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ced1106 wrote:
KM's calling it an "Miniatures Adventure Game". Jump to 6:20. I'm seeing a team vs. team miniature skirmish game on a grid.

Could possibly have single and mulitplayer rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I contact Mark Latham on Twitter and he confirmed it team vs team objective based for 2 plus players.

I can't be the only one hoping for The Matrix miniatures adventure game...

"Each 35mm miniature is produced in high quality resin, making it ideal for collectors, painters and gamers alike. ... Players must explore these environments, resolving Challenges and Quests in order to secure victory."

The board sure looks like a miniatures skirmish game, but hopefully MK will release the rules during the campaign. Also, hopefully, the challenges won't be "make a skill check to pick up this objective" and "your quest is to defeat the enemy".

We can't post Tweets on Dakka, can we?

Anyway, a note on the minis and material:

https://twitter.com/aLostVictorian/status/964262768827424772

It's risky to mix a board game with no other option for miniatures than resin. Wargamers will generally not like the grid/board and board gamers will not like the resin. I see this being an issue, not to mention the other common complaints out there about KM. I also wonder if the timing is a subtle jab at Monolith since this will launch in the middle of the Batman board game KS.

I suspect the planned it to launch last year and it's taken all this time to get the final sign off from the IP holders as they did a bunch of teases and then went silent for ages

they'll now be scrambling to catch up with the lost sales as the clock on the licence will be ticking even if they haven't released anything yet

I don't think Harry potter will have much of any negative effect on monolith's batman game. They have been previewing batman for months... not to mention have two successfull kickstarters with beautiful plastic minis (conan/mythic battles). Everyone knows how the mechanics work and it was explained how they perfected the flaws of conan with this version. Minis will be great and durable, in high quality plastic.

I also note a few things. The Harry Potter game has fragile resin minis for a board game (so no kids... or broken minis). And there has been no info really on the game or how it is played. I also believe there are far more gamers that are also batman fans vs Harry potter fans (look at the amount of figures, statues, movies, books, miniatures, boars games, card games, etc... wide variety for dc and batman, very limited if any for Harry Potter.

Such a niche market I'm not sure why KM went down this path. However it makes sense they are doing a KS, as I don't really see Harry Potter minis flying off the shelves Im sure the KM kickstarter will go fine, but it wont be record setting based on the previous info. My only worry is their customer service. I'm still missing pieces with no responses to my emails from their batman game, from three years ago!! From what I've seen you have to complain on their Facebook page to get a response of 'email us'.

 455_PWR wrote:
I also note a few things. The Harry Potter game has fragile resin minis for a board game (so no kids... or broken minis). And there has been no info really on the game or how it is played. I also believe there are far more gamers that are also batman fans vs Harry potter fans (look at the amount of figures, statues, movies, books, miniatures, boars games, card games, etc... wide variety for dc and batman, very limited if any for Harry Potter.

I don't know if I agree with this in terms of merchandise.

Harry Potter fans buy a ton of merchandise, just check out the official site: https://www.harrypottershop.com

It is broken down by House and Character and there is a wide variety of items for each. The fandom is pretty thirsty for HP stuff.

So, in terms of gamers who are HP fans, I think there is going to be a high demand for such quality, movie-accurate resin miniatures. And even non-gamers wanting the minis for display. Lots of adult HP fans, after all.

You missed my point. If you reread my post, it was in reference to gamers, not overall fans of a theme. I checked that store, besides puzzles, chess, etc, there are no major board games, miniature wargames, or miniature based board games (what we are here talking about, not shirts, mouse pads, etc).

On the flipside, there are lots of batman board games, card games, miniature games, and fans of batman games. Some of the more popular one being KM batman miniature game, DCUMG, heroclix, dice masters, other deck building games, characters in zombicide, etc.

My point was this won't hurt pledges for the batman game... there are many fans out there for batman. On the flipside, stats show HP games are a small a niche market.

Repeating what I said... I'm sure the HP KS will do fine, but it wont be raising record numbers. The batman game I'm sure will do well over a million dollars based on conan and MBP.

 455_PWR wrote:
You missed my point. If you reread my post, it was in reference to gamers, not overall fans of a theme. I checked that store, besides puzzles, chess, etc, there are no major board games, miniature wargames, or miniature based board games (what we are here talking about, not shirts, mouse pads, etc).

No need to get snippy. And I am pretty sure I understood your point, I just rejected it because you are under the impression the HP fandom is small and not interested in these miniatures. Consider that because there are no board games in the HP store, but practically every other type of item you could want to buy (there is a Hermione kids wig for crying out loud), that a board game would generate more demand because it is novel. But even still, that wasn't the point, the point I was making was that HP fans who are gamers, will snatch up the board game figures, and there are a lot of those fans out there. Your opinion that Harry Potter minis won't be "flying off the shelves" is what I disagree with.

 455_PWR wrote:
On the flipside, stats show HP games are a small a niche market.

What stats? Please share. Also, HP is not a niche market. How many Batman theme parks are there because there are two Harry Potter theme parks in the United States and one in Japan. The fandom is huge, which means the number of HP gamers in that group is sizable just playing the numbers game.

I've never been too much into Harry Potter as a book series or movies, but I did have an ex that was dumb as a brick and probably read two books her entire life, until Harry Potter came about (I got dragged to most of those movies, too, more than once). I didn't really enjoy it, and even still- I can't really see wanting to get into this but I can imagine it would have quite the appeal.

I have some Knight miniatures, only because I was trying to drum up some DC/Batman miniature gaming in the area I lived in not long ago. They are pretty good quality, and reasonably priced. As far as the game system goes, it's pretty 'okay'. If nothing else, if you like anything Knight Miniatures makes models for, then it's worth it just for the figure on the shelf (where my Batman collection should be).

Last time I'll comment on this before moving on. I was initially responding to posts regarding how this might affect the batman ks. You missed my whole posts points again, even when i pointend out what the focus was. I'm not talking fan base, theme parks, and fan goodies. This is a gaming community and I was and am only talking themed games (batman vs Harry potter fans). You can find most stats on bgg... I'll let you look it up yourself if you want.

That's ok if you don't agree with it won't be flying off the shelves, we don't have to agree (it's america after all!). I did say it will do well, it just won't hurt batman. I guess we will find out soon

My initial comment about the HP project starting during the Monolith Batman project was more about speculating whether Knight Models chose to launch at that time as a way to possibly hurt Monolith's project. I think we can all agree that the Harry Potter game will fund and have plenty of fans.

My main concern is including resin as the only option for the miniatures in a board game. The appeal of HP goes well beyond wargamers, as has been well discussed. However, are those folks going to want to purchase a game with resin models? Resin isn't exactly non-toxic, plus is tends to be more brittle and fiddly than PVC or other board game plastics. Quality control for resin models is tougher, as well. I would not recommend resin models, and thus any game containing such, for non-wargamers.

Although, that's more of an issue for people once they get the game. A cynical person could say, by that point, Knight already has their money... More generously, breaking the models is a thing that MAY happen, not a thing that WILL happen. - Though Hermione does scare me a little bit.

I don't think people will be looking too closely at the material, or over thinking that. But there might be some concern about ease of assembly.

As for resin toxicity... People, please don't eat your minis...

Agreed. My guess is that KM switched from metal to resin for their miniatures to lower the price, at the same time they were developing the HP game, possibly as a non-grid miniatures skirmish game, sold through retail. Then, for whatever reasons (eg. lowered risk), they decided to go through KS. But, since they don't have plastics experience (?) they went with resin, which may not be a good idea, based on the QA issues raised of their current products.

As for resin itself, I'm under the impression that resin models are sold un-assembled, another turn-off for many non-wargamers?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1410/677984.page

I've got a few of the resin minis and broadly speaking, they've got minimal parts. - EG, an arm, a leg or a gun to glue on. Nothing like the hell that was the Suicide Squad Katana.

My biggest problem so far was the Zatanna mini, and that ultimately ended up being a result of me being overenthusiastic when trimming down flash.

@Compel: Did you have any QA issues like 455_PWR and Aeneades described (in the link in my post). Thanks!

The main problem I've had was a result of me being really stupid with Zatanna's leg.

Aside from that, I do like the resins.



Aside from that, well, I think any parts problems I've had have been a result of me being dumb and losing the parts. - EG Etrigan's hand...

 Compel wrote:
I've got a few of the resin minis and broadly speaking, they've got minimal parts. - EG, an arm, a leg or a gun to glue on. Nothing like the hell that was the Suicide Squad Katana.

My biggest problem so far was the Zatanna mini, and that ultimately ended up being a result of me being overenthusiastic when trimming down flash.

Second the Katana issue - my painter has given up on that and he is really good at this stuff.

Why do they make so many bits for some figures when you see so many models that are one piece with similar or even more detail, poses etc... And if they are making many bits - having mounting points etc is pretty essential when they are often so slender and hard to fix.

I'd say that, judging from the resins so far, it's something that they're trying to avoid. The most complex resin one I've had so far was Etrigan, who had his head, and 2 hands to glue on. Even then, being a demon, he had decently sized mounting points. - Only problem was I lost a hand somewhere between washing him and assembling him.

Oooh....

Hmmm...

My wife has practically zero interest in my toy soldiers game and doesn't get Kickstarter. She does, however really like Harry Potter (in a normal person kind of way, not one of those Quidditch playing nutters!)

I, on the other hand have been playing miniatures games for 30 years and have spent a bit too much money on Kickstarters. I have only a very mild interest in HP.

This is going to be interesting!

Normally, I couldn't give a toss about the material that minis are done in, but this is one instance where PVC rather than resin would be the best compromise. Can you imagine the numbers of people wanting replacements for stuff that arrives at their house because all of the minis are "broken"?

With Knight models they are likely to be waiting a long time as well (currently at 3 months with no reply plus a ban from the official batman group for responding to someone asking if anyone else was still waiting). It’s a shame as they have really stepped up the game in terms of sculpt quality but quality control and customer service have taken a real hit in the last year.

Aeneades wrote:
With Knight models they are likely to be waiting a long time as well (currently at 3 months with no reply plus a ban from the official batman group for responding to someone asking if anyone else was still waiting). It’s a shame as they have really stepped up the game in terms of sculpt quality but quality control and customer service have taken a real hit in the last year.

I’ve been waiting months for a replacement to my Bat-Mite who has no feet. I send a message and over a month for a send us a photo reply, it’s been months since I sent the photo and just received a message (a month later) saying replacement will be sent soon. So soon is at least a month.

Yes, now imagine that kind of "soon" matched with hordes of KS backers on a project that will likely be KM's largest production run of anything they've ever made. I worry most of all about non-gaming HP fans that may not know enough to see such a red flag.

I think it all depends on how complex KM do their kickstarter.

If it's just like:

"Here's the Harry Potter Game for $X."

They'll do fine.


If they start going down the mantic games route of addons and addons, swapping things in and out, custom sets and so on...

It's going to be a frigging disaster.

I am hoping that Knight Models use these incoming helps to help grow the company by employing a proper Customer Service Manager along with seeking advice on Quality Control especially with use of the new resin moulds (more frequent issue I see is that one of the models extremities breaks off in the mould and they don't realise so end up producing hundreds of models without a foot or back of head (both recent examples I have personally received).

It may sound like I am coming down hard of Knight Models but I really like the company and the products they put out but I think they have grown too quickly and not put enough resources into certain parts of the company such as QR and Customer Services.

Social Media is another area they haven't paid quite enough attention to with an official support group being run by people who ban anyone who criticises Knight Models effectively cutting them off from any official rule support or rulings.


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 Compel wrote:
I think it all depends on how complex KM do their kickstarter.

If it's just like:

"Here's the Harry Potter Game for $X."

They'll do fine.


If they start going down the mantic games route of addons and addons, swapping things in and out, custom sets and so on...

It's going to be a frigging disaster.

I am hoping they go down the Mantic Walking Dead route with one main pledge level any 2 or 3 expansion packs as addons with maybe another couple of terrain addons on top. No complicated swapping of items or hundreds of addons to pick from.

I'm still surprised they are doing a kickstarter for this. They didn't for the batman miniature game, mumg, dcumg, and those games grew st a good pace and have a good following. It looks like the resins are already done, and there is at least a prototype game made.

It seems more like they are using KS as a preorder system. Although KS is a good way to reach out and publicly introduce your game to folks who aren't part of gaming communities online.

Or it could cause the company to go bankrupt! ):

Dakka comments about KM's QA and customer service are my concern, and resin's not the best material for a mass-produced product. What large-scale resin KS have there been? HeroScape 25th Anniversary and (sorta) Aliens vs. Predator comes to mind, but... :/

I think what someone said earlier made sense.

It's less of a pre order system and more of almost a system to test the market. - Apparently this was a big problem with their Suicide Squad box set and, being something that could potentially make or break the company.