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Psienesis wrote:I'm not certain why the definition of Preceptory contains mention of containing convents

I'm going to quickly narrate what I'm doing right now.

goto Google.com
"define:convent"
enter
Result:

con·vent/ˈkänvent/Noun
1. A Christian community under monastic vows, esp. one of nuns.
2. A school, esp. one for girls, run by such a community

Click on "merriam-webster"
Result:

a local community or house of a religious order or congregation; especially : an establishment of nuns

A local establishment of Sisters housed in a specific, permanent place is a convent.

Yes, I know what a convent is in real life. What WH40k considers a Convent, however, seems to be much different, as the nuns in our world don't strap on armor and go off fighting wars. Or even train to do such. Also, it seems, nuns of our world can be absolutely faithless, and yet remain in the service. Not so with the Sororitas.

Again, I think the use of "convents" in the definition of "Prefectory", is a misuse of the word within the setting, and is simply meant to say "when Sisters of Battle from a number of different holy sites gather, they form a Prefectory, numbering up to 1000 Sisters".

Otherwise, the Convents on Terra and Ophelia VII can't possibly hold as many sisters as they are said to, as a Prefectory only holds 1000 Sisters, and is made up of lots of Convents... of which there are 2. Unless, of course and again, their use of the word in this meaning is not a reference to the named Convents in the setting, but simply a short-hand reference to a gang of nuns.

Psienesis wrote:Yes, I know what a convent is in real life. What WH40k considers a Convent, however, seems to be much different

No it isn't.

The location Cain visited in the fifth book was a convent.

The problem with this "Chaos s,o,b" is that people don't understand that only 1 Sister ever fall to Chaos, ever.

And now I read some Warhammer fan comic were Space Wolves help Sister to fight against Chaos Marines of Slaanesh. Then in one moment Chaos Lord converted Cannones into Slaanesh minion in just few seconds?

If Cannones falls that fast then other Sisters will just fall faster.
http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/2011/02/wolf-sister.html

Brother Coa wrote:The problem with this "Chaos s,o,b" is that people don't understand that only 1 Sister ever fall to Chaos, ever.

And now I read some Warhammer fan comic were Space Wolves help Sister to fight against Chaos Marines of Slaanesh. Then in one moment Chaos Lord converted Cannones into Slaanesh minion in just few seconds?

If Cannones falls that fast then other Sisters will just fall faster.
http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/2011/02/wolf-sister.html

Some very nice artwork and could be a fun read but not sure many people will accept it as definative

I really think a Chaos SoB is more the stuff of a Lost and the Damned special character than something of a concept for a new faction or even a chaos unit.

I only have one SoB model, I got it when GW made a mistake with my order and they sent me a bunch of misc. stuff to make it up to me... I converted it to be the champion of my slanneshi squad.

I think those two ideas are really as far as you can take a Chaos SoB concept while staying true to the fluff.

Psienesis wrote:Again, I think the use of "convents" in the definition of "Prefectory", is a misuse of the word within the setting, and is simply meant to say "when Sisters of Battle from a number of different holy sites gather, they form a Prefectory, numbering up to 1000 Sisters".

It's been like this in the 2E Codex, but the meaning of the term "convent" changed in the Witch Hunters Codex (taking on the meaning of any Sororitas base rather than just the two primary ones). Thus, the confusion is understandable, but we can only adapt to how GW uses the term...

Mr Morden wrote:Some very nice artwork and could be a fun read but not sure many people will accept it as definative

Couldn't have said it better - I really like the drawing style (minus those dreaded heels on the Sisters) though.

But really, of all Chapters, Space Wolves allying with SoB? As far as I recall, those two armies have fought against each other in the past, and still have some scores to settle.
Sounds a lot like wishful thinking for giving that Wolf Marine a chick for a sidekick (that cover...). Just another way of how the Sisters are abused - though this time at least it's just fanwork.

PS: Every time Cain gets mentioned in relation to Sororitas fluff, the Emperor kills a kitten.

As said before - there are two main options I feel:

1. A Chaos Champion taunting and mocking the Imperium by garbing his followers in armour resembling the SOB.

2. Tainted or corupted SOB

I would go with 1 - could have some good fluff


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lynata wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Again, I think the use of "convents" in the definition of "Prefectory", is a misuse of the word within the setting, and is simply meant to say "when Sisters of Battle from a number of different holy sites gather, they form a Prefectory, numbering up to 1000 Sisters".

It's been like this in the 2E Codex, but the meaning of the term "convent" changed in the Witch Hunters Codex (taking on the meaning of any Sororitas base rather than just the two primary ones). Thus, the confusion is understandable, but we can only adapt to how GW uses the term...

Mr Morden wrote:Some very nice artwork and could be a fun read but not sure many people will accept it as definative

Couldn't have said it better - I really like the drawing style (minus those dreaded heels on the Sisters) though.

But really, of all Chapters, Space Wolves allying with SoB? As far as I recall, those two armies have fought against each other in the past, and still have some scores to settle.
Sounds a lot like wishful thinking for giving that Wolf Marine a chick for a sidekick (that cover...). Just another way of how the Sisters are abused - though this time at least it's just fanwork.

PS: Every time Cain gets mentioned in relation to Sororitas fluff, the Emperor kills a kitten.

Just read the comic through - some lovely artwork really....... also interesting idea re the brother / sister relationship in both senses (blood and their organisational termonology) as I am not sure how many SOB have come from Fenris before . I think its normally off limits to other organisations for recruitment but perhaps not....will certianly check it out now to see how the story evolves.

re allies - well they get a frosty reception from the cannoness - as in we don't need you and Space Wolves will fight alongside Dark Angels if they have to............

re Cain - we have some good discussions before over at FFG under my other forum name..........Da Boss

the SOB in Duty Calls are very much those of the standard fluff in all ways as far as I can tell - I think a certain Sister in one of the other novels colours your perception of their depicition in the novels a little bit?

Mr Morden wrote:I am not sure how many SOB have come from Fenris before

Apparently, at least three entire Orders of Sisters Militant - which went to Fenris in reaction to the Wolves having, without warning, shot down some ships carrying Ecclesiarchy clerics with a mission of peaceful investigation into the Chapter's rites. Of course the Sisters, just like the Imperial Navy and the Guard and pretty much anyone else who ever dared to challenge the Wolves, don't stand a chance and it takes the SW just three weeks to wipe the floor with them.
Hence my suspicion that the Sisterhood would regard the SW with even less amiability than other Marine Chapters, and that's got to mean something.

Mr Morden wrote:re Cain - we have some good discussions before over at FFG under my other forum name..........Da Boss

Hmm, I vaguely recall the name ... it's been some time.

Mr Morden wrote:the SOB in Duty Calls are very much those of the standard fluff in all ways as far as I can tell - I think a certain Sister in one of the other novels colours your perception of their depicition in the novels a little bit?

The one that gets pulled every single time as an "example" when the question of Sororitas chastity pops up, yeah. I haven't heard anything about that other book.

It's not just this aspect, though. The apparently rather easy corruptability (which is in direct contrast to what the Codex says) is another, and this gets featured far more often ... even in those few novels that at least end up displaying the personality of the Sisters in a manner that is consistent with what GW has written. I have to say that these cases are easier to stomach, though, for at those still preserve the unique aspect of what it means to be a Sororitas - in comparison to robbing them of their identity and their "grimdark" by making them act just like any other human.
That's just not how such high degrees of indoctrination and religious zeal work. The SoB are not Sunday School Girls in power armour.

Oh well. At least I apparently don't have to accept such things as overriding what GW actually wrote. :S

Lynata wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:I am not sure how many SOB have come from Fenris before

Apparently, at least three entire Orders of Sisters Militant - which went to Fenris in reaction to the Wolves having, without warning, shot down some ships carrying Ecclesiarchy clerics with a mission of peaceful investigation into the Chapter's rites. Of course the Sisters, just like the Imperial Navy and the Guard and pretty much anyone else who ever dared to challenge the Wolves, don't stand a chance and it takes the SW just three weeks to wipe the floor with them.
Hence my suspicion that the Sisterhood would regard the SW with even less amiability than other Marine Chapters, and that's got to mean something.

Ah not gone there - but actually come from there - the comic seems to be saying that one of the SOB is actually from Fenris and the sister of the Space Wolf who he evidently thought killed in his youth...........

Like I said - the SOB don't welcome the Wolves but are in the middle of a firefight so the Chaos Heretics and Dameons take priority otherwise theya re likely to be even more unfriendly - like Space Wolves and Dark Angels meeting.

Out of interest which codex (or book) is the visit to Fenris by the Sisters?

Mr Morden wrote:Out of interest which codex (or book) is the visit to Fenris by the Sisters?

Codex Space Wolves - note that I am relying on people talking about it, I don't have it myself. It seems to be from around 2009 or so, at least judging from the various discussions I stumbled upon on google (just look for "Space Wolves" and "three orders").
5E Codex, page 19?

And sorry, misunderstood that part @ connection between Sororitas and Fenris.

That said, I'd think that Fenris is completely independent from the Ecclesiarchy (see that "incident" in the Codex) and as such also excluded from the Schola Progenium network, the only source of new recruits for the Adepta Sororitas.

Hmm interesting - pulled out the Codex - its ultra vague (Shockingly!)

886.M41 - as you say the Space Wolves fire on a Ecclesiarchy ship sent to inspect them. A year later three orders enter their space "in force" before withdrawing three weeks later...

no mention if they even make planetfall or suffer casulties - although it is described as a war........

I had thought the same re Fenris (like most Astartes worlds) was off limits for recruitment by other organisations but it could be an interesting story as the SOB in question does not recognise him either.

Maybe the SOB on Fenris took some of the tribes girls back with them! (doubt it but seen worse fluff)

Mr Morden wrote:Maybe the SOB on Fenris took some of the tribes girls back with them! (doubt it but seen worse fluff)

Or the writer just took some "artistic license" - if actual BL novel authors are allowed to do so, certainly a fan can, too.
The focus is on "telling a good story", and from that perspective, this twist is a neat idea - even if it isn't consistent with the actual background of the setting.

It's also possible he simply didn't know. This bit about Ecclesiarchy vs SW may be written in his own Codex, but he'd certainly not be the first one to miss such minor details. And the part about how Sisters feel about Astartes in general is only printed in SoB Codices, just like the information on where the SoB actually get "new girls" from.

By the way, something cute from the same artist who has drawn the commissioned comic:
http://nachomon.deviantart.com/art/Chibi-Ultramarine-and-Sisters-215315276

Thanks for the link - fun

Of course the comic could be set before the short war as its pretty recent in 40K history so there is less "tension".

Apparently, those Sisters that don't come from the Scholam system tend to come from Feral Worlds. I guess the near-constant fight for survival serves them well and reinforces their faith.

With specific regards to Fenris... well, it's not like they're using their women for Space Marine candidates. Sending a few off to do other things in the Imperium might, overall, be better for their tribe-units. Sure, they lose potential breeding partners, but it's less mouths to feed.

Psienesis wrote:Apparently, those Sisters that don't come from the Scholam system tend to come from Feral Worlds. I guess the near-constant fight for survival serves them well and reinforces their faith.

Nah, GW makes it very clear that the Schola is the only source of new recruits. Has been like this in every single Codex, even including the latest WD one: "Every Battle Sister is an orphan raised from birth by the Schola Progenium [...]"

Which is understandable - given the amount of indoctrination and training (both martial as well as scholarly) they receive there. One can't just drop some wild youth off at a convent door and expect them to integrate with the community. Especially given how most Feral World populations follow rather weird variations of the Creed that would only remotely connect to the uniform teachings of the Sororitas, if at all.

@Mr. Morden: True, the time difference might be one explanation, though there's still the issue of the Ecclesiarchy having no hold over what happens on Astartes worlds. I'd just "call the spade a spade", as the idiom goes, and enjoy it for the story or the drawings it delivers (provided one doesn't mind the Sororitas being presented like a bunch of incompetent girls who can't get anything done without Marine assistance).

Speaking of "weird variations of the Imperial Creed"... they SOB are apparently now using Death Cult Assassins.

Also, I mis-phrased the bit about Feral Worlders and the Scholam. A number of Imperial martyrs come from Feral Worlds, and it would appear that their children are, indeed, sent to the Scholams.

Rather than being an exception to the Scholam, they are, instead, an exception to the more-usual Imperial/Shrine World origins of such students.

Like with many ideas, the cooler is gets, the more people with disagree. I have to say that I wouldn't have a problem with a counts as Wtichhunters or Chaos Space Marine army, providing it was well done. Even a Slannesh based army, which would have sexuality as the prime concept wouldn't bother me providing it wasn't a green-stuff boobs on models affair.

Well, the OP's original question seemed to be "My wife wants to make Chaos SOB. How can she do this and not be entirely chewed out by TFGs?"

... and so we provided some examples of Sister(s) who have Fallen, sources, and so forth.

If the OP didn't care to keep it fluff-friendly... well, why ask? Just paint it, field it, and keep rollin'.

I know that. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be frowned upon, I'm simply stating that from my perspective, a well done Chaos Sisters of Battle army would be ok, also providing that the fluff is ok. They don't have to be former Sisters of Battle. They could simply be a Chaos warband that only recruits women, LED by a former Sister of Battle or some other warlord in a mockery of their Imperial counterparts.

In that case I will make Imperial Plague Marines...

Which would be what, exactly? Chaos Marines? Yeah, not that contentious I have to admit.

Chaos Plague Marines yes - but with faith in the God Emperor and the scourges of Mankind enemies. And anti-chaos fighters to.

Psienesis wrote:Speaking of "weird variations of the Imperial Creed"... they SOB are apparently now using Death Cult Assassins.

Those (just like the Confessors and Crusaders) are part of the Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves - potentially seconded to, but not part of the Adepta Sororitas.

Though I wouldn't deem it impossible that a Canoness may have contacts of her own regarding such things ... but even then they'd remain an ally rather than members.

Psienesis wrote:Rather than being an exception to the Scholam, they are, instead, an exception to the more-usual Imperial/Shrine World origins of such students.

Ahh, gotcha. Yeah, that seems likely.

Psienesis wrote:If the OP didn't care to keep it fluff-friendly... well, why ask? Just paint it, field it, and keep rollin'.

+1

Plus, it's not even like the fluff gives a definite answer here - it comes down to whether one considers licensed works as able to retcon GW canon or not, so you'd still end up with three factions/opinions here (including those that don't care anyways). *shrug*
The last decision lies, as always, with the player who actually owns the army. It's his (well, in this case, her) thing.

Brother Coa wrote:Chaos Plague Marines yes - but with faith in the God Emperor and the scourges of Mankind enemies. And anti-chaos fighters to.

Now you're just taking the mick.

Exactly
If we can have Chaos s,o,b then we can also have Imperial Plague Marines who fight for the Emperor.
And we can also have living Necrons ( I mean literally living, with flesh and blood not metal ).

Not exactly. Chaos Sisters of Battle aren't exactly out of the realm of possibility. There's some examples of Chaos Sisters in the fluff, in varying forms. Imperial Plague Marines is a direct contradiction. You can't be dedicated to Nurgle and The Emperor.

iproxtaco wrote:Not exactly. Chaos Sisters of Battle aren't exactly out of the realm of possibility. There's some examples of Chaos Sisters in the fluff, in varying forms. Imperial Plague Marines is a direct contradiction. You can't be dedicated to Nurgle and The Emperor.

At least plague sisters would be in better taste than slaaneshi sisters.

iproxtaco wrote:There's some examples of Chaos Sisters in the fluff, in varying forms.

And what example is that beside that one Sister who fall to Chaos?
If Chaos kill them then do some *things* to their bodies after death is quite different than falling to Chaos.

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:There's some examples of Chaos Sisters in the fluff, in varying forms.

And what example is that beside that one Sister who fall to Chaos?
If Chaos kill them then do some *things* to their bodies after death is quite different than falling to Chaos.

That's why I said varying forms. Read what people reply to you more thoroughly. Just read the thread for said numerous examples. The mind-controlled Sisters in a Dan Abnett book spring to mind.