Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/02/08 16:42:02
Subject: Casual Tournament Chaos with Greater Daemon
|
 |
Been Around the Block
|
Playing in a store tournament this weekend. Wanted to see what everyone thinks of the infiltrating Chosen Daemon Bomb and how they think this list would do. The competition that I can think of will be horde orks, horde nids, Suit Tau, Lot's of Shots Eldar, lots of non-gunline Marines (I think BA, 2 DA, Space Wolves, Templars), Dual Lash, and mixed Guard.
Daemon Prince – 110
Mark of Nurgle – 20
Wings 20
Warptime 25 175 points
Daemon Prince – 110
Mark of Slaanesh – 5
Wings 20
Lash 20 155 points
Greater Daemon 100 points
10x Chosen 180
Mark of Khorne 30
2x Meltaguns 20
2x Power Weapons 30
Powerfist 25
Champ w/ normal weapons 10 295 points
10x CSM 150
Mark of Tzeentch 40
Lascannon 20
Plasma Gun 15
Champ w/ fist 40
Rhino w/ extra combi-bolter 40 305 points
5x CSM 75
Meltagun 10
Champ w/ fist 40
Rhino w/ extra combi-bolter 40 165 points
2x1 Obliterators 150 points
Predator 70
Twin-linked lascannon 35
Heavy Bolter Sponsons 30
Daemonic Possession 20 155 points
------------------------------------------------------------------
1500 points exactly
Any Suggestions?
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2008/02/08 22:01:25
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/02/08 19:04:02
Subject: Casual Tournament Chaos with Greater Daemon
|
 |
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
Well, three MCs in 1500 pts is a bit much. I'd drop one and take more Marines. The Pred also easily goes down. Replace it with 2 Obliterators.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/02/08 20:43:12
Subject: Re:Casual Tournament Chaos with Greater Daemon
|
 |
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
|
10x Chosen 180
Mark of Khorne 30
2x Meltaguns 20
2x Power Weapons 30
Powerfist 25
Champ w/ normal weapons 10 295 points
I understand WHY you didn't give the champ any weapons but, IMO, it was a mistake.
I'd have given him one of the power weapons. He has the better stat line for it, and a P-Weapon isn't a big deal to give up for a Greater Daemon. Plus, there's no guarantee you're even going to end up bringing him in via the chosen. You could end up needing him on a flank.
I like him MORE with a power fist... but I understand your desire NOT to do that.
Here's my big problem... you have 2 troop choices and one is only a 5-man strong unit.
You'll get dinged on composition, almost certainly.
You have 8 units at 1500 points. That averages 187.50 per unit.
Wow. Expensive.
You have 31 models in the force. That averages over 48 points a model.
For points savers, I'd drop the 10 man squads to 8.
I'd Drop Khorne on the chosen & make them undivided (I'd rather have the init reroll with such an elite force than an extra attack)... Even Slaanesh would be better, IMO, to get their attacks in faster.
I'd drop Tzeentch on the troop squad... I wouldn't give them an Icon... or would go undivided.
For the Pred, I'd drop DP and pick up Extra Armor & a dozer blade.
I can't tell you, off hand, how to spend the saved points. I don't have my codex handy... I'd probably use some to bolster that fragile 5-man squad, though.
Enough points & it might not be a bad idea to go Nurgle on the troop unit, over Tzeentch... a 5+ cover is only "eh" IMO at this level.
Eric
|
Black Fiend wrote: Okay all the ChapterHouse Nazis to the right!! All the GW apologists to the far left. LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE !!!
The Green Git wrote: I'd like to cross section them and see if they have TFG rings, but that's probably illegal.
Polonius wrote: You have to love when the most clearly biased person in the room is claiming to be objective.
Greebynog wrote:Us brits have a sense of fair play and propriety that you colonial savages can only dream of.
Stelek wrote: I know you're afraid. I want you to be. Because you should be. I've got the humiliation wagon all set up for you to take a ride back to suck city.
Quote: LunaHound--- Why do people hate unpainted models? I mean is it lacking the realism to what we fantasize the plastic soldier men to be?
I just can't stand it when people have fun the wrong way. - Chongara
I do believe that the GW "moneysheep" is a dying breed, despite their bleats to the contrary. - AesSedai
You are a thief and a predator of the wargaming community, and i'll be damned if anyone says differently ever again on my watch in these forums. -MajorTom11 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/02/08 22:00:51
Subject: Re:Casual Tournament Chaos with Greater Daemon
|
 |
Been Around the Block
|
I don't have any reference on composition scores as our store doesn't include anything of the sort in the score. I would like to know what why I would get dinged. There are more points in the troops of my army than in any other slot if that means anything.
I don't like offensive redundancy in squads, especially with chaos; though defensive redundancy is the best protection in this game. If I didn't want to run the greater deamon (a different list), I would probably be running a very varied set of troops.
I can't drop the CSM squad to 8 or I lose the lascannon, and at 10 men, Mark of Tzeentch becomes a 4 pt. upgrade for a model, which I think is easily worth it.
With mark of Khorne, the infiltrating chosen do 29 regular attacks, 8 power weapon attacks, and 4 fist attacks on the charge as well as 8 bolt pistol shots and 2 meltagun shots. If I would put the fist or power weapon on the champion, that would be one more attack in that bracket with no improved statline on the actual attack. This is the perfect place for the Daemon; however, and if that squad is in combat, the daemon will be too. Also, I could infiltrate in a conservative position and have 8 bolters to fall back on until the daemon shows up, then I could make a charge forward. They are expensive for the particular role I am filling with them, and they will be subject to small arms fire when no one else is, but with just that fire directed towards them, it is likely the power weapons and a daemon will get into combat and if they direct heavy weapons at them, the rest of my army has a better chance of getting there.
I chose the Predator because I needed the heavy bolters, and I wanted a lascannon. I figure, if it doesn't get destroyed early on, I can get many more heavy bolter shots in with daemonic possession than without it, and I think those heavy bolters are really important.
Do you think heavy bolter havocs would be stronger than the predator? I really like that idea as well, but I don't know which is stronger.
I also considered shuffling points around to get all fists on the chosen, but I couldn't really find the points and I didn't want to sacrifice Daemonic Possession
|
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2008/02/08 22:08:20
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/02/09 01:50:16
Subject: Casual Tournament Chaos with Greater Daemon
|
 |
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne
Burnaby, British Columbia
|
2 more obliterators would be better, at least IMO, with their plasmas, and lesser-vulnerability. the plasmas are better than the heavy bolters, again imo, at anti-infantry, and you can also shoot lascannons if you want. for the 10 man, i'd suggest giving them a heavy bolter instead, if you took my suggestion, as it's not a bad weapon to have... the plasmas are just better all-purpose, and they can kill those pesky terminators, too.
As for the heavy bolter havocs... lets see, 15 points a heavy bolter, 15 points a man... you'd probably be including an asp. champ, another 15... 150 at least. i'd suggest giving the champ a combi bolter as well, because it's shootier and you don't want to have him in combat anyway. total 155.
analysis: 4 heavy bolters = 12 S5 AP4 36" shots, which would be nasty vs. tau, vs a preadator: 6 S5 AP4 shots with 2 S7 AP4 shots, but also very vulnerable to a lot of things... get the havocs into cover and they'll be find, and won't even draw very much attention... most people don't consider heavy bolters much of a threat, which would help them greatly (but your obliterators, on the other hand, will be drawing quite a bit of fire, unfortunately)
overall, I myself would go for a pair more obliterators and give one of the champions a combi-bolter, but that's just me. havocs are fine too, since the oblits don't have as many shots in any way shape or form.
|
§§§§§§§§§§§__________§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§______§§§§§§§§§§§§§
__________§§§§§__§§§§§__________
___________§§§§§§§§§§___________
_____________§§§§§______________
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
__________§§§§§__§§§§§__________
________§§§§§______§§§§§________
______§§§§§__________§§§§§______
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2008/02/09 18:34:34
Subject: Re:Casual Tournament Chaos with Greater Daemon
|
 |
Violent Space Marine Dedicated to Khorne
|
Here's a thread that (until horribly derailed) had a decent discussion about Obliterators vs. Havocs, and much of the relevant math.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/206978.page
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/02/09 18:36:56
whitedragon wrote:
Well, I could run some numbers for you to help you decide, but according to popular opinion, math doesn't make any difference in 40k, so why bother. So instead, I'll recount a completely unverifiable, anecdotal piece of evidence to leverage my position.
One time, I had 8 Berzerkers charge some blood claws, and all the blood claws were killed. Another time, a squad of Grey Knight Terminators charged my berzerkers in cover, and my Berzerkers killed them all. Another time, my berzerkers got shot before they could reach the enemy, and another time they won me 100 bucks because a guy didn't believe I painted them myself, and he bet against me.
See how helpful that was? |
|
 |
 |
|
|