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Usually it's more likie five seconds. "It'll burn you and hurt really bad."
Why?
"Because it's too hot. Now go play in thie living room while I finish making dinner." Usually this is enough in my experience. If they do ask why again, I'd tell them: "I'll tell you when I'm done making dinner." Then explain when I'm not so busy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/03 14:25:28
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote:"Because it's too hot. Now go play in thie living room while I finish making dinner."
Why?
Melissia wrote:"I'll tell you when I'm done making dinner."
Why?
It seems you don't really get the game. They're not interested in an explanation, they want to annoy you and/or keep you talking. Kids aren't able to remember long conversations or reasons for doing something, treating them as if they do is inappropriate.
I have no children of my own but having been a child (which I believe like most of us , maybe...), I believe I can give a bit of insight into the whole discipline thing, at least from my prespective.
I am currently 26, having a job in my field of study in the public sector which pays extremely well, have never had a run in with the law, and generally well respected from my superiors and peers. I was raised while being part of a church until I was 7, when we moved away from the extremely small town we lived in due to the distance my father had to drive to work, which I rarely got to see him when I was young. We never really returned back to going to church after moving. But, I can remember vividly getting switched, spanked with hand, paddle, and belt, and then an occasional beating due to causing either one of my parents major grief.
One in particular day, I can remember receiving a beating for doing something that I was not suppose to do, I do not remember what but I sure remember seeing my father's face and his wide swinging hand, basically completely lunging at me to hit me. The thing is, while at the time, it scared me to death to see him do this and it hurt. But looking back at it now, it was such a insignificant event in my life. It got the point across to me, at that time, that I should have not done what I did, and should not do it again, and it was based on fear, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread. But I do not respect my father out of fear anymore, but respect him as a parent who raised me. I have no resentment toward him because of this. The same goes for my mother for all the flexible pieces of wood or clothes hangers she would find and swat me many times.
My mother told me several times of a story of when I was extremely young, too young to remember the event. When I was still in diapers, I would just constantly just keep going in them, completely overflowing them. I wouldn't care. She would try to potty train me and I just didn't want to learn. One day, I just let it keep going so much that it just completely spills out all over the floor and my mother just completely lost it. She said that she beat me and that she couldn't stop. After this happened, she said that she cried because of what she did to me but after that happened, I learned to use the toilet and never gave her any issues after that event.
It's funny, people speak about punishment and believing that physical punishment is why children grow up to be abusers. I am not sure how I feel about the issue. I do not have any children of my own so it's hard to come up with an answer without having any experience. It would seem, to me, that logic shows that physical punishment for particularly bad behaviors helps reinforce that bad behavior is unacceptible. But the way I feel, personally, I am not sure if I could spank a child unless I just became so angered by their actions, which then is the wrong thing to do. This may have to do with the fact that I never grew up with having to take care of younger sliblings due to them being basically the same age or older than I.
I also recall one event here at work, where a co-worker was speaking to another about his daughter going to college and having a few issues with her. I remember him saying something that I think will stick with me. As a parent of a child, your not there to be their friend.
Take what you will from this...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/03 15:41:23
biccat wrote:they want to annoy you and/or keep you talking.
So basically like you, then?
If the child won't go away when I ask them to, that's breaking the rules of the house, so they get punished for it. They know this, too.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Gee, my kids well behaved and I have never spanked them. I find reason, denial of priviledges, and rewarding correct behavior works much better.
Huh?
I guess that means it isn't necessary to swack my kid to get their attention to behave.
I've known several parents who took this position and handled their kids in this way. To a one they thought their kid were well behaved angels. To a one their kids were the most out of control little gak heads you've ever met.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/03 16:59:35
mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
Melissia wrote:"Because it's too hot. Now go play in thie living room while I finish making dinner."
Why?
Melissia wrote:"I'll tell you when I'm done making dinner."
Why?
It seems you don't really get the game. They're not interested in an explanation, they want to annoy you and/or keep you talking. Kids aren't able to remember long conversations or reasons for doing something, treating them as if they do is inappropriate.
My niece and nephews have given up on asking me why, I generally get cryptic and tend to do it back. Our family's children know better than to play those games with Unka Auston, I have years of practice.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Azza007 wrote:So in your view what is acceptable in terms of discipline and when does it start crossing the line.
I believe, as my parents do, that discipline should never be done out of anger (because then it is more about revenge than justice or discipline).
I believe discipline is about your love of the child. If you truly care for your child, you will weed out bad behavior through whatever means necessary (whether by the rod or less-harsh methods). I appreciate that my parents have cared for me enough that they have strongly disciplined me in my youth, though I did not appreciate it at the time.
If tell a child not to do something, I consider it extremely probable that they will commit the same crime again.
If you discipline a child lightly, they will most likely commit the same crime again.
If you discipline a child moderately, they will certainly hesitate before committing the sin again.
If you discipline a child strongly, they will never commit that sin again. (And I know this from experience.)
Call it abuse if you will, but you are helping your child.
The only two things I believe the parent can do wrong is discipline you while angry, or discipline you so much that you are damaged mentally or physically.
The Bringer wrote:If tell a child not to do something, I consider it extremely probable that they will commit the same crime again.
If you discipline a child lightly, they will most likely commit the same crime again.
If you discipline a child moderately, they will certainly hesitate before committing the sin again.
If you discipline a child strongly, they will never commit that sin again. (And I know this from experience.)
Melissia wrote:
"Daddy's in a grumpy mood, so now he's spanking me with his heaviest belt for speaking out of turn, but a week ago he was in a great mood so I got away with a temper tantrum that broke a chair and all I got was a slap on the wrist!"
Inconsistency is a problem for all parenting styles, and nothing turns corporeal punishment into a worthless tool like someone dealing out punishment inconsistently. It happens just as often if not more often than "soft parenting" being used inconsistently...
It seems to me that you presuming the majority of parents who use spanking are moody nut jobs who pummel their children anytime they gets a little stressed out, or cannot think of a good way to discipline there child so they just resort to brute force. You state this as though it is a fact, but it is really just your opinion and a malicious and unfounded stereotype. I'm not saying there is no such thing as abusive parents or that they are rare, but just blurting out that most parents that spank are probably abusive is ridiculous.
Grabzak Dirtyfighter wrote:It seems to me that you presuming the majority of parents who use spanking are moody nut jobs who pummel their children anytime they gets a little stressed out
It seems to me that your presumption is wrong.
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The Bringer wrote:If you discipline a child strongly, they will never commit that sin again. (And I know this from experience.)
Or they could just become inured to the discipline and not be effected by it because it's too harsh, and they realize it is so they don't respect you. The same thing happens with dictatorial states, oddly enough.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/11/03 23:01:35
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Grabzak Dirtyfighter wrote:It seems to me that you presuming the majority of parents who use spanking are moody nut jobs who pummel their children anytime they gets a little stressed out
It seems to me that your presumption is wrong.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Bringer wrote:If you discipline a child strongly, they will never commit that sin again. (And I know this from experience.)
Or they could just become inured to the discipline and not be effected by it because it's too harsh, and they realize it is so they don't respect you. The same thing happens with dictatorial states, oddly enough.
No I agree with him completely. But as mentioned earlier, you have a very high opinion of yourself, and regardless of what others say about it, you argue teeth and nail against it. Its ok to admit your wrong you know, everyone is from time to time.
Melissia wrote:
"Daddy's in a grumpy mood, so now he's spanking me with his heaviest belt for speaking out of turn, but a week ago he was in a great mood so I got away with a temper tantrum that broke a chair and all I got was a slap on the wrist!"
Melissia wrote:
Grabzak Dirtyfighter wrote:It seems to me that you presuming the majority of parents who use spanking are moody nut jobs who pummel their children anytime they gets a little stressed out
It seems to me that your presumption is wrong.
That's funny it looks to me my presumption is not only not wrong, but is quite possibly exactly right!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/03 23:09:18
We seem to be doing a lot of this is wrong no its right, thats abuse etc. So why not look at what misdemeanor/rule breaking deserves what punishment to try stop the topic going round and round. We have all agreed that different kids need different things to punish them.
So whats the consensus on what is acceptable for what crime. stealing a cookie out of the cookie jar=time out, hitting a sibling etc=smack on the bum and swearing=possible fine if mild, severe is wash out mouth. These are examples of what I would do btw.
Bruins fan till the end.
Never assume anything, it will only make an ass of you and me.
Melissia wrote:
"Daddy's in a grumpy mood, so now he's spanking me with his heaviest belt for speaking out of turn, but a week ago he was in a great mood so I got away with a temper tantrum that broke a chair and all I got was a slap on the wrist!"
Inconsistency is a problem for all parenting styles, and nothing turns corporeal punishment into a worthless tool like someone dealing out punishment inconsistently. It happens just as often if not more often than "soft parenting" being used inconsistently...
It seems to me that you presuming the majority of parents who use spanking are moody nut jobs who pummel their children anytime they gets a little stressed out, or cannot think of a good way to discipline there child so they just resort to brute force. You state this as though it is a fact, but it is really just your opinion and a malicious and unfounded stereotype. I'm not saying there is no such thing as abusive parents or that they are rare, but just blurting out that most parents that spank are probably abusive is ridiculous.
You'll find that just letting people on the internet be wrong is much less frustrating than trying to convince someone who is obviously trolling you that their outlandish and irresponsible claims are incorrect.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/04 00:20:17
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate.
KingCrakker, Grabzak: Try actually reading the posts you're responding to.
Melissia wrote:Inconsistency is a problem for all parenting styles, and nothing turns corporeal punishment into a worthless tool like someone dealing out punishment inconsistently.
It's a problem with parenting in general, but apparently my saying this is the same as me saying "anyone who spanks is always inconsistent every time forever".
Bloody fething hell people... your hyperbole is infuriatingly illogical.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/11/04 01:42:51
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
The Bringer wrote:If you discipline a child strongly, they will never commit that sin again. (And I know this from experience.)
Or they could just become inured to the discipline and not be effected by it because it's too harsh, and they realize it is so they don't respect you. The same thing happens with dictatorial states, oddly enough.
That is irrelevant to the question asked by the OP.
Nonetheless, I will reply. If you only discipline the child, I believe what you stated is a natural result. My parents told me why they were disciplining me, however. They made it imperative to make me understood that they still loved me, which their actions have regularly proved.
Sadly, most parents in today society do not do this.
Also, how should a parent who disciplines their child by sending them to their room deserve any respect? Only parents who are backboneless, lazy, and uncaring would do such things. Sure, the child is happy he got off the hook, but he will not respect his parent any more than he previously had.
The Bringer wrote: how should a parent who disciplines their child by sending them to their room deserve any respect? Only parents who are backboneless, lazy, and uncaring would do such things. Sure, the child is happy he got off the hook, but he will not respect his parent any more than he previously had.
I'm for spanking kids but I'd strongly disagree with this. When I was younger there were days when I thought I'd rather lose an arm than rights to go to my friend's house. I believe your assertion that only lazy parents would choose to use that form of punishment is every bit as misguided as those who believe any form of corporeal punishment is abuse.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
The Bringer wrote: how should a parent who disciplines their child by sending them to their room deserve any respect? Only parents who are backboneless, lazy, and uncaring would do such things. Sure, the child is happy he got off the hook, but he will not respect his parent any more than he previously had.
I'm for spanking kids but I'd strongly disagree with this. When I was younger there were days when I thought I'd rather lose an arm than rights to go to my friend's house. I believe your assertion that only lazy parents would choose to use that form of punishment is every bit as misguided as those who believe any form of corporeal punishment is abuse.
Let me amend my statement, as I agree with you as it is.
Most parents in today's community (this is from personal experience here... I guess it could vary greatly depending on location and community) send their child to their room just to get the child away... the child feels no remorse, and will just play with his/her toys... there is no real punishment going on in such a situation.
Not going to a friend's house is definitely a good form of punishment... sending a child away for the sake of getting them out of your hair is what I was referring to.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/04 03:05:33
Kragura wrote:As someone who was also raised on this rational neither have I. That doesn't change the fact that that's the lesson you teach kids when you hit them, and it doesn't change the fact that this is a bad lesson.
Well, given that you acknowledge the falsity of your assertion that kids who are spanked/hit act out in a similar way when they get older, I'm not sure what is left to discuss.
That wasn't my argument and you know it. I have said time and time again that hitting children teaches a bad lesson, not that they will inevitably act in a certain way if you raise them in a certain way.
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biccat wrote:
Melissia wrote:Twenty minutes?
Usually it's more likie five seconds. "It'll burn you and hurt really bad."
Why?
"I don't know" why would be my response. then I would let them touch it, "see?"
This of course is all irrelevant because I was talking about teaching them the difference from right and wrong, touching the stove is in no way wrong it's just dumb, I'd let the child figure out why if they really want to.
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KingCracker wrote:
But then there not are they, they of course still have you there to get mad at them. I meant more along the lines of "if they get bigger than you", in all honesty they'll probably be fine, people are able to pick up some good moral lessons from anywhere. The problem is that your not teaching them good moral lessons, in fact you're probably contradicting a lot of them.
My kids behave when they arnt with me, because they know thats what a good person does, it has nothing to do with fear at all.
I'm sure this is very true, but how did you hitting them teach them that? How could it teach them anything other than what I've already said it would teach them?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/04 03:20:52
Melissia wrote:KingCrakker, Grabzak: Try actually reading the posts you're responding to.
Melissia wrote:Inconsistency is a problem for all parenting styles, and nothing turns corporeal punishment into a worthless tool like someone dealing out punishment inconsistently.
It's a problem with parenting in general, but apparently my saying this is the same as me saying "anyone who spanks is always inconsistent every time forever".
Bloody fething hell people... your hyperbole is infuriatingly illogical.
But I had told my children great wisdom a million times and they still will not listen!
Parenting is much like being a director for a TV show.
You want to make your point and try hard to figure out how to get your audience's attention.
My youngest is easy to get his attention and logic explained well he understands he can follow "the news report".
My oldest is high energy: he needs the explosions, flashing lights and clowns to just to get his attention for a moment never mind for the duration to get a message across, he would watch "Jerry Springer".
No strategy survives engagement with the enemy or small children.
One thing you cannot ignore is the complete sincerity of the parents wanting to do what is right and good for their kids.
The high ideals I can respect the intent but scoff at the successful application and truly think no-one has any idea what they are talking about until they have kids, period (remember I was once like you).
You will and shall lose all thought of thinking about you first, REALLY think how much your needs are considered before all else until these needy little munchkins get involved.
Spanking is done by parents because all other options have failed miserably: talking, corners, privilege loss, stickers, prizes, bribes and therapy: with some kids these all fail and desperation sets in.
Yes, some parents do not care, or are lazy, narcissists and any other form of failing and human condition but I like to focus on "normal" people doing the best they can and is physical punishment bad?
My eldest son was upset that he could not stop hitting kids, speaking up in class, unable to focus or understand conversations because he was easily distracted, he needed help and I was running out of time.
You never quite come to a realization how your kids are until your nice, loving, sweet, mother in-law snaps in the car with your kids and tell them to keep their hands to themselves or she will chop them off.
You know when my kids suffer the most at my hands? When they are ignored. When I am too busy. When they show me a piece of their artwork and I do not care. When I will not help them with getting that bit of lego together with them. These things I am certain pain them more than any spanking I have ever done. Anything done constructively with good and thoughtful intent is worth doing even if the means are less than ideal. When I implemented spanking for hurting others only that behavior stopped dead. It seemed to give that last little bit of control my son needed to stop himself. He was happy he did not hurt anyone and was not fearful of me due to this process.
Blah. This thread makes me write too much . I appreciate the viewpoints but forgive me if a smile a little at the helpful advice that failed miserably in the past and was tried a few more times for good measure.
Thanks all.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Azza007 wrote:We seem to be doing a lot of this is wrong no its right, thats abuse etc. So why not look at what misdemeanor/rule breaking deserves what punishment to try stop the topic going round and round. We have all agreed that different kids need different things to punish them.
So whats the consensus on what is acceptable for what crime. stealing a cookie out of the cookie jar=time out, hitting a sibling etc=smack on the bum and swearing=possible fine if mild, severe is wash out mouth. These are examples of what I would do btw.
I think that it's not so simple as a one sided chart. If we were to make a "punishment matrix" then it would be more like certain 'crimes' get lumped into one category which would be punished a certain way, for the first offense. I think that, in cases (which usually happens) we as parents have to take escalating steps in punishment, with the mind that the child is of a certain age and will still understand only a limited number of punishments.
You know, at least it's easier to talk reason and logic to a kid than it is to someone on the internet.
Otherwise we'd all be doomed... *looks at the strawman arguments in this thread* ...oh so very doomed...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/04 05:01:49
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
biccat wrote:Spanking, slapping, or hitting a kid when they do something wrong (as punishment, not as a beating) doesn't teach them that "might makes right" or any other "bad lesson." (Assuming, of course, that might makes right is a bad lesson).
Well, it might, if the only reason the child has to obey the parent is fear of getting spanked.
But then, that's a problem that occurs when the respect is gone, because the parent has failed in so many other ways.
If the respect is gone, then hitting or no hitting you're fethed either way. If the respect is there, then hitting or not the kid will probably turn out alright.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Why back in my day When I misbehaved I was speared and hung upside down for 5 days and five nights, then I had to sacrifice myself. Kids today are weak
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/04 07:02:41
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
, maybe...), I believe I can give a bit of insight into the whole discipline thing, at least from my prespective.
- 3000+
- 2000+
You never quite come to a realization how your kids are until your nice, loving, sweet, mother in-law snaps in the car with your kids and tell them to keep their hands to themselves or she will chop them off.
You know when my kids suffer the most at my hands? When they are ignored. When I am too busy. When they show me a piece of their artwork and I do not care. When I will not help them with getting that bit of lego together with them. These things I am certain pain them more than any spanking I have ever done. Anything done constructively with good and thoughtful intent is worth doing even if the means are less than ideal. When I implemented spanking for hurting others only that behavior stopped dead. It seemed to give that last little bit of control my son needed to stop himself. He was happy he did not hurt anyone and was not fearful of me due to this process.
. I appreciate the viewpoints but forgive me if a smile a little at the helpful advice that failed miserably in the past and was tried a few more times for good measure.
