Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Polonius wrote:Yet somehow a person with no future making the perfectly rational choice of simply getting wasted to forget it all

This sentence does not compute.

I feel sympathy for the person who "has no future". But it's still not perfectly rational to "get wasted". You'll get a future alright, it's just a future which is WORSE than the one you currently have.

Maybe, maybe not. I know getting wasted hasn't hurt my future. In fact, the friends I've made doing that have probably helped it.

dogma wrote:Maybe, maybe not. I know getting wasted hasn't hurt my future. In fact, the friends I've made doing that have probably helped it.

Did you get wasted on crack or crystal meth?

Frazzled wrote:

dogma wrote:Maybe, maybe not. I know getting wasted hasn't hurt my future. In fact, the friends I've made doing that have probably helped it.

Did you get wasted on crack or crystal meth?

If I did do you think I would talk about it on the internet?

dogma wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

dogma wrote:Maybe, maybe not. I know getting wasted hasn't hurt my future. In fact, the friends I've made doing that have probably helped it.

Did you get wasted on crack or crystal meth?

If I did do you think I would talk about it on the internet?

I just realized that could be taken several ways. I'm positing that "getting wasted" means a lot of different things. Some future accountant smoking a joint is likely going to be effected in a substantially different manner than someone injecting black tar heroin. On the positive:

Frazzled wrote:
I just realized that could be taken several ways. I'm positing that "getting wasted" means a lot of different things. Some future accountant smoking a joint is likely going to be effected in a substantially different manner than someone injecting black tar heroin.

I mean, I know a couple lawyers who have done both, a used car dealer who loves him some cocaine, and an economist who is fond of meth. Drugs don't necessarily preclude you from being successful.

Yeah, I mean, do you think Americans know how much student loan money is spent on illegal activities?

I'm not one to get on a soap box about substance abuse, I drank far more than my share in college.

That wasn't my point though. My point is, at some point I think it's actually not the wrong choice to simply say "i will never be a productive, independent person. Why not just get wasted as much as I can and ride this out."

dogma wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
I just realized that could be taken several ways. I'm positing that "getting wasted" means a lot of different things. Some future accountant smoking a joint is likely going to be effected in a substantially different manner than someone injecting black tar heroin.

I mean, I know a couple lawyers who have done both, a used car dealer who loves him some cocaine, and an economist who is fond of meth. Drugs don't necessarily preclude you from being successful.

I think its a job requirement that used car salesmen are high on cocaine.
Economist + meth = profit!

Frazzled wrote:
Economist + meth = profit!

Its certainly cheaper than the alternatives.

Ahtman wrote:Don't worry about the Governor and his wife. Even though they sold their shares, Solantic isn't likely to forget who offered them up a big tasty government contract anytime soon.

But saying the law was passed so Scott could economically gain seems silly.

Yes, because no politician has ever done anything like that before.

You sound like a man who has read a lot of Carl Hiaasen books.

Welcome to Florida. Do I think we should do it? No. Do I think we need to reduce spending? Yes. I think everyone on public assistance (food stamps, section 8 housing, medicaid, etc) should submit to random drug tests. Work in the health care field in Florida and you'll find more people addicted to prescription pain killers and they come into the hospitals to get their fix. They present to the ED with generalized pain. If you deny them, they say the magic words to get into any hospital, "I've got chest pain and massive pressure on my left shoulder." Bam you're in the hospital with your script for diloted and any other pain killer you can get from the doctor. They get their 3 hots and a cot for 3-4 days while they run the tests to see if they had a heart attack or if there are any problems and will get discharged. There was no medical reason for them actually being there other than they are addicted to pain medications.

Ghidorah wrote:I give a resounding "HELL NO!" In fact, I would go a step further and implement random drug testing for existing recipients too. Why on earth should the taxpayers foot the bill for people to buy weed (or worse)? I spent a VERY long time amidst welfare recipients in Cincinnati, Ohio. I have seen soooo many people abuse the welfare system. I knew a family of 5 that would spend the $380/mo. cash on a limo and a night out partying and use the $400+ in food stamps to buy all the expensive t-bones and what-not, only to feed their kids baloney and ketchup sandwiches 2 times a day for the last week of the month. This was over and over and over every month. So many people sold their food stamps for .60 cents on the dollar and bought crack, weed, beer, whatever.

I see NOTHING at all wrong, immoral, or unconstitutional in any way. They get reimbursed if they pass the screen. They don't DESERVE to piggy-back off of the work of legitimately employed Americans if they spend the money (or any part of the welfare benefits) on drugs.





Here's a link to the yahoo story: Florida drug testing welfare applicants


Ghidorah

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

dogma wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
I just realized that could be taken several ways. I'm positing that "getting wasted" means a lot of different things. Some future accountant smoking a joint is likely going to be effected in a substantially different manner than someone injecting black tar heroin.

I mean, I know a couple lawyers who have done both, a used car dealer who loves him some cocaine, and an economist who is fond of meth. Drugs don't necessarily preclude you from being successful.

I think its a job requirement that used car salesmen are high on cocaine.
Economist + meth = profit!

They don't necessarily mean it won't catch up to you either.

I worked with a public accounting manager who did meth to stay up and meet dead lines. He ended up getting fired over it when his wife left him and notified the firm that he was using it... other than that, he would stay up for about a week 24 hours a day to meet a deadline, sleep for 24 hours, get back up and repeat the next week. The guy was really smart and driven, but you can only burn the candle at both ends for so long until there is nothing left. I think he's in jail now (he was high as a kite and ran some kids over when he went to pick up his kids from school - I think he hit two and killed one of them but in his defense, they did dart right behind him at the last second when they showed the video on the 11PM News). I'll see if I can find his mug shot - I don't recall if he was in Miami/Dade or Hillsborough (Tampa).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Troy wrote:

Crablezworth wrote:Corporate welfare reform would be nice too. It's all well and good to whine about people abusing the system but some perspective is necessary. This lady sounds like a real piece of work but I don't hear any complaints about oil companies getting billions in subsidies.

That's like screaming at an ant eating crumbs off your floor while not noticing the dudes stealing your tv.

That's what I can't stand about america, tax the rich, for the love god.

They aren't subsidies they are tax breaks, but otherwise you're 100% correct.

Exactly - subsidies are what they pay my aunt and uncle not to farm on their 3,000 acres of farm land so that we can keep the price of corn down. Its not a bad gig when you can get it.

Frazzled wrote:I think its a job requirement that used car salesmen are high on cocaine.
Economist + meth = profit!

That's why I only buy from used car salesmen who have all their teeth.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Don't worry about the Governor and his wife. Even though they sold their shares, Solantic isn't likely to forget who offered them up a big tasty government contract anytime soon.

But saying the law was passed so Scott could economically gain seems silly.

Yes, because no politician has ever done anything like that before.

You sound like a man who has read a lot of Carl Hiaasen books.

I have not. I'm not saying there is any kind of conspiracy here but I also don't believe that just dumping stocks means that they suddenly have no ties to the company. They still are very well connected; it may be inappropriate, it may not. It isn't as if there is no precedent in American (or any other for that matter) politics for this kind of thing. It looks bad, and since this isn't elementary school politics, that can be just as bad as doing something bad. Of course following that up with scoffing at the idea that there could be some collusion between between big business and government is silly is just flat out naive when we know it happens from time to time. This isn't a conspiracy theory. I believe just recently in England some public officials and police resigned because of a bit of inappropriate closeness. I'm not saying they did it, I'm taking issue with the at the idea that it isn't possible for it to happen.

They don't necessarily mean it won't catch up to you either.

It also doesn't mean it will either. This is the real world where bad things happen and there isn't always a lesson at the end of a story. It isn't an after school special with a moral.

Ahtman wrote:
I have not. I'm not saying there is any kind of conspiracy here but I also don't believe that just dumping stocks means that they suddenly have no ties to the company. They still are very well connected; it may be inappropriate, it may not. It isn't as if there is no precedent in American (or any other for that matter) politics for this kind of thing. It looks bad, and since this isn't elementary school politics, that can be just as bad as doing something bad. Of course following that up with scoffing at the idea that there could be some collusion between between big business and government is silly is just flat out naive when we know it happens from time to time. This isn't a conspiracy theory. I believe just recently in England some public officials and police resigned because of a bit of inappropriate closeness. I'm not saying they did it, I'm taking issue with the at the idea that it isn't possible for it to happen.

I'll ask again, did the company get the contract? If so, was it fairly bid/were there protests on the award?

So far, even after looking up current and upcoming contracts on the FL state gov web page, I can't find where this company got the contract...

CptJake wrote:

Ahtman wrote:
I have not. I'm not saying there is any kind of conspiracy here but I also don't believe that just dumping stocks means that they suddenly have no ties to the company. They still are very well connected; it may be inappropriate, it may not. It isn't as if there is no precedent in American (or any other for that matter) politics for this kind of thing. It looks bad, and since this isn't elementary school politics, that can be just as bad as doing something bad. Of course following that up with scoffing at the idea that there could be some collusion between between big business and government is silly is just flat out naive when we know it happens from time to time. This isn't a conspiracy theory. I believe just recently in England some public officials and police resigned because of a bit of inappropriate closeness. I'm not saying they did it, I'm taking issue with the at the idea that it isn't possible for it to happen.

I'll ask again, did the company get the contract? If so, was it fairly bid/were there protests on the award?

So far, even after looking up current and upcoming contracts on the FL state gov web page, I can't find where this company got the contract...

I didn't say they got it. If it helps go back and check. Of course you also don't know. At this point it could be either: Schrodinger's Testing facility. i took issue with the idea that it was silly to even consider such a connection would happen when these kind of connections have happened before.

Polonius wrote:Yeah, I mean, do you think Americans know how much student loan money is spent on illegal activities?

I'm not one to get on a soap box about substance abuse, I drank far more than my share in college.

That wasn't my point though. My point is, at some point I think it's actually not the wrong choice to simply say "i will never be a productive, independent person. Why not just get wasted as much as I can and ride this out."

Good point. We should make them pay us back for the welfare they use.

Do we really want to take away welfare from this person?

remilia_scarlet wrote:Do you really want to take away welfare from this person?

Spoiler:

No, but I do want to take away his ability to "contribute" to the gene-pool.

ick.

agnosto wrote:

remilia_scarlet wrote:Do you really want to take away welfare from this person?

Spoiler:

No, but I do want to take away his ability to "contribute" to the gene-pool.

ick.

I would love to find the man a job in society, so he won't need a welfare check anymore, after all, walmart is always hiring.

remilia_scarlet wrote:I would love to find the man a job in society, so he won't need a welfare check anymore, after all, walmart is always hiring.

What and take him away from his lucrative career as a redneck model/ meth-dealer/ "squeal like a pig" backwoodsman?

Besides, he'd just rob the place to pay for his sex-change...(hint, it really happened).

http://news.yahoo.com/police-walmart-worker-burglarized-sex-change-175957829.html

agnosto wrote:

remilia_scarlet wrote:I would love to find the man a job in society, so he won't need a welfare check anymore, after all, walmart is always hiring.

What and take him away from his lucrative career as a redneck model/ meth-dealer/ "squeal like a pig" backwoodsman?

I was thinking more along the lines of joe dirt/pickup bandit/ lucky from king of the hill, living off of a combination of welfare and settlement money.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That cannot be unread.

How nice of you guys to judge someone based on their looks. I guess that's never happened to you, Remilia?

CptJake wrote:Assume wrongly. Alcohol is legal for 21 and above where I live.

I'll restate more clearly. I am against illegal drug use and all drug abuse.

Now, how does that change the constitutionality of the law being discussed, or are you just being a troll and looking for a way to attack me?

Actually I was just trying to confirm my suspicions, I appreciate your honesty.

Florida's main problem drug wise is all the pill farms dishing out oxy.. but why worry about the oxy addicts and booze hounds it's those darn dopers and their illegal devil's weed

nectarprime wrote:How nice of you guys to judge someone based on their looks. I guess that's never happened to you, Remilia?

Yeah, he/she gets pre-judged on account of being an anime character; "My, what big eyes you have!"




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crablezworth wrote:
Florida's main problem drug wise is all the pill farms dishing out oxy.. but why worry about the oxy addicts and booze hounds it's those darn dopers and their illegal devil's weed

Oklahoma is the crystal-meth and pot capital of the U.S. When I was a social worker, I learned what a meth user smells like; yes, they have a distinctive smell...if the teeth and other things didn't tip you off first.

Well the Gov of Florida needs to look like hes doing something so picking on the weakest, least likely to have legal counsel, least likely to vote in the next election is the way to go. This law affects poor people only....they do not drug test business owners, Farmers, corporate employees that recieve state monies/subsidies do they? This is purely a distraction from the real issues that plague Florida....faltering economy, poor real estate market, high unemployment....

nectarprime wrote:How nice of you guys to judge someone based on their looks. I guess that's never happened to you, Remilia?

I guess the joke went completely over your head, who knows, the guy could be a millionaire. The point is that many people on welfare don't work, therfore, don't have to worry about looking nice, or taking pride in themselves.

Dogface 76 wrote:Well the Gov of Florida needs to look like hes doing something so picking on the weakest, least likely to have legal counsel, least likely to vote in the next election is the way to go.

Worked in Arizona, Colorado and other states by focusing on "them illegals that been takin our jobs".

nevermind

Polonius wrote:Yeah, I mean, do you think Americans know how much student loan money is spent on illegal activities?

The funny part is that the higher you go in terms of academic prestige, the more drug use tends to occur. Kids at directional schools have nothing on the Ivies when it comes to partying.

remilia_scarlet wrote:I agree, last thing I want to do is pay for someone else's habits. These days, more and more people are getting on government assistance that don't even need it, so, it's becoming a burden on the government. I have this neighbor, who's 23, perfecly capable of working, but is on disability for ADD. He does nothing but play second life all day, and spends money on that game, so, in short, we're paying for his habits.

This!!!! I have always been a big fan of this option as well:

If you are on welfare or have lost your job, you have 3 choices.

1) If you are physically or mentally unable to care for yourself and have no family capable of supporting you then you MUST become a ward of the state. You will report for medical treatment as necessary for your condition and be subject to a panel of doctors that will review your condition twice a year and determine your level of disability. You must also submit for monthly drug testing, mandatory birth control and quarterly visits by social services, in your home. In return you will receive your welfare disbursements. You will also receive the necessary medical/mental care you require and food security you need, and social programs to help you live a quality life.

2) Look for a job and receive no unemployment or welfare payments whilst you do so. You are free to enjoy your life without the intrusion of the government.

3) Report to the local Workforce commission local office at 8 am. From 8 am to 12 pm you will utilize the WFC computers, hard copy and counselors to find a job, or receive job training on selected fields. (i.e. Computer Usage, Filing, Plumbing, Construction, interviewing skills... etc.) - at 12 pm you will be allowed 30 minutes for lunch onsite provided by the state. From 12:30 till 5 PM you will be required to preform services in your area. Painting over graffiti, planting trees, picking up garbage from the roadside, building playgrounds, digging ditches, clearing abandoned lots of debris...etc. For this you will receive a livable wage based upon the median income in your area.