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I wonder if anyone here can relate to this situation: http://www.cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20080206

So, what are some of the best examples of cheesy you've had people try to pull over on you, because you were unclear on a certain army's/units rules/faq? And at what point does it go from 'forgetfulness' ("No no, every Space Marine can upgrade their armor to Terminator armor, I read it somewhere" ), to cheesiness ("I'm pretty sure the Tau Jetpack special rule allows them to hit-and-run, and then assault again in the same phase" ), to blatant cheating ("Yeah, this unit can only be hit on 6s, they have a 1+ armor save, and for every save they make all your units within 18" take 2d6 wounds." )

Me? It was only after a heated battle with the Eldar, the first fight I'd had against the pointy eared Xenos, that I finally picked their codex up for the first time. Did you know that you can't give Titan Holo-Fields to every single Eldar Vehicle in the game? INTERESTING!

In my heyday of playing it would have been diffecult to pull one over on me rules wise but i would fairly frequently play people with questionable playstyles. As in "Hey there there guy, im pretty sure that me getting a drink doesn't mean extra movement phase for your dreadnoughts".

If someone got owned rules wise it was usually an honest mistake in my group, it was those damn outsiders that dont know their stuff.

Roll to hit Dreadnought

::Hit::

Roll to penetrate Dread

:enetrate::

Roll on Chart

::6::

Me: "He's gone. Let's roll to see the explosion radius"
Him: "No. You have to reroll that 6. I have a Venerable Dread."
Me: "I thought you said it was a Dread?"
Him: "I meant, 'in general," not specifically."
Me: "Hmmm. Okay. Can I see your sheet?"

::Looks at sheet::

He: "Says here that it's a regular Dread."
Him: "Yeah, but I'm using the Venerable model, so I get to use the Venerable rules."
Me: "No. That's not in the rules anywhere."
Him: "Well, that's how me & my little brother play it."
Me: "Does your little brother have any Venerable Dreads?"
Him: "No."

::Long Pause while I look him in the eye to see if he's kidding... he's not::

Me: "Right. So, the Dread's blown up. I'm gonna roll that explosion radius, now..."


Eric

I watched a guy argue with an opponent in an event game that all his ork nobs got something, I don't remember what. It wasn't in the codex, he said it was in the FAQ, so they looked up the FAQ and couldn't find anything about it, so he wanted to call the ruleboyz, etc. He argued for an hour about it, and wouldn't let it go. His opponent got so tired of this guy's crap that he just conceded the point. We all knew he was totally full of it, and a few people let him know point blank.

MagickalMemories wrote:::Long Pause while I look him in the eye to see if he's kidding... he's not::

Me: "Right. So, the Dread's blown up. I'm gonna roll that explosion radius, now..."


Eric

Thats pretty funny.

I do remember one now though, it was a guy i used to work w/ at the FLGS (which is scary he was this dumb). He was begging me for a game for the longest time but i never could stand to be in his presence for any amount of time, it was to the point where he would start talking to me and i would just walk away. Finally i decided i would just shut his ass up by murdering his army then he would maybe leave me alone.

So I was using my Death Guard which at that time was pretty nasty cause i had tempered the list at GT/RT's, he had Necrons. Short story shorter, i phased him out turn 3 but he had never heard of phase out and said i was making it up. After about 20 min of him arguing and whining about a rule thats clear as day in the codex he asked if i wanted to play again...

And thats the first time i killed a man.

We had a kid come in round about the time the last tyranid codex came out, bought in on the game, and started painting up models. He liked the bugs, they were popular and new, so went with that. The stories I heard about this one defied logic. A buddy of mine mentioned that he'd played this kid, and that he'd had to pack his stuff up and find another game. I queried. He said that the kid, in a 1500 point game, had hundreds of models put out there, and they were all maxed on morphs. ANYTHING you could take, this kid had taken. After being queried several time about his list, turns out that he "accidentally" thought that when you added a bio-morph or -weapon, you subtracted the points from the models base cost, as opposed to adding it. He was irritating people so much, that he was (I heard) eventually asked to learn the rules or not come back.

grizgrin wrote:We had a kid come in round about the time the last tyranid codex came out, bought in on the game, and started painting up models. He liked the bugs, they were popular and new, so went with that. The stories I heard about this one defied logic. A buddy of mine mentioned that he'd played this kid, and that he'd had to pack his stuff up and find another game. I queried. He said that the kid, in a 1500 point game, had hundreds of models put out there, and they were all maxed on morphs. ANYTHING you could take, this kid had taken. After being queried several time about his list, turns out that he "accidentally" thought that when you added a bio-morph or -weapon, you subtracted the points from the models base cost, as opposed to adding it. He was irritating people so much, that he was (I heard) eventually asked to learn the rules or not come back.

....

Wouldn't that effectively make Hormoguants totally free then? That... that defies even the most BASIC of logic...

"This is my 12 point Carnifex... and his 6 friends!"

Amazing!

I remember one cheese master I played. He always liked to play CC armys, and one army of his was Khorne. Using the old 3rd/4th edition codex, he had bloodletters as his troops choice.

Funny thing was, we were playing at an RTT which required we each have 1 troop choice on the field, everything else was in reserve. Well, he didn't HAVE troops, least not ones that were available on turn 1.

Looking back now, I probably could have broken him of his powergaming ways by just insisting he forfeit, but I decided to be a good sport. I ended up losing, and he placed 3rd.

I remember a guy who always got everything wrong about his army list. Well, except his conversions which were always amazing. But, he still usually lost.

He had an ork nob unit (3ed codex) - 10 strong. So, there's 200-some points to start. They all had 3+/5+ saves (hard armor + the +1sav wargear, plus cybork bodies), big choppas or power klaws (forget which), pistols with like all 3 upgrades (more dakka/the plasma one/the +1 str one), grenades, etc. Somehow, he added up this unit to be like 300 points. I wasn't even playing the game and went off on him a bit, "How did that not strike you as wrong? The unit starts at 200, and each guy has like 50 points of wargear!"

Another time, he showed up with his World Eaters (4ed CSM codex) who all had FNP (this time, I think he actually managed to pay the points for it and do math right). Someone pointed out it was Wargear, and models without access to the armory couldn't buy it. After about 20 minutes of arguement, and several other people saying, "no, no, can't do that," he finally re-did his army list.

I remember at a tourney, another player pulled on my orks that BA (3ed) always re-rolled hit/wound - whatever the dude with the grail did - and it was just on the charge.

This is why I hate when there are a long list of special rules and abilities (PP is really bad at this). I'll give people the benefit of the doubt once and 'trust' that they made a mistake/didn't understand the rules right/etc. and that it wasn't a deliberate mistake. But, I've lost track of how many times in a tournament, I've had the army codex out, "no, no, that's not how it works." "Yes it is." "No, read the rules, you don't get it unless you charge/are with 6"/wearing power armor/etc." When there are a handful of USRs, it's easy to know and understand them all.

And guys like him are why GW is simplifying the army lists, removing Wargear, etc. in the new Codices.

Amen to that.

A little OT, but I recall something along the same lines once, way back, when I was playing Halo2 online. I remember I was beating this kid (sounded 12 or so) and he finally said, something like "stop doing that, or I'll turn on the game genie".

Yeah, if you have to resort to cheating to win, you pretty much know you're a tool.

AlexCage: Yeah, he had more free gak on the board than stuff that he'd actually paid points for. Claimed dyslexia, but I don't understand how dyslexia adds up to that kind of thing. I think claiming dyslexia as an excuse for such an act is a slap to everyone whose had to live with actually having the condition, and they should all get together and smack him at one. We tried so hard in that shop with this guy, too. We have a big thing about wanting to "bring up" new gamers of any age. Anyone ready to pick up dice, really. We realize that good gaming opponents come in all shapes, sizes, ages, and demographics; however they are a thing to be cared for. Sounds really touchy-feely, but there's a great gaming scene at my local FLGS, and we intend to keep it that way, hence encouraging new blood. However, this kid defied even us. I dunno what his deal was.

I also used to tutor on the side ot make money, had this one kid I was basically babysitting to get his homework done. Had to quite because I found out that his parents, who were both engineers, were spending the same time period watching TV and basically just screwing off, while I was in there teaching him grade school math. It was quit, or go home every night feeling violated and praying that I would wake up dead having choked on my own vomit. ANYWAY, he used to hack into characters for online games for fun, used a hex editor. Would open up a character, and just toy around with different parts of mthe code until he figured out how to turn a freaking spit-ball class weapon into a BFG SunGun of Death, Doom, and Damnation. The people he played against would just get beligerent when he trashed them. I think it was mechwarrior, not sure.

edited because I lost the freaking plot.

Back to my FLGS, we had another guy who was amazing. Really passive, nice enough guy, but had GADFR (Gaming Associated Dissociation From Reality. made that up myself, can you tell?) so bad it was simply amazing. The Scatter Die incident was classic. I shot at something with a Leman Russ pie plate. I rolled a scatter die to determine scatter, and did not touch it afterwords b/c this guy was showing signs of mental gymnastics of the SPED variety. Said die pointed in a direction with it's nifty littl arrow, went a good distance as well. He said that it clearly scattered dead on top onto one of my units, which was about 100 degrees in another direction. It was not a small discrepancy here, it was about as obvious as a turd falling out of your forehead. I had to stop other people in the store from participatingin the debate, because they were getting so worked up that he was being so blatant. Yes, the die WAS pointing at one of HIS units. I gave it to him b/c it was a game and therefore of limited import, he was clearly delusional, and I wanted to see if I could take the game anyway, even with the handicap (it vaporized a rather expensive unit of mine under his "un-divine guidance", per say.) he induced. What got me was that he had the nerve to complain after the game that the other guys were chewing his kiester. I just decided to use him as a challenge opponent, in that if I could whup him to the point that he couldn't "mentally magic" his way out of it, he was whupped indeed. In actuallity, never played him again, I think he left the scene. Too bad, the guy could paint.

KiMonarrez: I can only hope kids like your lil genie get bored with the cheating and switch it around. Hopefully he was trying to wean himself off the damn thing. Sometimes good judgement really is only a direct result ofbad, to hack up a cliche.

We used to have a guy who played Dark Eldar and would leave the weapons off his ravagers and raiders so he could change them around magically. He also would reuse his power weapons on his archons by cycling back to them. What was really bad (and pissed us off) when you told him he already shot X or used X power weapon of doom he would thank you like he forgot. We ended up banning him from playing in tournies because he cheated so much. It was funny he cried and said it was not fair and he never cheats. Asshat.

Played against a kid with Chaos Terminators that had no arms. They harnessed the Warp for all it's worth, as weapons magically changed hands between termies round to round, always to his beenfit of course

It was a firendly game, so I let i slide, but I proclaimed loudly every round when I killed "the one with the Reaper autocannon". By the end of the game he must have had 5 Reaper Autocannons in that squad.

Those are called "Obliterators", adam.

Except you can only get units of up to 3.

Someone once tried to pull on my friend that Ork Powerklaws strike at initiative instead of going last because the 4th ed rule book stated powerfists go last but not powerklaws.

My friend called him out on it though.

There is guy who used to play occasionally in my group. He is a friend, but I found this aspect of his personality quite saddening: he liked to screw with his opponents in the metagame. He would look you straight in the eye and say "You can't do that", and pull some reference out of thin air, or he'd try some outrageous stunt like claiming nurglings regenerated. Just to see if he could get you to believe it. He didn't really care much whether he won or lost; for him, the game was more about the psychological contest between opponents than the tactics on the tabletop.

After a couple of years we all figured him out (it wasn't hard, he flat out boasted about being able to bluff some poor newbie into a crushing defeat) and started demanding that he back up whatever outrageous claim it was, in print. He stopped coming around after that.

I had a friend who did similar psychological trickeries. Whenever someone would move, shoot, or do about anything he'd say "Oh wow. You're going to do that!?" Or something similar. It would drag games out and he was never fun to play with. It's not really cheating, just annoying. He used to go around to other tables and give "advice" as well. Eventually our group just stopped playing with him.

When I was first starting, I had an opponent tell me his terminators with storm bolters got to shoot twice because their gun has two barrels.

Had someone tell me his guy with a Power Field (remember those? 2+ inv save) got to roll for it on two dice since he was wearing terminator armor. Do you know how hard it is to kill a guy who has to roll a 2 or better on 2 dice added together?

75% of the people in that store was cheaters and thieves, and the people who worked there didn't care. Geee, I wonder why they went out of business.

man, did most of us get hacked when we first started? I had a guy "teaching me 40k, hashed me first several games. Trying to teach me all kinds of cheating maneuvers (moving rhinos front to back, etc...). Then I started playing at another location, and learned just how much this ape had bent and broken rules just to get in wins on a noob. Well, fast forward a couple months, tourney comes up, and I'm facing him in a tourney. No draws here, straight up victory points FTW or FTL. I beat him by 13 points, and he wigged. I didn't happy dance, but maybe I shoulda.

The first time I played Tau the guy told me his markerlights were automatic hits. Needless to say, my tanks didn't last long. The sad part was that he wasn't trying to swindle me, he just didn't know.

We had a guy who used to play Chaos and would either play Slan or Khorne. Whenever he played Slan his lord would ALWAYS seem to roll the Siren minor ability when nobody was looking (cheating) and his Khorne Lord would be a Demon Prince with the Dreadblade so he ignored your armor saves and invulnerables (effin cheesy).

We also had a guy who would literally start crying in the middle of a game if you started killing his stuff and would go to other tables and act like he was going to smash your minis with his hand/book/minis case etc... Well, one time in a Fantasy tourny his 800 point lord was killed instantly by a doom diver. He proceeded to smash the other players minis in frustration... the other player proceeded to grab him by the back of his head and bounce his face off the table... He finally stopped coming.

Um.... wow.

It's people like that that give the rest of us "normal" geeks a really bad name. It's a fricken game of toy soldiers, fer cryin' out loud.

It's a game of toy soldiers to those of us who are well adjusted, have regular jobs, maybe even wives and kids. For some, it's their whole identity, and for that, I feel sorry for them. If you have to win to feel good about yourself, and have to cheat to win, I don't know how you feel good about yourself.

There was one kid a LGS I used to go to. He rarely played a game. Someone told me it was because he couldn't stand to lose, so if he didn't play but sat around playing mathhammer or theorymachine all day, it made him sound like the smartest guy there. But really, most of the time it was so obvious that it sounded like a politican was speaking (OT, I can't stand any politican who says stuff like, "Kids smoking is bad."). "Marines will beat stormtroopers in melee. Assault marines are better in melee than tactical marines. Hurr!"

And of course, then there was the guy in 2ed who had a SM Hero (I think it was a captain) who had terminator armor AND a jump pack. "Rules don't say you can't!" "Actually, the FAQ in WD says you can't." "That's just WD, that doesn't make it official or anything, and they can't expect you to have to buy their shoddy magazine for it. If everyone doesn't have it, it doesn't count."

So what happens if it's the other way around and you, being a sensible player who likes to download and print out FAQs so you can avoid arguments, comes up against a player who doesn't and accuses you of being a rules lawyer because you do?

That's what I can't stand. FAQs are made for a reason, and if you can't print out a couple of pages of ink but you can buy a $500 army, I...I really don't know what to say.

Can't think of any really out there rules that people have invented when they played me. For the most part if something doesn't sound right, I make them show it to me and that clears most things up.

As for odd players, I was once playing at a table that was large enough to accomidate 2 games as once. The game going on next to mine was between some kid (~15 years old or so) and "Bitter Devorced Man". While the game seemed to flow reasonably well, "Bitter Devorced Man" spent the whole game trying to warn the kid off marrage and informing him of all the horrible things women were going to do to him later in life. It got bad enough (and the kid was getting really uncomfortable with the situation) that I had to step in and get the guy to lay off.

I've had some interesting opponents over the years:

There was the DE player who measures front to back on all of her models. When you do this for the Raider move, the disembark, the fleet of foot, and the Wyth's 12" charge (they always seemed to get) then they go -

Move 12" + Raider Length 7" + Disembark 2" + Base 1" + Fleet d6" + Base 1" + Charge 12" + Base 1"

This yields a 46+d6" charge on turn 1, not much stopping that...

Then there was the Necron player who would constantly try to convince his opponents that Gauss and Rending were the same thing.

We also have the players of horde armies that will set up everry model spaced out 2" apart, and will only measure the front line, and magically when they charge you their entire unit is able to attack, even though the front and back were 9" apart before they charged.

One kid tryed to convince me that ihs chaplain cassius could deep strike. After arguing for a bit I got bored and let him deep strike him next to my zoanthrope, who simply warp blasted him to death. Then the kid proclaimed that cassius had an adamantine mantle AND a iron halo.

And you know what?

This kid wasn't even my opponent.

Oh yeah and the kid who tried to measure from the front to the back of his models. I accepted it for a while until he tried it with his land raider full of assault termys.

I'd hate to think what he's doing know with apocalypse and baneblades...