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Actually, I think the Borders vs Amazon example is a really excellent one for this. In fact it never really occurred to me just how much the two situations parallel each other, and why I stopped going to book stores.

Amazon always has the book I want, even if it is some obscure economist I have a man crush on. Borders is a huge pain for that, as they can only stock sufficiently popular books. If you have an interest in a broad but not terribly popular field it can be a real crap shoot.
There is a very nice feature of a physical book store in that you can walk in not knowing what you want and take a look at stuff. I have done that with various art/drawing books in the past. However, I find that most of the time anymore I am getting reading recommendations from other people on the internet, from blogs and the like, and every once in a while from Amazon itself suggesting things I didn't know existed, like companion books or other books from the same author. I never found book stores to be too handy in that sense.
Additionally there are the Kindle Books which are all kinds of nice. Generally carrying the Wealth of Nations around on one's back is fairly unpleasant. And again the used book section is phenomenal. Loeb Classic Library books such as Caesar's Gallic Wars (in original Latin and English) for .81$?! That's a 30$+ book most places.

Which makes me think of the other place I buy books periodically: used book stores. All the touchy looky of a book store at less price.

I think I would buy a lot more at local stores if they had the selection of an online retailer, or the price. Most of the time they have neither, and often can't muster up much service and friendliness. I am all for instant gratification, but driving to get a model they might not even have (while not being able to eye ball other models I might want) and paying more for the privilege is a bit much.

In a way, I almost would rather a store charge to play there, as I do like paying for what I use, and buying some paints and maybe a kit every time I go for a tournament or random game doesn't seem like a great way to do it for either of us.

Wehrkind wrote:Actually, I think the Borders vs Amazon example is a really excellent one for this. In fact it never really occurred to me just how much the two situations parallel each other

Yes, but in this case, Maelstrom seems to have been smacked for not being Borders, -or- Amazon, but B&N, A decent brick and mortar chain, with a well matched, and increasignly strong digital presence.

Amazon sell Battlefront products. Do they have a B+M store nobody told me about? Am I missing something here?

(And I mean the items sold by Amazon.co.Uk, not the ones supplied by various "shops" who may well have real shops attached.)

Lanceradvanced wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:Actually, I think the Borders vs Amazon example is a really excellent one for this. In fact it never really occurred to me just how much the two situations parallel each other

Yes, but in this case, Maelstrom seems to have been smacked for not being Borders, -or- Amazon, but B&N, A decent brick and mortar chain, with a well matched, and increasignly strong digital presence.

Oh yea, no doubt there. I meant in the general "Intarwebz stole my store!" debate.
I wonder if book stores are complaining that they offer places to read your books and meet new people who are interested in books, but people only care about price. That would be interesting to read. I guess it is the combination of store and free gaming club that most FLGS stores aim for that causes the issue.

Wehrkind wrote:

Lanceradvanced wrote:

Wehrkind wrote:Actually, I think the Borders vs Amazon example is a really excellent one for this. In fact it never really occurred to me just how much the two situations parallel each other

Yes, but in this case, Maelstrom seems to have been smacked for not being Borders, -or- Amazon, but B&N, A decent brick and mortar chain, with a well matched, and increasignly strong digital presence.

Oh yea, no doubt there. I meant in the general "Intarwebz stole my store!" debate.
I wonder if book stores are complaining that they offer places to read your books and meet new people who are interested in books, but people only care about price. That would be interesting to read. I guess it is the combination of store and free gaming club that most FLGS stores aim for that causes the issue.

For all that online shopping has its many advantages, I find there is nothing quite as satisfying as being able to sort through blisters (or books), rattle boxes, tilt them to see if you can see what bits are in it, flick through them and generally just have a good old rummage. Rummaging on the internet just doesn't... cut it. You can't touch or smell the things you buy. (I like the smell of books, not figures.)

Weird fetish aside, I do like the internet for precision buying.. getting exactly what you require...but real world shopping has a quality all of its own.

Still not sure why BF feel the need to be so bloody rude about Maelstrom providing both types though. Mind you, I remember Gord...

yeah,

ArbeitsSchu wrote:Amazon sell Battlefront products. Do they have a B+M store nobody told me about?...

This is a very interesting point...
edit: edit: ninja'd by Kanluwen below...

Panic...

ArbeitsSchu wrote:Amazon sell Battlefront products. Do they have a B+M store nobody told me about? Am I missing something here?

(And I mean the items sold by Amazon.co.Uk, not the ones supplied by various "shops" who may well have real shops attached.)

I looked at almost every entry for 'Flames of War' on Amazon.co.uk , and none of the models are sold by Amazon.

Some of the books are, yeah. But likely the books have different stock management in place.

I can only speak from my experiance and Maelstrom have always given a first class service. Whenever I want an item its the first place I check, I could shop around and sometimes do but they offer a price check, there is a lot to be said for a reliable service that delivers when they say they will, FLGS or online, I like to pay the right price and get it in my hands asap, some web stores have you waiting four weeks !

ArbeitsSchu wrote:
For all that online shopping has its many advantages, I find there is nothing quite as satisfying as being able to sort through blisters (or books), rattle boxes, tilt them to see if you can see what bits are in it, flick through them and generally just have a good old rummage. Rummaging on the internet just doesn't... cut it. You can't touch or smell the things you buy. (I like the smell of books, not figures.)

Weird fetish aside, I do like the internet for precision buying.. getting exactly what you require...but real world shopping has a quality all of its own.

Still not sure why BF feel the need to be so bloody rude about Maelstrom providing both types though. Mind you, I remember Gord...

That's a good point. I get my paper pulp fix sufficiently well when they come in the mail (often with the added excitement of "OOH! What did I order?! NEAT" due to poor memory) but I agree that purchasing is often more satisfying initially in person. So much so that I don't think I would even call it a fetish at this point. I have bought a lot models in person that I never would have looked at online, though the reverse is true too.
At the same time though, I think that when you know what you need (e.g. "4 LRs and 5 Chimeras please") the rummage part becomes less exciting. I really do appreciate stores like Showcase that stock more of the smaller companies' models that you are going to want to poke through, examine for scale etc. And nothing beats finding someone with a file box filled with DarkAge blisters at 40% off at a convention!

I think part of the big issue is that many stores are not fully aware of what value they really provide to customers, or are convinced it is something else entirely. I might argue a lot of companies in general have that issue when you get right down to it. Hell, looking at how poor Hollywood is at picking movies to make, or how bad FOX is about cancelling shows etc. probably is pretty damning evidence.

Interesting that BF have a different "sales pitch" for their books than their figures, if only passingly.

I noticed whilst reading WI (a publication firmly in bed with BF) that the back cover is a huge advert for Maelstrom which prominently mentions there being an "in-store" and that discounts between there and online are the same. Its gilding the lily to point it out I suspect, but here is yet another proof that Maelstrom are totally "B+M" compliant, and that BF are blowing smoke out of their collectives..in their own "house mag" of all places. Did someone just not brief the lawyers properly? Has Gordon spent too long playing with little lead men for his own good?

ArbeitsSchu wrote: BF are blowing smoke out of their collectives..in their own "house mag" of all places. Did someone just not brief the lawyers properly? Has Gordon spent too long playing with little lead men for his own good?

They are looking for an excuse to terminate the agreement, and this excuse was sought in bad faith. An excuse sounds better than "we have our reasons so we won't tell you so there"

severedblue wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote: BF are blowing smoke out of their collectives..in their own "house mag" of all places. Did someone just not brief the lawyers properly? Has Gordon spent too long playing with little lead men for his own good?

They are looking for an excuse to terminate the agreement, and this excuse was sought in bad faith. An excuse sounds better than "we have our reasons so we won't tell you so there"

One would have thought that they might seek a slightly more solid reason for doing so than one which is clearly so much toss.

Aaah commerce. It looks like Wayland are taking the opportunity to twist the knife

Wayland Games wrote:Your #1 Flames Of War Store!

If there's one game that revolutionised historical wargaming, it's Flames Of War.

The figures are fantastic, the game is fast, fun and competitive. Plus, with a dedicated paint range, getting true-to-life camo patterns and colour schemes couldn't be simpler.

There's even a selection of basecoat spray cans to help you paint your army perfectly and at speed!

Check out the full Flames Of War range for yourself to see what this great World War II wargame is all about.

Even hardcore Warhammer 40K fans will be tempted!

Plus, we have always offered free shipping on Flames of War, letting you buy as much or as little as you like without paying out for postage.

I don't think BF have acted honourably, but there is no honour when you need to cut someone's throat in the name of business.

Wayland Games wrote:
Your #1 Flames Of War Store!

... until we make some sort of imagined slight and BattleFront cuts off as well!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Wayland Games wrote:
Your #1 Flames Of War Store!

... until we make some sort of imagined slight and BattleFront cuts off as well!

Im interested to see the 'official' BF statement.

I meant the worst thin Maelstrom has ever done was mis-packing my paints and then crappy post-sale customer service...

Nevermind, it is all clear in this link:

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/downloads/Public_Statement_Regarding_Battlefront_Miniatures.pdf

That link was posted 5 pages ago...

Yeah but AvatarForm still has a Christmas had on his avatar, so he must be a little behind.