Wazdakka and all those weapons

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**yamato**

I have been thinking of modeling Wazdakka Gutsmek for fun/sale; but I'm a bit confused with all of the weapons:

I can only assume that he can still only shoot one weapon per turn, as the "bikes" rules indicate, but I am struggling to see where you would ever find need to use the slugga.

he has the Dakkakannons, Kustom Mega Blasta, Slugga, Power Klaw. I could maybe see using the KMB for the AP2 in special circumstances, but why use the slugga? will you only get the extra CC attack if you use the slugga on the shooting phase prior to a charge?

His base attacks in the profile is four(4). does it really matter which weapon he fires in the shooting phase prior to an assault?

If not, why would you ever choose to shoot the slugga over the bike-mounted dakkakannons?

**insaniak**

I would assume the slugga is there purely for the extra CC attack.

I can't see any particular reason to ever shoot with it.

**yamato**

so is that already included in the 4 base attacks?

**insaniak**

No. The bonus attack for a second CCW is never included in a model's stat line.

**Stelek**

You only shoot his main gun really. The slugga gives him an extra attack.

He's pretty gnarly all around.

**fester**

Well if we want to nitpick the rules state that he may fire his weapons when he turboboosts.

Sillyness aside I would guess he has the slugga as a second CC weapon only.

The real question to me is why he has a kustom shoota, true he is in spirit a mek but still there are very fes situatiuons when I would go for the get hot kustom blasta over his dakkakannons.

**yamato**

fester wrote:he is in spirit a mek but still there are very fes situatiuons when I would go for the get hot kustom blasta over his dakkakannons.

I agree completely! even against terminators, I think I would rather take the extra shots, especially with the BS 2! Heck, most of the time you are going to miss a house with that thing, give me the Assault 4 weapon!

**zozo**

yamato wrote:
fester wrote:he is in spirit a mek but still there are very fes situatiuons when I would go for the get hot kustom blasta over his dakkakannons.

I agree completely! even against terminators, I think I would rather take the extra shots, especially with the BS 2! Heck, most of the time you are going to miss a house with that thing, give me the Assault 4 weapon!

KMB gives you a 50% better shot at killing a Termie over the Dakkacannon. Though the Dakkacannon has the VERY unlikely chance of taking out more than one (something approximating 1.2%) and no chance of getting hot.

Sean

**MagickalMemories**

I don't have my BGB here.
If I did, I would simply look it up myself.
I don't, so I'm asking this question.

That being said, please don't flame me for asking if I'm wrong. A simple rule quote will be fine. Thanks.

I thought that any model on a bike lost the extra attack for an off hand CCW because one hand had to be used to control the bike.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

If that is the case, it lends strength to those who say he truly MAY fire ALL of his weapons.

Thank you.
Eric

**insaniak**

MagickalMemories wrote:I thought that any model on a bike lost the extra attack for an off hand CCW because one hand had to be used to control the bike.

Not since 3rd edition.

Under the current rules, you're only restricted to keeping one hand on the bike if your codex actually says as much. Which right now means Dark Eldar. Everyone else is free to use as many hands as they own.

**akira5665**

Yeah, seems like an "Evil Kenival' Power of the Machine Spirit.

Makes Orks on bikes........Cheezy.......

**cuda1179**

If they had only kept "Fixit" the grot in the rules it would have been fine. Then you could claim there was a second crew member on the bike, and fire two weapons.

**Stelek**

You still can't fire more weapons than you have riders.

So that means Wazzdakka fires 1 weapon per turn.

Pick the one you want. I'd rather fire the dakkacannon myself.

**fester**

Stelek wrote:You still can't fire more weapons than you have riders.

So that means Wazzdakka fires 1 weapon per turn.

Pick the one you want. I'd rather fire the dakkacannon myself.

While I do agree with you in spirit the rules for Wazzdakka does state that he may fire his weapons, plural.

While you could argue that the dakkakannon is two weapons this is per the rules not so as its twin linked and counts as one weapon.

Now if I played against a player and he claimed to be allowed to shoot his dakkakannons, his KMB and his slugga I would siply clip him over the head and tell him not to be an idiot. This however does not alter that you could argue exactly this due to a single little "s" at the end of the word weapons in Wazzdakka's entry.

**yakface**

There is a base rule which only allows a model to fire one weapon.

Wazdakka's rule simply states that he may still fire his weapons when he turbo boosts. There is nothing implicit in that rule which allows him to override the basic restriction.

He just has the option to fire any one of his weapons after turbo-boosting is all his rule allows him.

**fester**

Yakface
Yes there is a rule that states that you may only fire one weapon.

There however are also special rules that break this rule (ex TAU).

I am myself very much aware that Wazzdakka has no such special rule, Im actually not sure why I play the devils advocate here but a hardnosed rulesbender could very well use such a small straw to build a 20.000 ton displacement tanker, yes its still just made of straw but its a 20.000 ton displacement tanker

**budro**

I understand that you're playing devil's advocate here. The conclusion based on using the "When Wazdakka uses a Turbo Boost he may still fire his weapons that turn" to say that he may fire all his weapons, means he can only do so if he turbo boosts. Which means that if he doesn't TB he can only fire one weapon. doesn't make any logical sense that he could fire more weapons while TBing then moving slower (or sitting still).

So use that to counter any cheater that tries to pull it on you.

**fester**

As far as I can tell there is nothing preventing a bike model/unit from turbo boosting every turn, all that is stated in the rules is that a model turbo boosting must end his move atleast 18" from where he started.

Yes there are rules on how such a model may move such as the max move is 24", no driving through diffiult terrain, no assaults... but as far as I can see no rules making it impossible to zoom back and forth for the entire battle.

A model such as Wazzdakka would actually only benefit from doing so, his 4+ save becomes inv and for those pesky few weapons that deny inv saves he still has his 4+ cover save.

Now like I said I agree, he can only fire one weapon but this whole discussion was started as Wazzdakka has twin linked dakkakannons, a KMB, a slugga and a power claw, it is actually a very wierd weapons combo.

I would still go for the 4 dakkakannon shots over the KMB any day, the KMB may have a higher chance of wounding a heavilly armoured model however the fact that the KMB is get hot has to be factored in too.

**yamato**

I don't think that the Dakkakannon is twin linked

**fester**

Hmm, oddly enough RAW you are right, it isnt twin linked. Question now becomes is this a typo or intentional.

After all normal warbikes are armed with a slugga, choppa and a dakkagun as well as having a twin linked dakkagun mounted on their bikes by RAW...

**Wehrkind**

The KMB might become a little nicer in 5th if they adjust Gets Hot like the rumors keep suggesting. Just a thought... haven't given it much otherwise.

**fester**

Wehrkind, I havent seen the much spoken about 5th edition PDF and most of the rumors I hear here at Dakka, what are the rumors for them?

The only problem I have with KMB is the fact that meks cant get ammo runts, I meen oilers is all fine and well but not to have ammo runts even available.

If I get a big mek with a shokkatakkgun I will however have to get an ammo runt and model him overrun with snotlings, not sure how I will manage to get the fear into the gretchins face as he knows he will have to get close to be fired himself when Da Big Mek calls for more snots...

**cuda1179**

Actually, there is a rule that you may fire one weapon per rider on a bike. That is why I was disappointed that the grot "Fixit" was not included in the current rules for Wazdakka. It would have made so much sence.

**yamato**

Does he need to fire the slugga in the round that he assaults in order to use the extra CC attack, or can he fire the Dakkakannon or KMB, and then switch to the slugga as he charges into CC?

**fester**

He may fire any weapon he has in the shooting and will still count as having 2 CC weapons in the close combat.

There is no rule I have ever seen that state anything else... well mainly as untill the chaos codex no model could have more than 2 weapons but ...

**yamato**

ya, the DA, and BA give all tac marines bolters and bolt pistols, so now your bolter armed marines can shoot before charging (twice if they haven't moved

)

**tegeus-Cromis**

You can't charge after double-tapping a pistol.

**yamato**

quite right, my mistake