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This is aweful!

Therefore, it must be a lie.

Ledabot wrote:This is aweful!

Therefore, it must be fully approved by GW

Fix'd

Ledabot wrote:This is aweful!

Therefore, it must be a lie.

I really hope there's supposed to be sarcasm in there, because my experience so far with GW is that one thing has nothing to do with the other...

With regards to the fluff changes, I really think this depends on how it's done; if it's the entire Astartes organisation doing a 180 and setting up a cordon around the Tau empire then that will be terrible.

However if it were more of someone finding an ancient prophesy from the Emperor that speaks of the rise of a new race that will be the salvation of mankind from Chaos then that could prove interesting, as it would be open to interpretation. It could lead to all sorts of interesting fractures and friction in the imperium, for example:

Maybe the Ultras take it as a direct command to seek out and ally with the Tau, but the Space Wolves actually believe that it is an instruction to use the Tau as cannon fodder to shield the imperium. The Templars will assume it is a fake and immediately launch a crusade to eliminate the Tau before the others can allow them to contaminate the imperium. Maybe another faction believes that Tau technology can be used to fix the Golden Throne, which will fulfil the prophesy.

What I'm getting at is that this would shake up some of the established relationships and actually add to the feeling of desperation and decay within the imperium, if it's done with subtlety and insinuation.

Of course the biggest problem is finding someone at GW that doesn't need to look up subtlety in a dictionary just to know what it means...

P.S. I chose the chapters at random just for an example, no offence meant :-)

Jadenim wrote:

Ledabot wrote:This is aweful!

Therefore, it must be a lie.

With regards to the fluff changes, I really think this depends on how it's done; if it's the entire Astartes organisation doing a 180 and setting up a cordon around the Tau empire then that will be terrible.

However if it were more of someone finding an ancient prophesy from the Emperor that speaks of the rise of a new race that will be the salvation of mankind from Chaos then that could prove interesting, as it would be open to interpretation. It could lead to all sorts of interesting fractures and friction in the imperium, for example:

Maybe the Ultras take it as a direct command to seek out and ally with the Tau, but the Space Wolves actually believe that it is an instruction to use the Tau as cannon fodder to shield the imperium. The Templars will assume it is a fake and immediately launch a crusade to eliminate the Tau before the others can allow them to contaminate the imperium. Maybe another faction believes that Tau technology can be used to fix the Golden Throne, which will fulfil the prophesy.

It wont matter if its handled in a masterful manner you would still get the folk who feel it degrades their vision of their army thus whining ensues......

*sigh* I know, the internet is the metropolis of whines, I just thought I'd try and inject a little bit of hope...

I say bring on the advancing of the canon, the 40K universe as it is is getting stale and needs a new direction.
It doesnt matter to me if they choose to ally to previously unallyable factions or whatever tangent they choose as long as it is done in a interesting way that will keep me engaged with 40k, if they dont maybe i will play more mass effect.

The rumour about terrain being purchased before game doesnt sound too far fetched, as i think 40K terrain would be an area of considerable growth for citadel minis

You don't know if I was saying it stright? I don't know why you would think its sarcastic. just look at it. The story pulled itself out of a jeroco weaponsmiths arse, but you could also take it to be a comment about how everybodys doing the oh noooooes!.

carmachu wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:No matter what they do to the rules or the fluff, I bet that every single one of you that are complaining right now still play the game and buy GW products.

Ah the foolish fanboys speak.

No, more then a few of us have stopped buying and even stopped playing. Our group of a dozen have abandoned GW completely, to the point of selling GW stuff off to buy warmhordes stuff. Or mailfax.

I doubt we're alone.

Fanboy? LMAO. I dont play any GW game systems. I buy plenty of their minis for use with other systems, but dont use any GW rules sets...40k, WHFB, LoTR, none of them.

Well...I do play some Necromunda now and then...so if that makes me a fanboy...

spiraleddie wrote:I say bring on the advancing of the canon, the 40K universe as it is is getting stale and needs a new direction.

Just no.

The the universe is fine.

The horrid codexes, gakky rules changes and twink-gamers that will abuse things like the allies rules are what is stale...

Jadenim wrote:*sigh* I know, the internet is the metropolis of whines, I just thought I'd try and inject a little bit of hope...

Hope?

in WH 40k ?



The imminent danger of it not being well done far outstrips the chances of believable "advancements" of the background.
Plus advancing a setting ....

spiraleddie wrote:I say bring on the advancing of the canon, the 40K universe as it is is getting stale and needs a new direction.

Those of us in the land of the 40K RPG's beg to differ...

1hadhq wrote:

Jadenim wrote:*sigh* I know, the internet is the metropolis of whines, I just thought I'd try and inject a little bit of hope...

Hope?

in WH 40k ?



The imminent danger of it not being well done far outstrips the chances of believable "advancements" of the background.
Plus advancing a setting ....

I actually meant hope for us that we get a decent ruleset, not actual hope in the game setting. That would be ludicrous

P.S. I think you were joking anyway

H.B.M.C. wrote:

spiraleddie wrote:I say bring on the advancing of the canon, the 40K universe as it is is getting stale and needs a new direction.

Those of us in the land of the 40K RPG's beg to differ...

Whether or not the RPGs work doesn't really reflect on GW's worldbuilding. Indeed, I'd argue that it's FFG's writers who are responsible for the success of those games (together, obviously, with rather impressive production values).

Redemption wrote:http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/05/05/network-news-the-6th-edition-leak-and/

The Imperium is fracturing and the Space Marines are starting to separate themselves from the Lords of Terra. The heretical and xenophobia has gotten to a tipping point causing many chapters to take actions against the “best wishes” of many in the Imperium.

A discovery of galactic importance has happened.

Damn, I cannot stop thinking Dark angels splitting from the empire because their secret is out. But while they still serve humanity, they are branded renegades along with all that joined them.

Black Templar's fluff are already on the verge of being renegades as their numbers are rumored to be a whooping 6000+ marines. They are also less likely to do what others tell them too, and more what they feel is right in their eyes.
They serve the emperor and none else.

Thats would make a fitting split but still staying on the path.


Anyways if the emperor dies, their is at least a chance GW could start a new epic saga with a new star-child. Think about it. the empires falls only to reborn anew.

The funny thing is, Tau as the saviors of the galaxy do not make any sense under the current Chaos fluff. None whatsoever. Chaos is a threat because sentient creatures make it a threat. It's not like Nids that come from somewhere, go somewhere and can be stopped inbetween. Chaos doesn't have a real goal and will exist as long as hate, rage, lust and all the other voices exist. So the only way Tau can save Humanity from Chaos is by brainwashing every single human (and Eldar and probably a bunch of other races) into a mindless drone. That will starve the Chaos gods and bring everlasting, drooling peace.

From a chaos marine player's perspective, I kinda hope the allies thing is true, because it's a fairly elegant solution to the presence/absence of daemons in our codex. From everyone else's perspective, it's seems pretty screwy. So I'm not sure whether to root for this one or not!

I think if they somehow restrict ally unit selection to a fairly small list, it might work... but I'm not sure how they'd do that across all current and future codices.

His Master's Voice wrote:The funny thing is, Tau as the saviors of the galaxy do not make any sense under the current Chaos fluff. None whatsoever. Chaos is a threat because sentient creatures make it a threat. It's not like Nids that come from somewhere, go somewhere and can be stopped inbetween. Chaos doesn't have a real goal and will exist as long as hate, rage, lust and all the other voices exist. So the only way Tau can save Humanity from Chaos is by brainwashing every single human (and Eldar and probably a bunch of other races) into a mindless drone. That will starve the Chaos gods and bring everlasting, drooling peace.

Actually it does and is strongly hinted at in current fluff.

1.) Tau being immune to Chaos: No incident of corrupted tau in the Codex. The old Daemonhunter Codex lists several scenarios why they should fight other races instead of just daemons: The Tau entry doesn't list corrupted Tau. In the novel Firewarrior, a daemon finds "one in a million" of Firewarriors where he sees a chance of corruption (he doesn't even try the ethereal). In the end he utterly falis even with this exceptionally emotional Firewarrior. The (controversial book) Xenology strongly hints that Eldar created the first Ethereal to create a race immune to Chaos. And having a low presence in the warp, no psykers and no idea of what warp and Chaos is, adds to the picture.

2.) Mankind and the universe are in a state of global Montau, where people out of their mind are slaying each other for no reason at all. Hate and fear rule. This is worse than even today's earth. Now imagine that charismatic leaders preach peace, love and understanding in Dalai Lama style. Or control their emotions like Vulkans did. This could definitely weaken Chaos and break up the stalemate. Having a big mobile army immune to Chaos corruption helps of course, and having a new ally instead of another enemy as well.

Not saying that the BoK rumours are correct of course. Just discussing the possible consequences.

His Master's Voice wrote:The funny thing is, Tau as the saviors of the galaxy do not make any sense under the current Chaos fluff. None whatsoever. Chaos is a threat because sentient creatures make it a threat. It's not like Nids that come from somewhere, go somewhere and can be stopped inbetween. Chaos doesn't have a real goal and will exist as long as hate, rage, lust and all the other voices exist. So the only way Tau can save Humanity from Chaos is by brainwashing every single human (and Eldar and probably a bunch of other races) into a mindless drone. That will starve the Chaos gods and bring everlasting, drooling peace.

I think your overstating it a little there seems to be a direct correlation between psychic potential and the injudicious use of such potential and even then there seems to be exceptions such as the Orks where there has never really been any indication that their warlike activities buff khorne.

nm.

KarlPedder wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:The funny thing is, Tau as the saviors of the galaxy do not make any sense under the current Chaos fluff. None whatsoever. Chaos is a threat because sentient creatures make it a threat. It's not like Nids that come from somewhere, go somewhere and can be stopped inbetween. Chaos doesn't have a real goal and will exist as long as hate, rage, lust and all the other voices exist. So the only way Tau can save Humanity from Chaos is by brainwashing every single human (and Eldar and probably a bunch of other races) into a mindless drone. That will starve the Chaos gods and bring everlasting, drooling peace.

I think your overstating it a little there seems to be a direct correlation between psychic potential and the injudicious use of such potential and even then there seems to be exceptions such as the Orks where there has never really been any indication that their warlike activities buff khorne.

Except maybe the Khornate demonworld where that group of orks fights bersekers all day, gets slain to the last, then resurrected the next day to do it all over again. Besides, Orks don't reinforce Khorne (to our knowledge) because their brutality and cunning go to different deities: Gork and Mork. It's why Space marines fighting Khornate demons doesn't end in an auto win for the demons. The emotions and hatred and warfare brought to bear against their enemy doesn't fuel the demons there, because all of their focus (through prayer and meditation) is on the Emperor. It is only when the mind does not have focus, when things are done on random (chaotic) impulse that things begin to suffer. This has always seemed to be the best reason for keeping the Ecchlesiarchy around. Despite its opposition to the Imperial Truth, dogma keeps even the dumbest human satisfied with rote prayer and focus, while having faith in "humanity" as a whole is a bit of a harder concept to grasp.

The more realistic turn for the Astartes is that, in the wake of the 13th Black Crusade, documents are uncovered documenting the Imperial Truth. Marines begin questioning Dogma, and put their faith back in the primarchs and the goals of the Emperor, venerating rather than worshipping. Certain chapters break away completely from the Highlords, helping Humanity where they can rather than following orders. Other chapters see the highlords as a necessary evil: by following their lead, the chapters and guard can be coordinated to defend the Imperium. And others will continue to follow Dogma ... well... religiously.

As for the Tau's "immunity" to chaos, it's really much as has been said before. By having one tight, regulated faith structure, errant thoughts do not creep in, giving chaos few footholds. Also, without psykers they have barely any presence in the warp, meaning they are beneath most demons' notice. (Is that something delicious to corrupt? Oh wait. Naw, that's just a squirrel.) They probably could TRY, but yeesh. Tau emotions are so bland and tasteless. Why bother with all these trillions of delicious humans around? And O M G! Have you tasted the Eldar? Nom nom.

Honestly one of the best routes of corruption for the Tau would be through the least likely: Slaanesh. The Emperor's Children fell to the Prince of Pleasure not therough their love of raping those they defeated nor of their use of "combat enhancers" (read: PCP) but therough their desire for PERFECTION. They fought harder and harder to be perfect in every action, every drop, every shot, every swing of the chainsword. When Fulgrim found that sword... :shakes head:

There are so many logical ways to advance the storyline in 40k into January 1 41000. Ways, in fact, that don't honestly say much of ANYTHING. Space marines splintered off a little. Eldar lost a craftworld and discovered another one. The Tyranids have advanced a little further into space. And oh, hey. Something happened to the Golden throne (one way or another). You can advance the plot in small ways that have HUGE repercussions, and then you never say what those repercussions are. You just let the player figure it out in his or her own games of 40k.

The more I think about the fluff, the more excited I get for some reason, they should do a video with epic music of course. It should be various chapters discussing this new Galactic discovery but when the ultrmarines mention the tau need protecting, some chapters get angry and storm out which I know would at least be the templars and dark angels. Maybe even a few fights would be cool. Then showing some chapters leaving the planet (which the meeting was being held on), with narration about the imperium fracturing. Here I go again, day dreaming.

Kroothawk wrote:
1.) Tau being immune to Chaos: No incident of corrupted tau in the Codex.

That's irrelevant. No examples of corrupted Necrons won't make them saviors of humanity. In fact, in the previous iteration of Necron fluff, they had this idea of sealing off the Empyran from the real world, because the C'tan didn't like demons mucking about on their lawn. Now that would classify as saving everyone from Chaos.

Kroothawk wrote:2.) Mankind and the universe are in a state of global Montau, where people out of their mind are slaying each other for no reason at all. Hate and fear rule. This is worse than even today's earth. Now imagine that charismatic leaders preach peace, love and understanding in Dalai Lama style. Or control their emotions like Vulkans did. This could definitely weaken Chaos and break up the stalemate. Having a big mobile army immune to Chaos corruption helps of course, and having a new ally instead of another enemy as well.

The current fluff almost directly states the Tau brainwash themselves and pretty much any subordinate race they come in contact with. If the Imperium is dogmatic, the Tau are a cross between Hitlerjugend and Soviet re-educational camps.

As I said, everlasting peace, drooling slightly from the corner of it's mouth.

And yeah, I don't like Tau.

"Yeah, I'm not too sure ab-Wait a second. My Word Bearers could take Bloodcrushers now."

My want just increased exponentially.

Cerebrium wrote:"Yeah, I'm not too sure ab-Wait a second. My Word Bearers could take Bloodcrushers now."

My want just increased exponentially.

Yep, no more generic deamons, say hello to the full range

Cerebrium wrote:"Yeah, I'm not too sure ab-Wait a second. My Word Bearers could take Bloodcrushers now."

My want just increased exponentially.

Unless it's like the Allies system in Fantasy. In which case no, you don't get to cherry pick units from other codices to add to your army. Considering the rumor states that 40k will be using various fantasy mechanics, this seems much more likely and sensible. There's even an analogue between the Skaven and Tyranids in that no one wants to ally with them.

Jadenim wrote:

With regards to the fluff changes, I really think this depends on how it's done; if it's the entire Astartes organisation doing a 180 and setting up a cordon around the Tau empire then that will be terrible.

However if it were more of someone finding an ancient prophesy from the Emperor that speaks of the rise of a new race that will be the salvation of mankind from Chaos then that could prove interesting, as it would be open to interpretation. It could lead to all sorts of interesting fractures and friction in the imperium, for example:
)

But the problem is, the entire point of the 40k universe is that even if such a message was received, it would be completely ignored!

The 40k universe is run by dogma and reverence for traditions that spread back over 10,000 years. Look at our own history - when 'new' prophets or religious philosophers came up with some new idea about how things should be, the results were almost always bloody. Not because they were just challenging the faith of those traditionalists, but also the structures of power that were built around them. The Imperium in the 40k universe takes that idea to a ridiculous extreme - it doesn't matter if the 'proof' was a DNA-stamped approval letter from the Emperor, the heads of the Imperial government/church would never tolerate it's existence, not least because of the challenge it would represent to their rule. The dogma extends to humanities inherent and divine superiority over the alien, making it even less likely to be heeded - to borrow a joke from Red Dwarf, it would be like the discovery of a lost first page of the Bible saying, "All of the events in this book are fictitious, any characters or events similar to real people..... " etc. What do you think the Catholic church would do in such a situation?

So, for me, this is if true would be a thousand times worse than the BA and Necrons 'teaming up'. That was just a badly written paragraph taken out of context, this would be a reversal of the most fundamental concepts of the 40k universe, which have been built up over twenty years of rule books, codecies and Black Library material.

It would also involve taking the clock forward, which again would mean a first in the history of the descriptions of the game universe where it has always been a quarter to midnight.

So in short if this does come to pass.. then the time of ending really has arrived, and we can kiss goodbye to the game universe that so many of us have enjoyed for so long.

After reading the pair of Imperial Armour books about Huron & the Badab rebellion, I would love to learn more about how Space Marine Chapters break off & rebel. Those books described the various binding treatises & oaths between Space Marine chapters which forced them to declare all out war against each other... all because of Imperial bureaucracy & incompetence.

Pacific wrote:
The 40k universe is run by dogma and reverence for traditions that spread back over 10,000 years. Look at our own history - when 'new' prophets or religious philosophers came up with some new idea about how things should be, the results were almost always bloody. Not because they were just challenging the faith of those traditionalists, but also the structures of power that were built around them. The Imperium in the 40k universe takes that idea to a ridiculous extreme - it doesn't matter if the 'proof' was a DNA-stamped approval letter from the Emperor, the heads of the Imperial government/church would never tolerate it's existence, not least because of the challenge it would represent to their rule. The dogma extends to humanities inherent and divine superiority over the alien, making it even less likely to be heeded - to borrow a joke from Red Dwarf, it would be like the discovery of a lost first page of the Bible saying, "All of the events in this book are fictitious, any characters or events similar to real people..... " etc. What do you think the Catholic church would do in such a situation?

But you're making the assumption that it's the high lords of terra who find that letter from the emperor. Everything said seems to dictate that it's an astartes chapter (Ultramarines) who do. In that case who gives a gak what the high lords say, as they're weaker than the astartes. There is no modern equivalent to this as we might have the Church here IRL but no superhuman enforcers of their creed with a direct bloodline to God himself. Allies will work like Fantasy, the fluff here is out of context and being leaked in a manner to encourage flame wars. I'm sure the final end result will be much better than Blood Angels and Necrons are BFF's, or all marines must babysit the Tau.

While I may not like the specifics I do really hope the universe gets pushed a little bit forward even if only twenty years or so, let a few new things happen possibly have a few new characters rise up that kind of thing.

I don't believe any of these rumours for a second.

Although saying that, if they where true, I am so having a Scythes of the Emperor/Tau Hunter Cadre themed anti Tyranid force.