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Hi, I have a quick question about cover saves. If I have a situation with 2 individual models, their bases represented by A's and B's, with some blocking terrain in between represented by X's (say a large building or hill):

             XXXXXXX
              XXXXXXX
AA          XXXXXXXBB
AA                      BB


Would model B receive a cover save if shot by model A? My friends believe that if a straight line can be drawn from any part of A's base to B's base that is unobstructed, as the rules are written he would not get a cover save. Is this accurate, or because a line also can be drawn from A's base to B's base that crosses cover, he would get a cover save? Thanks!

Page 25, units partially in cover state that if part of a unit is in cover then check how many models count as in cover and how many count as not in cover, if a majority are in cover then all counts as in cover if not then all count as not in cover.

A model that is not in cover from any shooting model counts as not in cover.

In your above example there are two models in cover and two that are not, a majority is thus not in cover and the unit counts as in the open.

Somthing to consider here is that it is important who you pick as casualties here as if you remove too many of the cover models then the next unit that shoots at them may shoot without cover saves.

If view from the shooter to the target is partial obscured by terrain then the target gets a cover save. If the shooter can see 100% of his target (all portions of all models in the target unit) then the target gets no cover save. In the case of some of the target unit being in cover and some out, use the majority.

In your case, B would get a save from A's shooting, but A is unlikely to get a cover save from B's shooting (you'll have to check the line of sight).

All of this is assuming that the X's are not area terrain, or if they are area terrain, that no part of B's base is actualy inside the area terrain. If B's base is inside area terrain, then things get muddy since you start dealing with the area terrain rules.

fester wrote:
In your above example there are two models in cover and two that are not, a majority is thus not in cover and the unit counts as in the open.

.

To clarify, in the above example the a's represent one single base, say a large base or monstrous creature, and the b's also represent a single base, another monstrous creature or large base.

The x's are not area terrain. They are a single block, like a large building or mountain, and B is not in the terrain, but the mountain is between B and A.


1)
            XXXXXXX
            XXXXXXX
AA       XXXXXXXBB
AA                   BB



How would the cover situation be treated for
2)A shooting at B, and B shooting at A? when the mountain is between them.
              XXXXXXX
              XXXXXXX
AA           XXXXXXX        BB
AA                                BB


3)When both A and B are up near the mountain?
       XXXXXXX
      XXXXXXX
AA XXXXXXXBB
AA             BB

If view from the shooter to the target is partial obscured by terrain then the target gets a cover save. If the shooter can see 100% of his target (all portions of all models in the target unit) then the target gets no cover save. In the case of some of the target unit being in cover and some out, use the majority.

How is this judged, because page 25 doesn't technically say 100%. It only says "the firer's line of sight crosses over cover". Thus my friends interperet that to mean if you can draw a line from any point on the firer's base to any point on the target's base, without crossing cover, then the target gets no cover save. The only way to get a cover save is for no part/0% of the target's base to be in the clear.

Page 20, line of sight.

Use a model's eye view to figure it out. If that proves difficult, use a laser pointer. But in either case, if you can see the whole model, it's not in cover. If part of it can't be seen due to terrain being in the way, then it's in cover.

For situation 2, either both models will get cover or neither will depending on if the X's actualy block line of sight to A and B. Again, a model's eye view will be required to figure out if this is the case or not.

For situation 3, they will both get cover since neither of them is going to be able to see 100% of the other.

Arturo:
Ok, so the X's block LOS, all four A's represent a single model and all B's represent another single model.

In that case B would count as having cover from A in example 1, 2 and 3.

For a model to count as in cover part of its base must be behind cover, the fact that you can trace a miniscule LOS unhindered from A's base to B's base makes no difference.

What I thought was that the A's were 4 individual models and the B's were another 4 models my bad on reading, must have had the sun in my eye or dyslexia kicking in or somthing

Nomatter what the X's represent as long as its high enough model B will always get cover in situations 1 and 2, say walls, forest, ruins...
In ituation 3 however cover may not be granted as both models are in the same cover.

fester wrote:
In ituation 3 however cover may not be granted as both models are in the same cover.

Untrue. That is only relevent for area terrain (and even then I'm not sure if its the case anymore). Best to look that one up.

Phoenix wrote:

fester wrote:
In ituation 3 however cover may not be granted as both models are in the same cover.

Untrue. That is only relevent for area terrain (and even then I'm not sure if its the case anymore). Best to look that one up.

As the X's are placed together I did consider this one terrain piece, if it had been say a number of separate low walls then I would have expected there to be a space between them.

Ex            XX XXXXX
              XXX XXXX
         AA XXX XXXXBB
         AA              BB