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Made in us

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut

SF Bay Area, CA

Well done.
Made in us
Infiltrating Oniwaban


Very well written. You present both the RAW support and the balanced, logical consideration very well. Although I differ with you on your final call (Magic Cylinder Lite is just faster, bar "creative modeling" abuses that are easily discarded by a judge), your presentation of th facts and their weight against each other is superb.

Thank you for going to the trouble to do this.

Infinity: Way, way better than 40K and more affordable to boot!

"If you gather 250 consecutive issues of White Dwarf, and burn them atop a pyre of Citadel spray guns, legend has it Gwar will appear and answer a single rules-related question. " -Ouze 
Made in us
Disbeliever of the Greater Good

Well here's my first post on the site.

A big point to remember is that, if the models were real, they'd actually be moving. Troops don't stand in one pose as if they were frozen in time, they're always ducking and weaving or swinging their arms or just doing something. The models aren't showing this, they stay in one position, making it easy to want to say that you could shoot through that crack in the armor at that terminator's armpit. The best way to compensate for this is to use the MCLite version for LOS. It just makes the most sense overall really.
Made in us
Madrak Ironhide

I'm sure yakface will revise for 5th edition and other
experiences. But yeah, the debate's always open both in
modeling and ymdc if you're willing to jump into the shark

Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
Made in au
Hard-Wired Sentinel Pilot


A well written article, and now I actually know what the magic cylinder is. Thanks to the Author!

Armies Owned: Iron Warriors, Tau

Undead Titan Log
Malfred: Terminator Armor has always had room for extra boobage.
Drake_Marcus: It's true- that's why the Space Wolves love termie armour so much. The whole "bear" thing they've got going on is just a thinly veiled cover-up of their huge, hairy cleavage. 
Made in hu
Baying Member of the Mob

Good article, covering the issue and different LOS aspects pretty well. Anyhow article is favoring the real LOS side, which is honestly admitted by the writer. I think "the magic cylider" is a name given by the opposition. In a similar way "Model's eye view" should be something like "Frozen warriors":

"Private! Take your hand down, we are all going to die!"
"Sir!, I can't, I was cast this way".

LOS and ZOC (or: "The magic cylinder") are quite common and important rules, both are widely used in strategy games. I think the best solution would be to use true LOS for vehicles (to stop those buggy actions) and ZOC to those models, which are using bases. But I think GW want's to make game simpler and easier to play for younger and new players, so giving a very simple "no exceptions" solution for LOS is a good answer. Both systems have their good and bad points, in true LOS there is two, which I find problematic:

-Converted models are illegal, as you are not allowed to convert rules. Now a whole mode is a game mechanical object, in ZOC only it's base is. I still would like to convert and see converted armies, but every opponent has the right to say no for those models now. In ZOC approach the gamers have relatively big freedom to use their imagination and creativity, leaving only the base size to be fixed. In True LOS there is also difference between old and new models. Same goes to small details, like how you glue your space marines on their bases. There is a difference if your model is not in the middle, but close to the side (it's easier to hide the model eg. against a wall). This can happen just because someone want's to have scenic bases, with fallen enemies or large rocks on them. Not to talk about voluntary and intentional abuse, but who can tell and judge the difference?

-"I can shoot you, but you can't shoot me", it's possible in true LOS, but not in ZOC.
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