actual rulebook.

So yes, it is a barrier to entry.


I agree with Flinty. I do not understand why people are finding so many reasons to hate on the new Kill Team. Like Bolt Action or Saga, one needs two items to play KT '21...

A. the Rulebook (separately available) and some printouts from WarCom that provide terrain rules found in the Chalnath book. And
B. the source of one's faction's rules (i.e. the Octarius book, Chalnath book or one of 3 White Dwarfs). If your faction's bespoke rules haven't seen a release yet, then one has to decide if one wants to use the Compendium as a stop-gap or just wait.

What other rules does one need? Two publications does not seem like a barrier to entry to me. It is not as convenient as one book (i.e. KT '18), I'll grant you, but it is not unduly burdensome.


What you're looking at is a trick to cut the price of a starter set without actually losing money.

By including cut down rules, GW doesn't offer the full game. If you want that, in addition to the 85€ starter set you buy the 37.50€ full rule book to get the complete game. Sure, you could just buy the rule book alone. And a box of models. And the markers and measuring tools. At which point you're paying 20€ more than the starter set costs, while not getting the second team and the scatter terrain. The reasonable and economically sound choice is to buy the starter set and rule book. So while you're being baited with an 85€ price tag, you end up paying 122.50€ instead and get a completely superfluous cut down rule book that has no reason for existing. Nothing about this is good for the customer.

It's also another entry in the newer starter sets that include cut down rules only and don't offer the full game experience. When 40k 8th ed came out, GW offered free core rules that I believe were also included in physical form in the two smaller starter sets. If memory serves, according to GW the core rules of 40k do not included terrain or army composition rules, which is of course preposterous for a tabletop wargame. Prior to the release of AoS in 2015 it was understood that if you buy a starter set, you get the full core rules of the game. It's an expectation based on decades-long practice. Since then we have seen ever more of these cut down rule books and as a customer you now have to pay close attention to what you're getting, and have to consider that a starter set doesn't actually get you properly started anymore. I'd consider that predatory as it deliberately sows confusion as to what you're buying and you as the customer are virtually forced to get your information from third parties because GW will adamantly state that incomplete rules are a valid way of playing their games even if that goes against any practical experience.


The funniest part is that you believe they'd be losing money if they included the full book in a 85€ starter set with no new sprues.


I don't believe that. To clarify, GW basically doesn't sell starter sets for under 100€ anymore. I think Blood Bowl is the only exception to this. But if they can make it appear like that, even though they know full well that for a satisfactory experience they'll sell a book in addition to the starter set, they get to have their seemingly cheap starter set and still get money in the usual price span of starter sets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
<snip> So while you're being baited with an 85€ price tag, you end up paying 122.50€ instead and get a completely superfluous cut down rule book that has no reason for existing. Nothing about this is good for the customer.

<snip>


The funniest part is that you believe they'd be losing money if they included the full book in a 85€ starter set with no new sprues.


Just to be clear, the rulebook you get is cut down but does contain all the rules (at least that's my understanding), it's cut down in the sense they've removed the fluff section, but all the rules are there.

It's the secondary book, the one that contains the army rules called "Recruit Edition" that is effectively a cut down version of the Octarius book, but lacks the complete rules for making an army.


"At least that's my understanding" is my big problem with this. I don't know. Like, I don't have a clue. I don't know what I'm buying. That's something that should really not be unclear.

There is confusion and I have every reason to believe it's not the actual game. GW is trying to shortchange me. I don't know how exactly, but I don't trust them because of that suspicion.

So I don't buy into it, and I don't bring friends into it. That's gakky business in my opinion. But apparently somebody at GW thought this was the way to go.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/23 22:30:12


Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

On reading the gnu review of the recruit edition book I actually dislike it a bit less. It’s effectively a book to teach you to play kill team, which is sort of fine. It takes you through some initial skirmishes and shows you how to play. It should have given you the proper lists but it does it’s own thing, which has some value.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





GW also actively sabotaged mordheim by splitting rules up into different publications in its efforts to drive sales (I guess?)

At least town cryer was a somewhat interesting idea, presented at a time when magazine subscriptions were still a relevant form of media.

It’s something that could possibly even work again, with legitimate effort put into design etc…

Instead the KT core rules book has a typo in the very first sentence on the lore section.

Still, KT has good game design elements and is our most popular skirmish game and between BattleScribe and a few other plays it’s not a huge headache to rationalize the rule set. The fan mad site for creating datacards is good too!
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




This recruit box is fantastic for a recently released models. You get half of the rule but at least it appear to be the correct rule, and a bunch of scatter terrain, books and dice as freebie.

Unlike the Necromunda Hive War box, the models is old, the total saving cost is abysmal as you got nickel and dimes for book, cards, dice, and the completely worthless ZM wall for essentially only 2d game, and you get the new, made up gang list(aka wrong rule) slap on top.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/24 01:39:38


 
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

It is not a bad box, compared to other GW games
not on the level of Underworld or Warcry, but not bad

it is just compared to Skirmish game boxes in general were it gets worse
not having the full rules for the 2 teams inside is a big no, as well as those rulese mot being in the compendium

as a new player were you don't know yet which factions you like, how they play etc.
needing 2 books in addition to find out while other games have the full rules in the 2 player starter isn't the best way to sell to new players, but does not matter much for veterans who already know what they want

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut




Vigils expansion very briefly mentioned at the end of this article:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/24/abaddon-goes-despoiling-but-faces-an-army-of-the-faithful-in-vigilus-alone/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 19:38:23


 
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Sure. I think it was already guesstimated to drop during February..
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Is it confirmed that the Rogue Trader star striders and geller pox are coming back for Kill Team?

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

it would be good to see them back if they are

 
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Is it confirmed that the Rogue Trader star striders and geller pox are coming back for Kill Team?


No official confirmation AFAIK but GW reps were asked about it in some *con event, and they said something like "it would really be a shame not to reintroduce them to the game"
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Even if the models aren't currently available, it would be good for the rules to be.

I don't think I've looked at the sprues from my set recently - how mixed are the two forces across the sprues? Could they get individual releases, or would the Rogue Trader box need a reprint (or a M2O release of both forces)?

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




They don't mix, Starstrider are all on a single "normal sprue" while the gellerprox are on a sprue double the size of the "normal sprue"
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







OK, so they could - theoretically - get rereleased as Kill Team boxes if GW had the will. That's good to know.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

The next box is Corsairs vs CSM, as the rumours predicted. Someone on B&C pointed out that the link to the preview article from Facebook references corsairs vs CSM. Broken the link to illustrate.

https:// www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/28/lvo-2022-aeldari-corsairs-plunder-the-nachmund-gauntlet-in-kill-teams-next-expansion/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Article&utm_campaign=LVO+–+Kill+Team+corsairs+vs+CSM+box+tease,+Jan+28

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/29 12:39:48


 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 Dysartes wrote:
OK, so they could - theoretically - get rereleased as Kill Team boxes if GW had the will. That's good to know.


IIRC they already were, it was one of those blink and you miss it releases from 2 or 3 years ago.

 
   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran





 ImAGeek wrote:
The next box is Corsairs vs CSM, as the rumours predicted. Someone on B&C pointed out that the link to the preview article from Facebook references corsairs vs CSM. Broken the link to illustrate.

https:// www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/28/lvo-2022-aeldari-corsairs-plunder-the-nachmund-gauntlet-in-kill-teams-next-expansion/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Article&utm_campaign=LVO+–+Kill+Team+corsairs+vs+CSM+box+tease,+Jan+28


Here is the facebook post with the link to WarCom so everybody can look up the link themself

https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerOfficial/photos/a.235809753480677/1534840820244224/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/29 12:56:16


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Maybe it will be traitor guardsmen, in the same vein as the DKK set. Or cultist?
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





The Shire(s)

 GaroRobe wrote:
Maybe it will be traitor guardsmen, in the same vein as the DKK set. Or cultist?

I feel they would not use "CSM" if that was the case- that suggests power armour to me.

Red Corsairs would be a logical opponent- Chaos space pirates vs Eldar space pirates.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in ca
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




USA

Red Corsairs versus Eldar Corsairs would certainly be a cool box to me. Wonder if they will be a new kit for the CSM or an expansion sprue like the pathfinders (which, would probably be fine, the new CSM kit is pretty good). Ideally it would be a few marines and traitor guard/ lost and the damned - but I think that would be unlikely.

 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wanted the new Kommandos, left with the big starter priced at 115€. Sigh, I can't resist stickers with reduced prices.

But more Ork terrain to go with the go cart Ork buggy boxed game stuff can't hurt, right? And even though it's the English rulebook included, is this game fun for kids 8-11, of which at least wants to play me in Blitz Bowl?

Looking for a Skaven Doomwheel banner to repair my Nurgle knights.  
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





The Shire(s)

 Sabotage! wrote:
Red Corsairs versus Eldar Corsairs would certainly be a cool box to me. Wonder if they will be a new kit for the CSM or an expansion sprue like the pathfinders (which, would probably be fine, the new CSM kit is pretty good). Ideally it would be a few marines and traitor guard/ lost and the damned - but I think that would be unlikely.

A regular kit with an extra sprue added for KT options does seem to be the MO. The DKoK is a basic infantry squad, with a third sprue for the KT veterans parts. The Pathfinder kit likewise.

I would not be at all surprised to see one of the existing kits (maybe Chosen or the standard CSM) with an extra sprue of parts to make KT specialists.

I highly doubt there will be more than one unit type. This edition has only had releases based on a single box per side, to my knowledge.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Binabik15 wrote:
And even though it's the English rulebook included, is this game fun for kids 8-11, of which at least wants to play me in Blitz Bowl?


Well, if the child enjoys Blitz Bowl, perhaps the next step should be the Fireteam boardgame. If the kid likes and comprehends the game play here, then move on to Kill Team '21.

Henry R. 
   
Made in ca
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




USA

callidusx3 wrote:
 Binabik15 wrote:
And even though it's the English rulebook included, is this game fun for kids 8-11, of which at least wants to play me in Blitz Bowl?


Well, if the child enjoys Blitz Bowl, perhaps the next step should be the Fireteam boardgame. If the kid likes and comprehends the game play here, then move on to Kill Team '21.


I would agree. I love Blitz Bowl, but Kill Team is significantly more complicated. I think Fireteam would be a good test to see if the kids like it first.

 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Fireteam, huh. Thalia.de says it's not released, but I guess it'd make a decent Easter gift for the nephews.

And all those spare arms and heads from the Kommandos really cry out for some 3D printed bodies.

Looking for a Skaven Doomwheel banner to repair my Nurgle knights.  
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Well, that single minis leak from the new box sure caused quite a buzz! I hope we get the full loadown of the box tomorrow night.. been hot and bothered all weekend LOL
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Albertorius wrote:
Danny76 wrote:
Well GW still always get me for lovely models to sit and paint etc.


Well, I have a (...multiple >_> ) 3d printer and a growing list of Patreons and designers. "Lovely models to sit and paint etc." is not exactly something I'm in need of, as each month they send me dozens to choose from ^_^.

The interesting part of a GW game should be the GW game, I believe. After all, they sell the miniatures separately. And in this case, well, interesting as it might be... the way they have decided to go about it sours me away from ever actually trying it out.


Well feel free to send me a good load of STLs so I can have some nice ones too

But yeah overall I get what you mean, it’s not the same as the “olden days” for GW that’s for sure.
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Has there ever been such a cross over in releases between KT and 40K before in terms of theming? We have Eldritch Omens out in two weeks time and KT: Nachmund within the next 4 (if the quarterly release schedule is kept up).

Two large boxes of Eldar and Chaos at the same time seem like they would somewhat compete with each other. Particularly as the KT box comes out second. Being the 'smaller' game I can see those who have already paid out for a lot of new Eldar and/or Chaos to not be ready for another box just for a couple of units. I can see the Corsairs, who from what I understand are already somewhat niche in an Eldar army, being easy for many to say they will wait for the individual release. Harder to say for Chaos as we don't know what unit it will be.

I've never built any Eldar before so I'm excited for the Corsairs (who look great) but I'd assume in the minority in that I will get the box because it is a KT release rather than being a fan of either faction.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I guess they’re appealing to two different groups with the boxes, I don’t think they care if 40k players don’t buy the Kill Team box as long as they’ve bought the other one.

If they get that player to just buy the individual box that’ll still be a good chunk extra and save boxes for people going the KT route
   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: