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Vampire Lord - General
lvl3, Nightmare
Powers: Master of the Black Arts,Forbidden Lore,Lord of The Dead
Items: Balefire Spike,Helm of Commandment,Black Periapt,Walach's Bloody Hauberk
-475

Vampire - BSB
lvl1
Powers:Walking Death,Infinite Hatred
Items:Flayed Hauberk,Talisman of Lycni,Sword of Might
-225

Vampire
lvl1, Barded Nightmare
Powers: Infinite Hatred,Dread Knight
Items: Book of Arkhan
-185

Necromancer
lvl1,1 extra spell,scroll,powerstone
-115
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15 Skeleton Warriors
FC
-140

15 Skeleton Warriors
FC
-140

15 Crypt Ghouls
Champ
-128

5 Dire Wolves
-40

5 Dire Wolves
-40
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6 Black Knights
Std,Mus,Barding,Royal Standard of Strigos
-227

6 Black Knights
Std,Barding
-184

5 Fell Bats
-100
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-1999
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As I'm building a new vc army I need some sort of framework for starters. This is supposed to be a bit more defensive list due to the caster lord. Hang back a bit, summon & heal stuff, maybe throw in curse and other damage spells and as opponents magic defense is worn out a bit, I can try casting some dancing later in the game. The chars cost awful lot but it seems to be the name of the game with the new VC. Altough the lord is magic man, he and the thralls can deal some damage in combat too, altough I don't know if I need the 2nd levels for the lesser vampires to get even more magic instead of combat ability. I'd also like to have 2nd scroll, but 7dd is plenty in many cases. 2250 would be a more comfortable size as I could get a bit more support stuff, but I guess I'll aim for 2k first.

With half your points in black knights your already pretty offensive, go with it.

Also, you have three guys who want the 2 army dice. Upgrade one of the two vamps to a lvl 2 or give him the power that gives him 2 extra dice.

Other than that, i would drop ghouls and get more skeletons.

cypher wrote:With half your points in black knights your already pretty offensive, go with it.

Also, you have three guys who want the 2 army dice. Upgrade one of the two vamps to a lvl 2 or give him the power that gives him 2 extra dice.

Other than that, i would drop ghouls and get more skeletons.

Remember that I have 1 dice from the periapt usually, so that gives all the lvl1s 2 dice to play with. I see the merits for upgrading one vamp to level 2, though. As for the ghouls, I kinda like the idea of having at least 1 block who can fight a bit, altough I can't summon them to become larger. It also has to be said, that altough the lord and other hero vampire have ponies they won't usually be joining the black knights unless some suitable situation arises where I need the extra combat punch.

I must disagree with Cypher. Ghouls seem better than skeletons this time around. Their T4 is comparable to LA+Sh and their greater WS and number of attacks, and poison makes them more potent. Take a ghoulkin and they become scary fast.

Some numbers (all assume 20 models 5 wide w/champ):

Charged by Empire Swordsmen:
Ghouls: Suffer 1.333 4 Inflict 1.375 back 3 inflict 1.625

Skeles: Suffer 1 Inflict .75

Charging WS T3 3 T3 4+
Ghouls: Inflict 1.875 Suffer .833 or .666
Skeles: Inflict .75 Suffer 1 or .833

Charged by S5(lance) T3 2+ AS Cav on S3 WS3:
Ghouls: suffer 3.433 inflict .21
Skeles: suffer 3.4 inflict .125

Charge same:
Ghouls: Inflict 0.625 Suffer 1.666 or 1.833
Skeles: Inflict 0.25 Suffer 1.831

The big advantage skeletons have is Full Command and Magic Banner. However, this also makes them more expensive.

I like the list in general. I am not sold on the blocks of 15, though. 1 24 man skele anvil units flanked by ghouls would probably work well.

6 BKs is also very vulnerable to attrition. That banner looks like an expensive target to me. Maybe shift to a 10-12 man group?

If you want to go speedy, try mounted/lycni/varghulf +ghoulkin, BKs, wolf screens, fell bats, and ghouls. Step 1: March ghouls up 8 first turn (effectively covering 16 in Turn 1- not bad for infantry) and roar up the field since everything else is M7 or better! Step 2:??? Step 3: Profit.

jmurph wrote:I like the list in general. I am not sold on the blocks of 15, though. 1 24 man skele anvil units flanked by ghouls would probably work well.

6 BKs is also very vulnerable to attrition. That banner looks like an expensive target to me. Maybe shift to a 10-12 man group?

If you want to go speedy, try mounted/lycni/varghulf +ghoulkin, BKs, wolf screens, fell bats, and ghouls. Step 1: March ghouls up 8 first turn (effectively covering 16 in Turn 1- not bad for infantry) and roar up the field since everything else is M7 or better! Step 2:??? Step 3: Profit.

The skeleton blocks could definetly be larger for starters, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem since I'll be boosting them up with the big vampire at least first and probably 2nd turn, so they have full cr. Also, I'm in the mindset that multiple smaller bk units are better than one big one as if you want to have outnumber-situation, you can usually charge two units in. It also gives me a lot more options than wielding just 1 big hammer would. I have the bsb and the vampires have an option to joining the knights so that should help a bit with the attrition (in addition to actually choosing what and when you charge/fight wisely). I realise that the "speedy" concept is pretty interesting (ghoulkin, ghouls, speedy vamps, possible 1st turn charges etc.), but I'm not trying to make that kind of list here.

I was suggesting making the ghouls skeletons so that you could raise to them. Otherwise you have to wait for ghouls to die before you can raise.

Basically, you want to make sure your casters always have something to do.

I totaoly agree with that

I concur. It really hurts to have both skeles and ghouls since you can only raise past max on one of them. Of course, the ghouls do offer you some more hitting power.

All in all, it is very similar to the list I have (that 6th left me with...). But that will be changing soon.... ;-)