Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Brother SRM wrote:I'm glad my parents didn't drop me on my head when I was a child, or else I'd be making posts like the OP's.

Hey don't be putting us dropped children in the same category as him

The flat part of my head agrees with this.

Wardragoon wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:I'm glad my parents didn't drop me on my head when I was a child, or else I'd be making posts like the OP's.

Hey don't be putting us dropped children in the same category as him

Agreed, I was dropped on my head and I turned out just shoehorn cheese on toast.

Remember rule #1 guys.

SilverMK2 wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The person who made this thread has a true poet's soul. He's also insane.

Not insanity
Simply inspired rhetoric
Just hilarious

Can't read wall of text
Eyes glaze over from nonsense
Double-spaced, but why?

Monster Rain wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The person who made this thread has a true poet's soul. He's also insane.

Not insanity
Simply inspired rhetoric
Just hilarious

Can't read wall of text
Eyes glaze over from nonsense
Double-spaced, but why?

Written double-spaced
Gives emphasis to meaning
Nonsense compounded

SilverMK2 wrote:Remember rule #1 guys.

Hey I probably was dropped on my head, that or I act like it way too often, besides all my william shatner stuff should be considered a possible honor, hell I wouldnt mind being called william shatner If nothing else read my signature.

I see what you both did there...

Nerivant wrote:I see what you both did there...

This is a dropped on the head moment for me, what did I do?

Zakiriel wrote:Form and Function!

For example the drive system of a ship with largely dictate the rest of the ships design.

If you want your tanks to be able to fire defilade dictates that your tank will do so with a turret and gun system mounted up top and forward so as to be able to depress the gun and fire down at the valley and roads while your tank is more obscured to return fire by the angle of the hill your on.

Sloped armor provides more thickness to the face on angle = more protection.

Physics people, Physics.

Amen a touch more form and function for mechanical and biological units goes a long way to giving units credibility

Form and function is the difference between B movie and Global Icon

note : on the pages of legend aka fluff descriptions of greek monsters or otherwise and their associated artwork is always exaggerated. Transferring form novel to plastic or from comic to the big screen requires you to tune in to common sensibilities or your audience will evaporate. Unrealistic plastic is like wooden acting , its jarring to the sensibilities. The plastic should set the frame work for the imagination. Laid bare on the table as GW miniatures are they are also laid open to the same level of critique one would give movie special effects.

Godzilla style over the top dodgy effects is kinda fun , but western sensibilities need a little more maturity to be taken in.


Yes , high fantasy is one thing , but trying to shoot yourself in the foot with a gun longer than your leg has another name. Slapstick Comedy

Damn....I thought this thread was finally dead. It keeps resurrecting itself.

And please just tell us all what you mean by "NATO" style, its clear your dodging this question.

EDIT: ok I see that you eleborated on this for us.

well remember turrets recquire more power and hence more space, hence the reason we dont have an APC with a Cannon suitable for the Abrams, the LR is sloped in the front which is the direction its meant to take fire from

SilverMK2 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:The person who made this thread has a true poet's soul. He's also insane.

Not insanity
Simply inspired rhetoric
Just hilarious

Can't read wall of text
Eyes glaze over from nonsense
Double-spaced, but why?

Written double-spaced
Gives emphasis to meaning
Nonsense compounded

My eyes are bleeding
From this thread's inanity
yet still I read on.

Wardragoon wrote:

Nerivant wrote:I see what you both did there...

This is a dropped on the head moment for me, what did I do?

Not you, them. Haiku.

Nerivant wrote:

Wardragoon wrote:

Nerivant wrote:I see what you both did there...

This is a dropped on the head moment for me, what did I do?

Not you, them. Haiku.

as I already stated, dropped on head moment, but still, I feel kinda special for not catching it.

I have no issue with the Form of the Landraider aka world war one tank. It was a cool tank yesteryear, and it will still be cool tomorrow.

Note : The ww1 tank became a global icon long before the makers of warhammer were even born.

I do have issue with dropping a globally recognized icon from the past into a sci fi universe set 40,000 years in the future....the space marines deserve much much better,
Looking at the good artwork GW has come up with why are we still waiting for proper SM vehicles ?

Lets play spot the difference between a landraider and the ww1 tank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_World_War_I




If was designing the SM army and the boss came in and plonked that ww1 tank on my desk id give him a weird look.

Designer " so what you are saying is that you dont trust me to design a cool tank for the space marines ? ... what next spitfires for drop pods...get the flock out of here and let me get on with my job...designing cool stuff "

Kazerkinelite wrote:Damn....I thought this thread was finally dead. It keeps resurrecting itself.

Someone needs to give this thread the Chair.
It's getting tedious, infuriating and plain weird.

swuk wrote:I have no issue with the Form of the Landraider aka world war one tank. It was a cool tank yesteryear, and it will still be cool tomorrow.

Note : The ww1 tank became a global icon long before the makers of warhammer were even born.

I do have issue with dropping a globally recognized icon from the past into a sci fi universe set 40,000 years in the future....the space marines deserve much much better & looking at the good artwork they have come up with why are will still waiting for proper SM vehicles ?




If was designing the SM army and the boss came in and plonked that ww1 tanon my desk id give him a weird look.

Designer " so what you are saying is that you dont trust me to design a cool tank for the space marines ? ... what next spitfires fro drop pods...get the flock out of here and let me get on with my job...designing cool stuff "

First off, sir, you have brought me an untold amount of joy from your strange ranting and raving on these 8 pages and i would like to thank you.
secondly, please take more time to write your posts. I'm not perfect either, but i can barely read it and an often left wondering at your grasp at the english language.
I'm sure most people wouldn't like to argue with you, in fact most of them have taken your wild views as trolling and have responded to you with contempt. I on the other hand will argue, at risk of feeding the troll, because this thread is too funny to let die.

Onto the main point the asthetic of 40k is not for everyone, but many of their design decisions have come from the basic premises of 40k's lore. The land raider is certainly a great example of this as, and you have noticed this, it is clearly a copy of the mark 4 english tank from ww1. This invokes many images, this tank isn't a fancy piece of machinery; it like its predecessor is a lumbering behemoth. This makes the viewer wonder a few things about the universe of 40k; in short why such an old, unfuturistic tank in the far future.
Why? The Land Raider represents Imperial stagnation and an unwillingness to adapt. Much like their fear/hatred of the alien, the Imperium displaces a this same belief towards technology in their endless quests to preserve the old.
Simple things like this are why i like the model range of 40k
These are of course just my views and anyone can feel free to correct me; i know quite a bit of the lore, but by all means i am no expert.

-Joetaco

Monster Rain wrote:My eyes are bleeding
From this thread's inanity
yet still I read on.

Addiction sets in
This thread gifted from the gods
Internet train wreck

SilverMK2 wrote:Addiction sets in
This thread gifted from the gods
Internet train wreck

I don't know why I
Can't summon the energy
to click "unsubscribe."

This is terrible
This thread continues on yet
Ohh look a train wreck!

Gets better and better...

The battle of old vs new is valid and worth examining.

You will find the real reason behind many of GW decisions is not based upon backbreaking work to bend the plastic to meet the fluff.

On the face of it , much of GW efforts in miniatures is cut n paste...too much !


The tooling cost of 1 tank design vs another tank design changes little. ....it is not cheap to tool up. New models are expensive to introduce. Where i feel that GW has let itself down is in the design stage. What ive seem come off the production line is ok to good 'build quality' wise. But they should of spent a few more crates of beer on the design side of things before committing to mass plastic.

No company is perfect. The bulk GW designs DO need lifting to a higher level. Tooling only last so long before it has to be redone. I think it has been too easy to keep churning out the same old thing.

I bet the LOTR series is responsible for distracting GW away from polishing whfb and wh40k

Coming in fresh and with a keen eye for good design and a nose for corporate PR im kind of shocked and disappointed at the 'mild mess" GW model lineup represents. I feel its suffering from death of a 1000 cuts , lots of minor flaws adding up to something far less inspiring than it has the potential to be...ok pathetic is too flamey a phrase perhaps. But its what rolled of my tongue at the time. There are a lot & lots of faults on the plastic side of things, its a lack of vision and direction rather than the odd slip of a pen or a sculptors knife. Its only when you look closely you see what that a large proportion of their plastic is in a pickle.

Im not going to change the world sitting at my keyboard. The discussion is interesting. excluding the one liners, lol.
But if i get the feel that changing GW lineup is going to be worthwhile i may well pay them a visit. I know whats cool , I know what sells. I also know whats shallow and whats deep.Though i dont think GW head is on the railroad tracks right now.( listening for the next train) They are contracting their operation. The initial signs look overly defensive , BUT they know they need to change even if they are not openly willing to admit.

Who knows, a whole bunch of little changes could breath some new life and fresh air into the table top world.

DrownedRat117 wrote:Gets better and better...

Better and better
Drowned this thread will never be
Screw five syllables


all joking aside I think we are just using the thread as something to do, and haiku works


Automatically Appended Next Post:

swuk wrote:The battle of old vs new is valid

But you will find the real reason behind many of GW decisions is not based upon backbreaking work to bend the plastic to meet the fluff.

On the face of it , much of GW efforts in miniatures is cut n paste...too much !


The tooling cost of 1 tank design vs another tank design changes little. ....it is not cheap to tool up. New models are expensive to introduce. Where i feel that GW has let itself down is in the design stage. What ive seem come off the production line is ok to good 'build quality' wise. But hey should of spent a few more crates of beer on the design side of things.

No company is perfect. The bulk GW designs need lifting to a higher level. Tooling only last so long before it has to be redone. I think it has been too easy to keep churning out the same old thing.

I bet the LOTR series is responsible for distracting GW away from polishing whfb and wh40k

Coming in fresh and with a keen eye for good design and a nose for corporate PR im kind of shocked and disappointed at the 'mild mess" GW model lineup represents. I feel its suffering from death of a 100 cuts , lots of minor flaws adding up to something far less inspiring than it has the potential to be.

Im not going to change the world sitting at my keyboard. The discussion is interesting. excluding the one liners, lol.
But if i get the feel that changing GW lineup is going to be worthwhile i may well pay them a visit. I know whats cool , I know what sells. I also know whats shallow and whats deep.Though i dont think GW head is on the railroad tracks right now.( listening for the next train) They are contracting their operation. The initial signs look overly defensive , BUT they know they need to change even if they are not openly willing to admit.

Who knows, a whole bunch of little changes could breath some new life and fresh air into the table top world.

Well a piece of possibly constructive advice is to look at forgeworld and Imperial Armour stuff, that way there you can get some possibly interesting stuff most players havent seen before, it seems much of the problem is you see certain things way too much, hell if someone can proxy to scale and rules I would not have a problem with playing against them, for instance if someone were to make their own Land Raider that is the same hieght and has the sponsons I would be completely fine with the different look.

I'd join in, but I've forgotten the Haiku technicalities from year 4..

DrownedRat117 wrote:I'd join in, but I've forgotten the Haiku technicalities from year 4..

5 syllables
7 syllbales
5 syllabales

Agreed , if you dont like it MOD it

All the same , i do wish they had a wider line up and tighter product lines.

There are at least a dozen strong themes they could roll out. Perhaps if they did that then there would be an army for everyman & people would have far less reason grumble about alien races on spindly legs with over sized guns with a hodge podge arsenal.

I can live with SM and prolly IG, the rest of the armies i find totally uninspiring in the main. When i do build an army i tend to build huge ones im having second thought about doing this with 40k

swuk wrote:The battle of old vs new is valid and worth examining.
You will find the real reason behind many of GW decisions is not based upon backbreaking work to bend the plastic to meet the fluff.
On the face of it , much of GW efforts in miniatures is cut n paste...too much !
The tooling cost of 1 tank design vs another tank design changes little. ....it is not cheap to tool up. New models are expensive to introduce. Where i feel that GW has let itself down is in the design stage. What ive seem come off the production line is ok to good 'build quality' wise. But they should of spent a few more crates of beer on the design side of things before committing to mass plastic.
No company is perfect. The bulk GW designs DO need lifting to a higher level. Tooling only last so long before it has to be redone. I think it has been too easy to keep churning out the same old thing.
I bet the LOTR series is responsible for distracting GW away from polishing whfb and wh40k
Coming in fresh and with a keen eye for good design and a nose for corporate PR im kind of shocked and disappointed at the 'mild mess" GW model lineup represents. I feel its suffering from death of a 1000 cuts , lots of minor flaws adding up to something far less inspiring than it has the potential to be...ok pathetic is too flamey a phrase perhaps. But its what rolled of my tongue at the time. There are a lot & lots of faults on the plastic side of things, its a lack of vision and direction rather than the odd slip of a pen or a sculptors knife. Its only when you look closely you see what that a large proportion of their plastic is in a pickle.
Im not going to change the world sitting at my keyboard. The discussion is interesting. excluding the one liners, lol.
But if i get the feel that changing GW lineup is going to be worthwhile i may well pay them a visit. I know whats cool , I know what sells. I also know whats shallow and whats deep.Though i dont think GW head is on the railroad tracks right now.( listening for the next train) They are contracting their operation. The initial signs look overly defensive , BUT they know they need to change even if they are not openly willing to admit.
Who knows, a whole bunch of little changes could breath some new life and fresh air into the table top world.

There really doesn't have to be a wide range of new models. The universe of 40k hasn't expanded much timewise so why in a universe of stagnation would there be radical redesigning of things.
I'm by no means an expert of such things, but all tanks look really similar to me. Looking at the panzers of ww2 germany and looking at the modern tanks of today; if the design works why change it?
So looking at the iconic Space Marines; 3 vehicles are different Land Raiders (crusader, redeemer, godhammer), the same durable, powerful frame tooled for multiple purposes. 5 are made off of the rhino (razorback, predator, vindicator, whirlwind). Aside from the argument that the imperium doesn't invent new things all the time; similar shapes add cohesion to the army. Different shapes are like different colors; you can't have them all in anything without it looking bad. Idk know anything about fashion, but i know your not supposed to mix patterns (or at least not wear plaid with stripes and spots); consider the same thing in your models, why have every vehicle look radically different it'll make it seem like a hodpodge of different settings.

Consider the natural/ universal beauty of simplicty before you discount it as boring.

-Joetaco

This thread is a gift
From the rant gods above
Long live the O P

swuk wrote:Agreed , if you dont like it MOD it

All the same , i do wish they had a wider line up and tighter product lines.

There are at least a dozen strong themes they could roll out. Perhaps if they did that then there would be an army for everyman & people would have far less reason grumble about alien races on spindly legs with over sized guns with a hodge podge arsenal.

I can live with SM and prolly IG, the rest of the armies i find totally uninspiring in the main.

Ok, time for some on-topicness (Shock horror!)

Really, if GW somehow managed to do an army that fit every small groups ideals, the company would melt down. You cannot just roll out another dozen armies, and of all companies that wouldn't. GW is at the top. They probably wouldn't if they could.
That is new fluff, 12 times over,
12 new model ranges (Considering one model take around 1-2 years to perfect),
12 new army books (Try to make that unique..)
12 new angry things for space marines to shout
12 new ideas (Which would probably be the hardest part. Let's be honest, they've gone as far as swarming space bug dinosaurs, they must be running low..)
12 new areas of grumbling. Nothings perfect...