Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My friend and I were having a debate about armor saves in Fantasy. I was told (as I have not yet gotten the rule book) that you can never have better that a 1+ armor save. However my other friend tells me that you can have a 0+ or even a -1+, you always lose a wound on a roll of a one either way. The only point of saves better than 1+ is when other great weapon weilding units or characters hit you. What is the real rule?

Your friend is correct, it is possible to get a 0+ or better armor save.

A S6 attack gives a -3 modifier to an armor save.
A model with a 4+ AS would get no save against a S6 attack.
A model with a 0+ AS would save on a 3+... but a roll of a 1 is always a failure.



Having a really good armor save means that you will still have a chance against some very high-strength attacks.

It does you no good against things that ignore armor saves, like war machines.

you can get a save better than 1+. this was a change from 5th to 6th edition. in 5th, you could never get better than a 1+, but a 1+ save was always a save unless they were Stength 4 or higher. now you can get better than a 1+ but a roll of a 1 is always a fail. I liked the change, as it made it possible for weaker units to kill Chaos Knights who in 5th ed had a 1+ save.

One note
dwarves can never get better than a 1+
Its just a dwarf rule

really, I've never seen that. I don't see how they could, seeign as how they have no mounts. but the only rule I've seen is that it says that the master rune of gromril give the chatacter a 1+ savw that can't be improved in any way. like I said, I don't know how they could, but I think it would still be ok if some one figured out a way to do it.

Sounds like dwarf player grumbling about their lack of super hard armor saves, not seriously mentioning a rule.

In reality there are very few things that can achieve more than a 1+ save anyway. Doing so usually is the result of mounting on a barded steed (or equivilant) with full plate and an enchanted shield.