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Howdy Dakka Fans!

I've been enjoying Podcasts for quite some time now as a great way to make the commute back and forth to work feel shorter. On the way back from TempleCon, Raef, Craig, and I got the crazy idea to try one of our own. Yakface was kind enough to approve a sticky post here in the Dakka Discussions where we can chat about the latest episode.

So here is our first attempt. Episode 1 turned out to be quite long, and so I've had to split in into two parts: Episode 1a and Episode 1b. 1a is up and ready for your, um, enjoyment? In it we do a few gag bits that are hopefully entertaining, introduce ourselves, and spend a good amount of time discussing our adventures at TempleCon.

Episode 1b, which should be available within the next 24-48 hours, has a few more bits in it, with the big section being an open debate about is/why/how is PP gaining on GW.

Please don't hesitate to let us know what you think.. good..bad..or indifferent.

Here are the key links:

Subscribe to The D6 Generation

Our Page:

http://www.thed6generation.com (has a variety of ways to subsribe, including iTunes. Also has ability to stream live in your browser.)

Long winded. But cool to listen to. Can't wait to hear episode 1B.

Also, what was the article being refered to? It's been a while, and I don't recall the subject of it.

Glad you were able to make it to the end.

Episode 1b is up! Episode 1b is definitly juicier, covering GW vs PP and who does a better job. Let us know what ya think.

I forget the WD issue (I'll have Raef look at the number on his framed copy ) I think it was Spring '06. The debate was around "RAW" and Mauleed wrote up a rebutle to Raef that was also published in WD.

Good times... good times.

Oh yeah. I remember the flamewars that brought about.

Good times.

Finished 1B, and I gotta say. You were dead on with your assessment of what GW's has been doing wrong. I've been away from the hobby for a bit now. Most of it was due to not really being near any other gamers in WY and then in NE. But that's not why I stopped initially. I stopped initially, because of their boneheaded pricing.

I play Dark Angels, and especially love my Deathwing. I couldn't bring myself to spend $50 for a single box. Your analysis of this was spot on. I also became very turned off by the slow down and eventual cease of chapter approved support. If you're going to let your finished product sit with no support, you had better make sure that finished product is darn near perfect, which so obviously is not the case.

Anyway, I thought your podcast was terrific. I'll be looking forward to hearing more.

Loved 1b, gonna listen to a now.
Keep it up guys

Normally I wouldn't be drawn to comment.. but I couldn't help it..

While I like that you're trying to make it lively and stuff, I found it painful listening to 1A. The bloke who kept yelling over the top of everyone else really destroyed it for me - it made it feel like I wasn't actually getting any info as every time someone started to get into what they wanted to say he cut them off.

By all means make it lively - it keeps it interesting if someone isn't droning on in a monotone, but it went too far for me.

Listening to 1B now and it seems a LOT better. One thing I might suggest is that if you are going to talk about a GW vs. PP issue it would have been better to have someone who was more pro-GW to put across the other side. That sort of discussion would have been a lot more interesting for me.

Just wanted to offer that as constructive criticism as I haven't really seen it noted anywhere..

R

Rargh wrote:
While I like that you're trying to make it lively and stuff, I found it painful listening to 1A. The bloke who kept yelling over the top of everyone else really destroyed it for me - it made it feel like I wasn't actually getting any info as every time someone started to get into what they wanted to say he cut them off.

Yeah, I agree completely with this. Sat down to listen to it, and struggled through to the third minute or so, then cut it off. Couldn't stand the bloke yelling every time someone was BLEARH! about RAR! to NURP! say GERF! something BLARGH!interesting.

Reading some of the other comments, I'll go back and listen to 1b, but please; for the love of god – if someone's saying something, don't interrupt him! We're listening because we want to hear other people's thoughts and opinions; not to hear someone spouting barely coherent rubbish – if I wanted that, I'd go to internet forums.

Rargh wrote:Listening to 1B now and it seems a LOT better. One thing I might suggest is that if you are going to talk about a GW vs. PP issue it would have been better to have someone who was more pro-GW to put across the other side. That sort of discussion would have been a lot more interesting for me.

[tongue in cheek]Trouble is where would you find a disgruntled former PP player who has switched to GW? Such a beast doesn't exist as far as I can tell... which would only leave the ignorant GW fanboi-type who has never played PP or anything else aimed at the over-12's and just loves GW coz its all he knows![/tongue in cheek]

Cpl_Saint wrote:

Rargh wrote:
While I like that you're trying to make it lively and stuff, I found it painful listening to 1A. The bloke who kept yelling over the top of everyone else really destroyed it for me - it made it feel like I wasn't actually getting any info as every time someone started to get into what they wanted to say he cut them off.

Yeah, I agree completely with this. Sat down to listen to it, and struggled through to the third minute or so, then cut it off. Couldn't stand the bloke yelling every time someone was BLEARH! about RAR! to NURP! say GERF! something BLARGH!interesting.

Its "humour" guys! Sheesh! Give it a few more minutes and you'd have spotted that! Sometimes I really wonder...

Nope, the podcast gets a solid from me. Looking forward to the next!

Tetchy wrote:

Its "humour" guys! Sheesh! Give it a few more minutes and you'd have spotted that! Sometimes I really wonder...

Ermm... yeah - I got that he was trying to be funny from the first loud roar. Problem was I don't find someone yelling unintelligible noises over the top of another person who I might actually want to listen to funny. I'd rather hear actual opinions from people about gaming - funnily enough while I was listening to a podcast about gaming.

I was trying to offer constructive criticism to help improve the podcast rather than just a bland 'that was cool/crap' post. The man did say 'Please don't hesitate to let us know what you think.. good..bad..or indifferent.'

R

Wow. This would be a generation gap. The format you guys are lambasting is a parody of that old PBS show where the 3 guys debated issues. The host would ask a question, and the responder would get 3 words in before the host would say "WRONG!!!!". The name of the show escapes me at the moment.

SNL used to parody this also with Mike Myers playing the host.

Howdy Guys,

Thanks for taking the time to listen. It seems reviews are generally positive, but the "McLaughlin Group" bit at the begining of episode 1a is definitly getting mixed reviews. I think it might be a bit of a generation gap as KiMonarrez points out.

It really does only last 2-3 minutes, and it is a joke, there is really no attempt there to get actual information accross. It is indeed based on a political commentary show called "The McLaughlin Group" which still airs on Sunday mornings on PBS. The show has been around quite some time and has been lampooned on SNL, as can be seen here:

http://www.zippyvideos.com/5171469584804106/the_mcloughlin_group/

I can understand the confusion, as it is a new podcast, and there is no way to know if that is a parody, or if we are actually attempting to be serious. I think we may have to add a disclaimer in front of future episodes.

Please give 1a another listen, and if you can't stand the yelling, just fast forward about 2-3 min's in.

Now I know how Orson Wells felt with War of the Worlds.

I enjoyed the show.
Specially that 1b discussion pp vs. gw and i agree with alot of the points made.
looking forward to ep.2

though i have to curse you boys for mentioning taco bell. no taco bell in germany ya see, been clean for 4 years but you guys, you dont help!

RussWakelin wrote:I think it might be a bit of a generation gap as KiMonarrez points out.

Well, I'm 40 this year, and British to boot and I still spotted that you were taking the pee...

I think that perhaps there are just a lot of gamers who don't have such finely developed humour muscles as the rest of us!

As you say, hopefully the second time around, those that are more challenged in the general area of their funny bone may get the gag...

Mike Myers, Dana Carvey... whatever.

i just gave 1b a listen and i thought the discussion about gw vs. pp was excellent. You were completely straight forward and didn't avoid the issue like most people tend to do. Now we just need some GW higher ups to have a listen.

A good job on both parts of episode one, I alway quite like the fact there was not alot of dead air like the other podcasts I have listened to as well. It certainly seems like you have practiced and rehearsed the subject matter.

I immensely enjoyed the "McLaughlin Group" spiel at the beginning, but then again I have been watching PBS for the last 30 years, so it may very well be a generational gap.

A suggestion to make it more palatable for everyone, including myself, is to use volume leveling to make the guy doing John Mclaughlin's place to be less voluminous. The reason being is that when you listen, suddenly his voice does become rather loud and irritating. He should be loud, but without making my speakers blow...

I really thought the discussion in 1B was very well done. Differing viewpoints was a good thing.

Regarding GW marketing "strategy". Amen! Tell it on the mountain, Brother!

I have been harping since last years Adepticon that they need to fast track a new edition of their rules ASAP lest they lose all of their customer base due to sheer boredom with arguing.

The point about removing 40K to specialist status is a good idea. An entire review of the game mechanics is in order. The "UGOIGO" mechanic is no longer innovative and we were all bored with it when 3rd ed died, if not LONG before.

Too bad Rackham already made a great rules base with alternating activation that GW should have done with the onset of 4th ed. Its also too bad they didn't listen to Andy Chambers and sacked him/forced resignation/whatever when they had the chance to really make 40K into something better... Shame.

Yes, I want to hear more.

I hope after awhile we will have a selection of topics, such things as: "Infinity: What's it all about, really?" or "AT-43: Is it worth your time?", etc.

Preach it Hellfury!

I think I posted somewhere (maybe in my mind) a good long while back when 5th edition was first rumoured, that 40k needs to be totally replaced, not just revised, but that given what happened to Rackham over Conf. that such a move would be dangerous and the logical response would be to keep both "old 40k" and "new 40k" running concurrently and gradually shunt the "old 40k" into a siding like they did with SG.

I too think 40k is just "old fashioned" now as a game and unworthy of the fluff and models, which on the whole are pretty good.

Great Podcast, I even liked the McLaughlin Group parody, but that's probably because I enjoyed the SNL skit back in the day.

It's a great thing to listen to while you paint and I'll definitely be subscribing to future podcasts.

If you ever want to take phone call "guests" I'd definitely be up for doing one of these.

Tetchy wrote:Preach it Hellfury!

I think I posted somewhere (maybe in my mind) a good long while back when 5th edition was first rumoured, that 40k needs to be totally replaced, not just revised, but that given what happened to Rackham over Conf. that such a move would be dangerous and the logical response would be to keep both "old 40k" and "new 40k" running concurrently and gradually shunt the "old 40k" into a siding like they did with SG.

I too think 40k is just "old fashioned" now as a game and unworthy of the fluff and models, which on the whole are pretty good.

I think the point Russ was trying to make is that 40K as it stands right now, with the rules it uses, is very outdated. To regain a modicum of trust the speakers talk about, they suggest the only way it will be better is a complete overhaul in every way. From "UGOIGO" to turn structure, etc. Invariably, it needs to be completely redone from the ground up. 40K is basically a SG game anyways. If you like 2nd or 3rd ed, then you have to use out of print books. 4th ed will become the same way obviously.

We are pretty sure this isnt happening, however, due to what we know about 5th ed developments. Its the same game tweaked. More of the same old "UGOIGO", etc.
In essence, GW is trying to put gold plate on a turd, in hopes that if they make the poop shiny, we wont notice the smell.

The issues you cite with rackham losing its customers have less to do with rules and more to do with models. Confrontation players already had a current very nice looking model set. Then rackham decided to go all prepaints (a VERY hotly debated topic). This made many people crazy upset, so much so that many distributors dropped their products.

AT-43 wasn't so drastic as there weren't any models existent for players to mourn.

Thankfully, Rackham has decided to reverse this decision.

Since it seems rather unlikely that GW will go the prepainted route with 40K, I don't think GW needs to worry about losing customers for that. The rules on the other hand....

I'm not sure I'd agree that UGOIGO is the problem with 40k. There are some EXCEPTIONALY well designed games right now that still use it (FoW, WM, Hordes, etc)

The integrated turn system (i.e. you move a model then I move a model instead of moving your whole army) is not really new either, anyone remember a little game called Chess, or how about checkers? I've seen some wonderful games with integrated turn systems, and I've also seen some aweful ones.

But you bring up a great idea for a future show... discussing game mechanic concepts and what work and what don't. UGOIGO vs Integrated turns would be a great topic.

Hellfury wrote:I immensely enjoyed the "McLaughlin Group" spiel at the beginning, but then again I have been watching PBS for the last 30 years, so it may very well be a generational gap.

I did as well, i used to watch John McLaughlin interrupt people while shaking his jowls and neck wattles. Good times.


Russ the show is very well done and I enjoyed it . I do think you should do a bit on the fact that while 40K tournments are on the decline (Adepticon being the exception) Fantasy tournments are still on the upswing because the players themselves have set up an entire network from coast to coast of tournments. In fact GW made a rare smart move on piggy backing with them to boost their own GT system.

I just finished both episodes and enjoyed them immensely. I also enjoyed the McLaughlin Group parody, but then again, I've seen the show from time to time.

I'm looking forward to the next podcast!

Hi All:

Hollywood here. Thanks for tuning in to our maiden podcast. Yeah. We are working on our mic control so that we have the best sound quality we can get. Really appreciate all the posts and look for the answers to some of your questions by tuning in. Also, there is a rumor of a very unique literally one of a kind prize being offered in the future. I am not allowed to leak anymore than I did. As a matter of fact Craig may just send the Inquisition after me as it is. So on that note, I am going off the grid.

Hollywood aka Raef aka Stonedogs.


PS. Tune it for the WD issue #. And, there was a really lively thread back in the day on this article. A lot of people hated it, and I had some very staunch supporters defending me. Also, as Russ pointed out, Mauleed wrote a great article/ rebuttal as well.

KiMonarrez wrote:Wow. This would be a generation gap. The format you guys are lambasting is a parody of that old PBS show where the 3 guys debated issues. The host would ask a question, and the responder would get 3 words in before the host would say "WRONG!!!!". The name of the show escapes me at the moment.

SNL used to parody this also with Mike Myers playing the host.

Meh...might be partially true, but I remember the Mclaughlin Group and I remember Mike Meyers parady on SNL. I considered this podcast satire to an SNL sketch, a funny 30 second bit spread out over 3 minutes.

On the plus note, without even having any really personal knowledge of the PP games, I found the second podcast informative and entertaining.

I have to say I enjoyed listening to your podcasts 1a and 1b back to back.

The parts I liked the most were attempting to keep to a point to discuss it in its entirety (or as many angles as you could come up with).

While you did that reasonably well with the GW vs PP topic, what I really felt was missing was some key "Definitions" or run downs.

If you had taken the time to structure your topic discussion better with some key information at the start rather than haphazardly about GW (what it is i.e. "a squad based miniature game", how long its been around, how many rulesets have been produced, how it is supported etc...) or PP (I have no idea about PP other than I liked the trollblood miniatures from hordes when I saw them online).

I'm not asking for a complete synopsis, just a quick run down of the facts first.

I think you could apply that to all the future games or topics that you would like to introduce or debate.

I think you tried to cover all the aspects about why you thought GW's customer base might be being poached by PP and I especially enjoyed the discussion about the differences in business practices between the two companies.

I agree with Rargh's comments about having somebody argue slightly more in GW's favour about the things they don't like about PP's business practices, or things they see as doing wrong as this leads to more intelligent thought/discussion from your listeners...and hey if they're talking about your podcast then you've won the battle for interest.

Hopefully you can take these constructive critisicms onboard, I was impressed by the podcast and will listen to more.

Thanks.

Love the suggestions and critiques everyone. I really appreciate folks not only taking the time to listen, but also thinking about how the show was and taking the time to write up some suggestions.

We're working on Episode 2 and hope to have it up this week. We've been scouring all the forums for feedback and have received some great ideas.

BeefyG, you raise some great points about some assumptions we made about our listeners familiarity with both PP and GW products. There's probably a future show or two in there someplace with detailed discussion about GW, then a separate show about PP. We’ve had some requests to look at other game systems too, such as AT-43, that will be fun too.

RussWakelin wrote: We’ve had some requests to look at other game systems too, such as AT-43, that will be fun too.

ie more excuses to buy stuff

just finished 1B and I wanted to say I really enjoyed it.

I would give a more detailed review but I wanna listen to 1A, so and keep up the good work