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JohnHwangDD wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:I agree how important it is to show GW that distributing some love to the non-power armored armies.

You do know that buying DE aren't the only option available, right?

You could start a brand new Nid army, pick up a Imperial Superheavy Company for Apocalypse, or simply jump into War of the Ring... Any of those choices would be more than acceptable as far as GW is concerned.

ou
Nids get updated often enough that I don't think GW needs any additional proof to support them further.

WotR seems to be outright dying at this rate, and I could really care less about it either way.

I certainly wouldn't be sending them any message by being one of several trillion players to buy Imperial stuff for Apoc.

This is about supporting a re-release of a Xeno army that should have gotten a crappy 4E codex like everyone else. This is about showing them that Marines and their seemingly endless derivatives are not the only thing that can generate revenue for them.

Is me shelling out 200 bucks on DE stuff going to make them stop making every other release a MEQ release? Probably not. But if players stepped up and actually supported GW doing something that doesn't suck it might influence their business practices a little bit. Wouldn't it be downright awesome if we could get Codex: Hrud or Codex: Demiurg at some point? Or even Codex: Mechanicus?

Hell, if I like the new models and codex I might actually play them. They seem a little silly right now fluffwise, but I kinda dig the aesthetic of the models. But if they keep the "fast but fragile" theme of the army, it'd complement my 'crons pretty nicely.

Talknig about ecclesiarchal-inquisitional troops... Aren't Repentia sisters SoB? AFAIK (wich is C:WH) you don't need to deploy a Inquisitor or a Priest to field a Repentia Sisters unit, and in the brief text at the right of their description in the army list says something about being fanatical Sisters in a holier position than a standard SoB troop. Or that's what I undestood.

^ yep. They are sob.

The best GW can usually do with the Dark Eldar is make them look like raiders in the big MMO that is the 40k galaxy. If they pulled stuff like they did in the Ultramarine omnibus - trying to hijack the Nightbringer's flagship, or suceeding in doing something more than abduct puny humans, like NOT getting slaughtered when they investigated that sleeping hive ship in the nid codex they might be more popular.

I'm not familiar with the Dark Elves in WHFB, but I do know they are a popular army. Is it fluff, or the army's viability?

VikingScott wrote:^ yep. They are sob.

Thanks Sir. I don't know why people say they are Ecclesiarchy :S

Siege_TF wrote:I'm not familiar with the Dark Elves in WHFB, but I do know they are a popular army. Is it fluff, or the army's viability?

I think it's both. The fluff has been quite more developed, and the part of Malekith leaving Ulthuan is quite cool. The Fall could be equally cool if it would be also better developed. And I think that Dark Elves in Fantasy are a more flexible army than DE in 40K.

JohnHwangDD wrote:You do know that buying DE aren't the only option available, right?

You could start a brand new Nid army, pick up a Imperial Superheavy Company for Apocalypse, or simply jump into War of the Ring... Any of those choices would be more than acceptable as far as GW is concerned.

Typically when it's made known that a certain codex is upcoming, there will be a resounding expression of disappointment from the people who have no interest...

But this is the first time I've actually seen somebody try to convince somebody else to not buy the new product. I mean, I had no interest in SWs or BAs but it never crossed my mind to tell a BA fan "You don't need to buy that. Buy Ultramarines instead. They're SMs too ya know..." Then again, it was never my intention to undermine the potential success of a GW product. Don't you want DE to sell like crazy? I thought you wanted more GEQ armies...

Erasoketa wrote:

VikingScott wrote:^ yep. They are sob.

Thanks Sir. I don't know why people say they are Ecclesiarchy :S

Far as I know the SOB are the chamber militant of the Ecclesiarchy...because Imperial law or some such prevents them from having any "Men at Arms".

Don't you want DE to sell like crazy?

No, then he'd be wrong.

Dark Eldar will thrive when they are re-released, you can quote me on that.



Having 12 years to update their rules, character development, and overall theme will do them well. The new codex will do two things;

#1: It will impress a vast majority of people showing them a new light in a potential of an army that they have not seent before, DE already have the accuracy of a shooty army (while less range) and are some of the best units at CC in the game, this update will only improve apon that and show the general population what they have been missing out on. -WARNING TANGENT KEEP READING AT YOUR OWN RISK- They are paper yes, but this will give people a new army to try, as they are truely unique. They are the "Rogue Class" army and I think that this will be more successful for players of all types. Moderately easy to play yet extremely difficult to master, but when mastered easily the deadliest foe on the board, even with a 12 year old book and 2 editions of rule changes that were disadventageous to them. When they get an upgrade, it will be impressive, maybe different from as they are now, but I think the general feel of "The Vorpal Weapon" of warhammer armies will still be theirs. I only hope the Inquisitions update changes them to be in the same league as DE but for people who like playing Humans... As currently none of the Space Marine lists have anything far too strategically impressive, sure Marines are EASY to play with, and EASY to win with most of the time... but good opponents can stomp even a good blood angels list with such a terrible (debative obviously) dex as Necrons... I just hope that Inquix doesn't fall into this same "Fisher Price My First Wargame" army type that is Space Marines (and to an extent, most guard lists).

And

#2: Will piss off a decent amount of current dark eldar players due to the inevitable changes that will occur (such as Grotesque rules). This however, should not matter much in the long run as many of these players have not purchased any new models in the past three years (I am one of these people, even if I am upset, I know GW doesn't care cause I've been buying my secondary armies from them consistantly for the past few years).

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Dark Eldar will thrive when they are re-released, you can quote me on that.

reidy1113 wrote:I think the next 40K codecise to come out will be:

Dark Eldar
Inquisitor
Necron
Black Templars
Eldar
6th Ed Rulebook
Tau Empire

I'm not sure so don't quote me on this. This may be in the wrong order and there could possibly be some more inbetween. Any new codecise released between the end of this year and the release of the 6th Ed rulebook will not make much sense in 5th Ed rules but will when the 6th Ed rules come out. Again, not sure about that but it's what I think will happen.

The one problem with your list is that it has been repeatedly said that ALL codices will be redone before the next edition. Further out it's tough to guess how things would play out but Eldar and Tau will most likely be released near each other. Which will be first is hard to guess. There is also rumors about Chaos Legions from a while back that would be a good addition at the end of the 5th edition cycle for another Power Armor army since most space marines will have been completed by then. For 6th edition an easy starter set would be Chaos vs Space Marines - plus tons of people would buy it just to have one army since you can easily modify them into either Chaos or Loyal Space Marines.

rogueeyes wrote:The one problem with your list is that it has been repeatedly said that ALL codices will be redone before the next edition.

It has? Really? About the only thing GW has confirmed of late is that there will be no new races in the near future because they want to work on supporting all of the existing ones. As when they do is in relation to new Editions is completely up in the air.

Flashman wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:The one problem with your list is that it has been repeatedly said that ALL codices will be redone before the next edition.

It has? Really? About the only thing GW has confirmed of late is that there will be no new races in the near future because they want to work on supporting all of the existing ones. As when they do is in relation to new Editions is completely up in the air.

Actually it has been stated by a couple of the designers at gamedays. I'll have to do a search back through the forums and see if I can look it up.

i would love to see the oldest armies get their updates finally. I know how frustrating it was to wait for my Dark Angels codex - and we all know how that turned out! Hope that a redone DA codex comes quicker than the Dark Eldar had to wait for theirs.

[Mod Edit - No, for 2 reasons.]

I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

combatmedic wrote:I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

By that same token, we already have Codex: Melancholic Marines with a Terrible Secret.

At least BT have the potential for something mechanically distinct. What the hell does DA even have that couldn't be represented by C:SM with a few additional special characters?

All i want is a new Necron dex and plastic kits for alot of the models aswell as a new MC for them (so not much then haha). The DE codex does interest me more than another SM codex and im still a relative new comer to the hobby.

Ostrakon wrote:

combatmedic wrote:I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

By that same token, we already have Codex: Melancholic Marines with a Terrible Secret.

At least BT have the potential for something mechanically distinct. What the hell does DA even have that couldn't be represented by C:SM with a few additional special characters?

I'm a long time Dark Angels player and I would have gone for this in a heartbeat. The only thing that is really different about DAs is the chapter organization, but that really doesn't have much to do with the actual ForceOrg. A few special characters that allowed the deathwing and ravenwing as troops would have been all it really needed.

I'm split now over using the old codex or the new vanilla one. I'll probably use the old one for Deathwing and Ravenwing specific forces and the vanilla codex for straight up MEQ armies.

OK, we got the memo, a large number of players really dislike the number of marine variant codices. Thanks. Noted. Can we move on now, rather than continuing to make yet another rumor thread into a "Noes more Spaze Marinez" Thread. Sorry, but after reading over a hundred of these, even my cherub demeanor gets taxed.

Instead, if you really want to discuss the large number of variant marines and your grievances with such a marketing scheme, please make a separate thread in the 40K General Discussion. In fact, Alpharius why don't you just sticky it so that one thread may rule them all.

vitki wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

combatmedic wrote:I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

By that same token, we already have Codex: Melancholic Marines with a Terrible Secret.

At least BT have the potential for something mechanically distinct. What the hell does DA even have that couldn't be represented by C:SM with a few additional special characters?

I'm a long time Dark Angels player and I would have gone for this in a heartbeat. The only thing that is really different about DAs is the chapter organization, but that really doesn't have much to do with the actual ForceOrg. A few special characters that allowed the deathwing and ravenwing as troops would have been all it really needed.

I'm split now over using the old codex or the new vanilla one. I'll probably use the old one for Deathwing and Ravenwing specific forces and the vanilla codex for straight up MEQ armies.

The same could have been said with the Blood Angels PDF codex. Put a special character Dante in vanilla marines and all your jump units become troops, and the vanguards get feel no pain. Thats the problem people are having with the last DA codex, it completely took away everything they had going for them. The current codex is completely shameful.

Would I like to see a new Chaos book out? Definitely. they should have daemons back and be what they used to be. But I can name about 7 armies that need codexs before BT do.

And having never seen a BT player, EVER, and seeing the same BT box on the shelf for years shows no one cares about them.

Mock Heroic wrote:All i want is a new Necron dex and plastic kits for alot of the models aswell as a new MC for them (so not much then haha). The DE codex does interest me more than another SM codex and im still a relative new comer to the hobby.

Then I commend you for having the testicular fortitude to begin the hobby with a non-SM army. I believe you'll be a stronger player for it.

combatmedic wrote:
And having never seen a BT player, EVER, and seeing the same BT box on the shelf for years shows no one cares about them.

Because you and your area are indicative of the player base as a whole. Get over yourself.

I've seen and still do see plenty of BT armies. People still care about them, trust me.

Thanks Although i am doing a SM army as my second haha.

Though to be fair i think out of all the chapters with their own codexs BT and Gks interest me the most so i think ill still pick up whatever comes, whether it be DE, Necron, GK, SOB or BT.

combatmedic wrote:Would I like to see a new Chaos book out? Definitely. they should have daemons back and be what they used to be. But I can name about 7 armies that need codexs before BT do.

And having never seen a BT player, EVER, and seeing the same BT box on the shelf for years shows no one cares about them.

Didn't the LA battle bunker name BT the official in store army at the beginning of this year. And I see many BT players at that particular battle bunker. And though I vehemently disagree with your assessment of the update requirements of the various armies, I happen to despise most of the changes in the vanilla SM codex and don't want to see any of them carry over to my beloved boys in black (except maybe the new drop pod rules .

Archonate wrote:

Mock Heroic wrote:All i want is a new Necron dex and plastic kits for alot of the models aswell as a new MC for them (so not much then haha). The DE codex does interest me more than another SM codex and im still a relative new comer to the hobby.

Then I commend you for having the testicular fortitude to begin the hobby with a non-SM army. I believe you'll be a stronger player for it.

Do I get a prize for having gone from interested to burned-out on 40k and only bought one of those old half-squads of mSpace Marines, mainly for conversion parts, in addition to armies of Tyranids and Sisters?

combatmedic wrote:

vitki wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

combatmedic wrote:I refuse to wait 10 years for my Dark Angels to get updated, and it will be a even bigger slap in the face if they update the irrelevant black temps book before hand.

Their only reason for existing a few years ago was to take scouts in your tactical squad and more than one LRC. We have enough assaulty marine armies.

By that same token, we already have Codex: Melancholic Marines with a Terrible Secret.

At least BT have the potential for something mechanically distinct. What the hell does DA even have that couldn't be represented by C:SM with a few additional special characters?

I'm a long time Dark Angels player and I would have gone for this in a heartbeat. The only thing that is really different about DAs is the chapter organization, but that really doesn't have much to do with the actual ForceOrg. A few special characters that allowed the deathwing and ravenwing as troops would have been all it really needed.

I'm split now over using the old codex or the new vanilla one. I'll probably use the old one for Deathwing and Ravenwing specific forces and the vanilla codex for straight up MEQ armies.

The same could have been said with the Blood Angels PDF codex. Put a special character Dante in vanilla marines and all your jump units become troops, and the vanguards get feel no pain. Thats the problem people are having with the last DA codex, it completely took away everything they had going for them. The current codex is completely shameful.

Would I like to see a new Chaos book out? Definitely. they should have daemons back and be what they used to be. But I can name about 7 armies that need codexs before BT do.

And having never seen a BT player, EVER, and seeing the same BT box on the shelf for years shows no one cares about them.

I don't really think you could have reasonably done that with BA though. Their fluff would make them operate distinctively from other chapters.

DA fluff however... They're practically a codex chapter straight up, albeit with a pretty rich background. They don't have any weird gene-seed quirk that makes them act differently, or some kind of extradordinary-even-by-astartes-standard level of zeal that would need rules to represent them. Everything that makes DA interesting as a chapter has very little to do with what they do in battle.

Seriously, the only thing that merits an entire codex is their awesome background. Rules-wise the only thing to distinguish them would be Deathwing, Ravenwing, lots of heavy plasma, and maybe some Favored Enemy:CSM. Unless they retcon some things heavily, which is always possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mock Heroic wrote:Thanks Although i am doing a SM army as my second haha.

Though to be fair i think out of all the chapters with their own codexs BT and Gks interest me the most so i think ill still pick up whatever comes, whether it be DE, Necron, GK, SOB or BT.

Yeah, I started with 5E 'crons too. People at my LGS keep telling me how crazy and broken auto-glances were, but I'm pretty sure none of them passed a statistics class.

Be good to see a new DA codex that emphasises their supposed tactical & strategic strengths. Basically a more shooty Marine army (since the other 3 are all CC-oriented). Yes, give us Ravenwing and Deathwing armies, of course, but also give us power armoured troops with more or better plasma than usual (an HQ choice who made all plasma twin-linked would be handy...), and maybe with the option of 2 heavy weapons per tac squad...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:I agree how important it is to show GW that distributing some love to the non-power armored armies.

You do know that buying DE aren't the only option available, right?

You could start a brand new Nid army, pick up a Imperial Superheavy Company for Apocalypse, or simply jump into War of the Ring... Any of those choices would be more than acceptable as far as GW is concerned.

Key point of clarification: I am merely noting that there is a difference between "distributing some love to the non-power armored armies" and buying DE. DE are a (small) subset of the overall non-SM whole. A non-SM dollar is a non-SM dollar. I like non-SM stuff, too, and I think I've shown that by buying lots of Eldar, IG, Sisters, Inquisition, WFB, BFG, etc. including Dark Eldar (I own their Codex and models, TYVM). But if I wanted to send GW a message that non-SM should get more support, it'll be just as well noted by me adding more Eldar / Guard / Sisters / WFB / BFG / WotR whatever to the pile.

On to the comments!
____

Ostrakon wrote:This is about supporting a re-release of a Xeno army that should have gotten a crappy 4E codex like everyone else.

This is about showing them that Marines and their seemingly endless derivatives are not the only thing that can generate revenue for them.

Is me shelling out 200 bucks on DE stuff going to make them stop making every other release a MEQ release? Probably not.

But if players stepped up and actually supported GW doing something that doesn't suck it might influence their business practices a little bit.

Wouldn't it be downright awesome if we could get Codex: Hrud or Codex: Demiurg at some point? Or even Codex: Mechanicus?

DE *did* get an update, and don't you forget it or ignore it. See the update logo in the corner? Right!

I'll have you know I'm only buying the BA Codex, having skipped the models and SW entirely. Except for a couple Vindicators.

Given that MEQs make up about half of the current Codices, no, that won't change any time soon.

The overwhelming bulk of my recent purchases have been non-SM. Hasn't really seemed to catch GW's attention, tho.
____

Archonate wrote:But this is the first time I've actually seen somebody try to convince somebody else to not buy the new product.

Don't you want DE to sell like crazy?

I thought you wanted more GEQ armies...

Please re-read above. I never told him not to buy DE. I said there were other ways to accomplish the goal of showing love to non-PA.

I could care less how well DE sell, as I don't play them anymore, and have sold of the vast bulk of what I once owned, and am not inclined to restart what I've cycled through.

I want more GEQ armies, and having people spend more on Nids, Orks, Tau, and especially Guard & Eldars would certainly help!

____

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Dark Eldar will thrive when they are re-released, you can quote me on that.

GW hasn't re-released anything as a standing army as far as I can recall. Presumably, this could be a "test case" for re-releasing Chaos Dwarves / Dogs of War in WFB, along with Squats for 40k.

Tho, I do wonder, what if it doesn't take off?

Erasoketa wrote:

VikingScott wrote:^ yep. They are sob.

Thanks Sir. I don't know why people say they are Ecclesiarchy :S

Because the sisters of battle (Adeptus Sororitas) are the military arm of the Ecclesiarchy

ALL sisters are ecclesiarchy units.

Purge the Heretic wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:

VikingScott wrote:^ yep. They are sob.

Thanks Sir. I don't know why people say they are Ecclesiarchy :S

Because the sisters of battle (Adeptus Sororitas) are the military arm of the Ecclesiarchy
ALL sisters are ecclesiarchy units.

As he said. The book "Faith and Fire" gives you a good insight in Sororitas and Repentia. Repentia don't need a priest or inquisitor rulewise (as I said above), just a Mistress. Think of Repentia as Sisters who felt disgraced somehow and chose this path to ... well ... repent. Or as the website says:

Confession and penance are part of a Sister's everyday existence, those who fall short of the rigorous codes may find themselves banded into groups and led into battle in an attempt to earn redemption.

For the best Ecclesiarchy background information, look at the 2nd edition Sororitas Codex.