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https://www.baccus6mm.com/

Take a look around. The models Peter makes are absolutely fantastic - just look at those Romans! - and he sells army packs for games like DBA, FoG, and WMA.

As for Epic, well, I know how you feel. I suppose the fact that GW ignores its specialist games could give us some leeway. And, of course, picking up a full sized army on eBay for dirt cheap is always a plus!

Ah, Specialist Games. I've played all of 'em except Epic, Warmaster and War of the Ring, actually. So, so good. Necromunda is probably my favorite, followed very closely by BFG. It's a shame GW hates them almost as much as they hate their customers.

Happily, Infinity looks like a fine substitute for Necromunda, albeit without the semi-RPG elements Necromunda had, and Firestorm Armada would do nicely in place of BFG.

Browsing over Baccus now, I recall that the owner of one of the FLGS from back home recommended DBA.


EDIT: Hmm, these are actually quite nice. The thought of painting them terrifies me, but they're pretty interesting.

Hail Caesar by Warlord Games. Fun, flexible mass-battle system. It's written for Ancients, but might work well for Fantasy battles also. Been busy giving my money to Architects of War (Musketeer Miniatures, Perry Miniatures, Warlord Games), Miniature Design Studio and Warweb (Crusader).

Im going for a tournament at the end of summer then im finishing my dark elves and if by then i have found a new game and a place to play it then i will move on.

I walked away from Fantasy right after 8th edition came out. The only GW game that interests me at all is War of the Ring, and they haven't done anything with it for a while.

I have returned to historicals. Black Powder is fun and flexible and doesn't involve points. Many manufacturers are making nice plastic 28mm historicals- and their prices, well, let me just say that as much as I like WotR, I can't imagine paying the retail price for a GW miniature ever again.

Thats an interesting side topic for the thread, and I wish I had put it directly into the original question: What systems / games are people "thinking" of jumping into.

Coming away from GW, I did look at Privateer Press, but something about it just didn't stick. But the systems that really have my eye right now:

Malifaux
Urban War
Darkage
Warpath (I guess)

That's in addition to actively collecting for:

Anima Tactics
Infinity
Sedition Wars

Add to that all the special "one off" buys while slipping through Coolminiornot and sites similar, it all adds up.

In the end, I guess I'll need to make a decision to fix on one or two main games, and in terms of collecting, shop pretty and only purchase the minis that are really pressing my buttons.

That's one thing I'd say for GW and THE Hobby, although the costs are bizarre, it gave your spending some focus....my current "stance" is in fact costing me more than if I stayed with GW.....

Well, currently playing:
Hordes
40K
Fantasy
Want to start playing:
KoW
Historicals (Of some description, maybe WAB)
Warpath? (maybe)
Infinity (maybe)
Uncharted Seas

Well, the great thing about GW is that I learned assembly
line painting from...dakka users. I never learned it from GW
directly, but I learned it in order to play their games.

Well not much of my spending has hit the GW coffers since they invoked the insanity. I spent a chunk of money to buy a nice airbrush and will probably be spending more in the upcoming weeks to buy support materials for said airbrush. Will be using the brush to get all fancy on my very old Eldar crescent tanks, as well as starting 2D airbrush art and some old anime resin pieces I’ve got. I bought a Finecast Lelith, that’s it, although I do want a FW Avatar and almost-so f’ning close-bought one.

I want to get back into HeavyGear, I think blitz is the most recent incarnation. I really loved the HG world as presented in the 1rst edition books. Blitz is a smaller scale than the old minis I currently have so it’s gonna be a rebuy. I pretty much have to buy 2 armies too because none of my friends, and no one I know in my area plays. But whatever, I like the little guys.

Also talked with some friends about Infinity. I’ve always been a PanOceanic fanguy. Loved their big Cutters and a lot of their models appeal to me. Right now the guys have the rules and are proxying the models. Buying will ensue sometime soon.

Some Anima Tactics models and a couple of Cryx Bane Knights have made their way onto the painting table. AT minis have such character and life, I like about 5 out of every 6 in their line. Bane Knights are just badass from head to toe, I’d proxy them for necron warriors if I had like 30 more.

That’s it on my front.

-MightyG

Have

Anima Tactics
Mostly Church and Samael with a fair few to finish.
Need to get my Sammies a leader and there is a weird summoner dude I fancy

Ganesha Games:
Songs of Blades and Heroes
Songs of Drums and Shakos (not played no models )
Fear and Faith
Kooky Teenage Monster Hunters (Not played yet)
Mutants and Death Ray Guns

Am making some Steampunky figures for Fear and Faith and some Mutants
All other figures are being proxied from what we got.
Anima Tactics as Vamps for example
I love the fact we can use whatever to play and can generate our own stats if needs be.

Am seriously thinking of getting
Relics
cos we love stitchpunk soldiers and the scawwy faeries!
Freebooters Fate
Pirates and a totally different game play

Would like to get but will never have the time/money
Malifaux
Infinity
Super Dungeon Explore
Dark Ages
Cutlass
the list goes on

Back playing board games for a while (Memoir44 especially). Painting some Everblight. Basically stopped playing GW games for the time being - just a bad taste in my mouth after all the recent policy changes. Stopped buy GW except for models to paint and may get some of their scenery pieces.

I plan on going away to start malifaux but i cant find anyone/anywhere to play it.

haloreach4ever wrote:I plan on going away to start malifaux but i cant find anyone/anywhere to play it.

Where's here? We have a group starting in the Midlands....I'm Arcanist, and we have a confirmed Neverborn!

Manchester, i have rasputina and a few other guys.

Ouch, Manchester is a long drive for a Game of Malifaux....tempted though

I should probably contribute something apropos to the original post.

Well, I've not jumped ship. I still love the 40K universe, and still love a lot of the models GW produce, but I feel like my buying from them is drawing to a close, or at least coming to a greatly slowed rate.

In the last few months I have started playing Warmachine and Dystopian Wars. I'll probably not branch out much further, as the gameplay is actually less important to me. I'm all about the miniatures. I imagine that, soon, the majority of my purchasing will be one off miniatures for use in roleplaying games.

I've bought $40 of stuff. The magic deck and templates for storm of magic. That's been it for my GW purchases. Bought lots of Menoth, a little Skorne and going to be getting more Menoth soon. Also been digging through ebay for old chainmail miniatures, god I love those. Played 1 game of Fantasy and a ton of Warmahordes.

Still playin. I didn't really "buy" a ton, just splurge every few months. The price hike was steep, but I feel everyone else is doing the work for me So I still buy once in a while, but play heavily

There will always be the baby's about prices and quitters, I'm 16 (2 months shy of 17), And I can still afford 40k. I'm a die hard. I won't simply quit because of a price hike...pfft. thats just really idiotic if you ask me. (You dont need to buy more models, just stick with the ones you got and keep playing fantasy or 40k) dont go and have a huge sike because of prices being raised....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is such a thing called 2nd hand...and Ebay..and for us Kiwi's TRADME!

Rogueyopants wrote:There will always be the baby's about prices and quitters, I'm 16 (2 months shy of 17), And I can still afford 40k. I'm a die hard. I won't simply quit because of a price hike...pfft. thats just really idiotic if you ask me. (You dont need to buy more models, just stick with the ones you got and keep playing fantasy or 40k) dont go and have a huge sike because of prices being raised....

People didn't change or try new game systems just because of
prices. Price, gameplay, business decisions, and product quality were
all concerns. People weren't getting value for their minis or they saw
value in other companies. Walking into a thread to call everyone
"babies" isn't really a good way to get along, especially when you
don't understand what's happening.

I've put my money and time into Kings of War, loving every minute of it!

I keep looking at my GW stuff and thinking 'I ought to sell this', rather than 'I ought to get of my fat @55 and finish this'

If I can get a better job then I'm thinking seriously about Malifaux too...

Rogueyopants wrote:There will always be the baby's about prices and quitters, I'm 16 (2 months shy of 17), And I can still afford 40k. I'm a die hard. I won't simply quit because of a price hike...pfft. thats just really idiotic if you ask me. (You dont need to buy more models, just stick with the ones you got and keep playing fantasy or 40k) dont go and have a huge sike because of prices being raised....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is such a thing called 2nd hand...and Ebay..and for us Kiwi's TRADME!

You're 16 (2 months shy of 17), sorry "mate", but you have no concept of the "real world". I'm glad you can still afford 40K, but you will soon learn that indulgence in a fantasy world is exactly that....an indulgence. When you grow up, and have bills to pay, a relationship with a real woman, and are maybe....maybe....able to father children, you'll realise just how much of an indulgence spending on a fantasy world is.

Don't get me wrong, we all have the choice to partake of a hobby or not.....but those "babies" as you call them, need to weigh up wether buying that Landraider is more important then buying one of the other million things that pull at an adults finances. People are complaining, amongst other things, about GW not seeming to realise that the product it sells isn't a necessity, and people are amazed at the audacity of GW to demand a year on year increase in prices in spite of where their product will fall in many peoples list of priorities.

You sir, are the target audience for GW, so it's no surprise you feel the way you do. The only thing you probably have to worry about is what colour to paint your next Forge-World tank.....awesome! I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you do pay for your own hobby, if you don't you have even less right to make the statements you have made....

Like I said, when you grow up, you may change your tune.....on the flip side, you might be one of "those" people for whom WH40K is "reality" and you may forego a relationship with a woman (or man, depending on your frame of mind), ignore paying the bills, and continue to be a "die hard" and give GW all your....wealth.....either way, good luck with that!

Rogueyopants-

Being unable to to buy the models is a very small reason peope leave. I'm sure the majority of people on Dakka (they have a pc and electricity after all) could buy a GW army if they really desired. The point is while we could pay their over the top prices we don't feel we should. GW aren't the only company out there and they aren't even the best.

Personally the cost is irelevant. If 40k was my favourite game (wargaming being my main hobby) I would pay double what they charge (or higher) if it was the only way I could play. However GWs bad treatment of it's customers and obvious lack of interest in maintaining the game at a decent level have really lowered my interests. I just don't enjoy it as much.

I have taken a two teared approach.

First off I STARTED a new army. Pre Heresy Thousands Sons. I just couldn't resist the call of a new hobby challenge. I did buy many parts from supporting companies such as Scibor, Kromlech, and Chapterhouse. Looking back I think these other companies may have gotten the bulk of my hobby dollars.

What the price increse did do is make me look else where. I actually started hobbying with various space ship models. That is where I cut my teeth. So I have just ordered the rule book for Firestorm Armada and some starter fleets are in my future. Besides the obvious appeal of friggin space combat with gigantic ships the low cost and quick game length drew me in. Now if I can find a tournament scene to get into, or make one up myself then I will be golden.

Future plans for me will be to take a look at the Necrons when they come out. If the still appeal then maybe I'll bite. I can tell you I already sold my Daemon army, Sisters of Battle and Tyranids. It looks like Dark Eldar are going that way too.

It looks like I will be straying away from GW more then I would have but they still will be in the back of my mind like that girl who was great in bed but just impossible to live with. But you bet I still remember her number!

I haven't touched a GW model since I vowed I wouldn't. I now have two 50 point Warmachine armies that I didn't at the start of the summer, and I couldn't be happier.

4M2A wrote:Rogueyopants-

Being unable to to buy the models is a very small reason peope leave. I'm sure the majority of people on Dakka (they have a pc and electricity after all) could buy a GW army if they really desired.

Not strictly true. The new 'RoW trade embargo' will have effectively killed the hobby for any ex-pats living in Asia who don't have an official GW store in their country (anywhere other than Japan or China effectively). IMO it's snuffed out any chance of the hobby growing in these regions, as before a lot of locals have been brought into the game through gaming with ex-pats (who used the likes of Wayland and Maelstrom for their orders).

You can still buy from GW I suppose via mail order, but again it's the whole "200% more expensive than anywhere else" problem, far beyond the cut off price for most people, currently being experienced by Australians and New Zealanders.

4M2A is spot on. I'm quite sure most of us could afford to buy GW armies even with their price increase (well, maybe not Aussies). But it's a matter of principle. GW clearly does not respect its customers.

There's a saying "you attract more flies with honey than vinegar." In this case that means communication with customers, letting us know what's coming, offering deals, and listening to feedback. GW does none of these things. Damn near every other company does. Corvus Belli, Mantic, and other companies all give the impression that they care about their games, appreciate their customers, and want to create excellent games. GW has made it clear that all they want is money and don't care about any of those things.

GW has made it quite clear that to them, customers are walking wallets, to be drained of cash and discarded. Other companies are actually interested in repeat business and customer loyalty.

And even if price was the only issue, look at it this way; a competitive army from GW will run you $600 USD or more. Other companies? A full Infinity force is $100 or so. Warmachine and Hordes run 200 to 300. Dystopian Wars is, what, $150 or so? These may contain less models than a GW army, but what about an an army from Mantic which will have around as many? $300.

And consider that Australians pay something like 60% more for GW products... So now a full GW army is more than $950 AUD, but they're going to pay roughly US prices for any other system.

I have not bought another GW model or rule book. Looked into Malifaux and got the rule book and some test games in. I am liking it. Gw gave me a little mahogany with the Sisters codex, then Lorania Bobit'd me with the White Dwarf Been happily spening my gaming cash on non GW.

Ratbot, it's the fact that GW does not acknowledge any competition in the market that leads them to go on as they do though. If you look at other companies who have enjoyed a monopoly then it's possible to draw comparisons to their behaviour.

Rick Priestly said this during that radio interview he gave when he left GW, and it's the reason the customer base is just being fed regurgitated rules and background on a 3 or 4 yearly cycle (for the most part), with the odd new model or piece of artwork thrown in. And if we honestly look at 40k, fans have been essentially playing the same game for the past 15 years, with a few tweaks of the rules which make the game play slightly differently. I think it's the reason that so many veterans, when playing outside of GW's games for the first time, have had such a positive reaction to the likes of Infinity and Warmachines - it offers something new and dynamic, a new experience, rather than the stagnation of you and your mate setting up 24" apart and rolling to see who goes first. When I played Infinity for the first few times it felt like such a wonderfully fresh experience - it reminded me of the times when I was a child and first picked up GW's own games, but repetition of the same thing had made me slightly listless even without fully realising why, and my gaming hobby had suffered because of it.

Although GW are still the biggest company in the field, the situation is changing and while I can't see anyone eclipsing them, they will at least be eating into the companies profits. More and more FLGS are featuring other games as their premier system, and the effect will act like an epidemic as more and more gamers play other system and in turn pass on their experiences to other players.

At the moment I think GW don't feel the need to break any new ground because financially such a thing would be expensive. Even the R&D department of the company has been reduced, and we are left with a slow dribble of material that just writes the same thing in a different way (with a good bit of copy of copy and paste), and with the exception of DE a handful of new kits with each release. Maybe the encroaching battle with other companies will force GW to get its ass into gear - start making use of their wonderful IP and years of experience, and give us some new challenges and experiences. I read that Mantic's Dwarf King's Hold sold out of it's initial run of 100,000 copies. There is still a massive market for board games, so why not make use of some of their previous releases? Let the games designers exercise their talent and make something new out of the IP?

I think all in all it can only be a good thing for the wargaming and modelling hobby, and maybe finally the company that did so much to introduce people to this pastime can come back to it's old stomping ground and help pull back some of the customers they have lost.

Rogueyopants wrote:There will always be the baby's about prices and quitters, I'm 16 (2 months shy of 17), And I can still afford 40k. I'm a die hard. I won't simply quit because of a price hike...pfft. thats just really idiotic if you ask me. (You dont need to buy more models, just stick with the ones you got and keep playing fantasy or 40k) dont go and have a huge sike because of prices being raised....

The only "baby" thus far is you. Many of the folks in this thread have been playing LONGER then you have been alive, including myself. Prices are only one component of the whole package. PP's prices arent cheap for example, but I get much more value for my dollars then GW.....A warjack/warbeast or unit is still useful, with just changing the caster......

There is such a thing called 2nd hand...and Ebay..and for us Kiwi's TRADME!

Yes yes, some of use ARE aware of the various options. In fact some of us have been doing so over half your age....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote: And if we honestly look at 40k, fans have been essentially playing the same game for the past 15 years, with a few tweaks of the rules which make the game play slightly differently.

Small quibble-More like 10 years. Rogue trader and 2nd edition were very different from each other, and 2nd ed was different in many ways from 3rd on folward. From 3rd to 5th current is more like the same game with different tweeks. 2nd was more different- in fact more like necromunda.