Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Primark G wrote:
A lot of people knew going into this event conscripts with indirect fire is winner... so this was just a confirmation of the existing meta.

DO you think the new Astra Militarium book will nerf this finally? maybe a nerf to running HQ spam as well? GW is paying attention for the first time in a long time so I hope some of these new codex's helps fix the "broken parts" of 40k quickly.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Why do you keep feeding this troll, just by his comments alone you should know that he does not care what you think. In his mind he has already decided how this works and looks and nothing said will convince him otherwise. Again you were NOT there, you are entitled to your opinion but that is all it is just like a butt hole everyone has one. But to drag on for 7 pages and cry about how your opinion is right is just sad. Go play in your small pond and enjoy your games, being an internet/40k forums troll is never going to provide you with what you really need.

Thousands of people had a good time and thanks to MVbrandt for actually doing the work with all the others that helped to make this a great event.

Amazes me even in my small pond when I run across people that have to argue every little thing, harmless mistake or otherwise when playing 40k. Even with travel, Prize support, hotels and event costs... you choose to play and deal with the good and bad of playing in events. Oh wait you don't play events... you just whine on the internet.

I was answering a question tough guy. For you to be an enabler for those that play fast and loose does say a lot about yourself. Particularly those at events.

Group think. Echo chamber.

Its like folks are so blinded by the "hype/inclusion" that everything is untouchable. I'm not going to back down from calling things as a see it. Call me a troll if you wish. I'm certainly not a lemming.

The Open winning list was illegal as well. Is that not true? Or just a little untrue?

My point is made each time you reply "tough guy". You are not a lemming, I would love to go into detail what you truly are but why give you the time. Good luck to you sir, I hope I never have to play you and listen to you tell me how important your opinion is.

Back to the event did anyone happen to see any great lists that may be meta changing?

And one last shout out to MVbrandt - you sir are a pretty awesome guy! Thanks for your hard work and contributions to the hobby! It shows!

totally agree with you on the troll. his pattern is to flame, then white knight... flame... then white knight... repeat. No answer will ever satisfy his narcissism.

Gonyo's list was solid and is meta defining. Its not spam, but it is a large amount of high quality units. I don't expect it to last past the guard codex coming out.... but the style of hordes + solid punches seems to be working currently.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
A lot of people knew going into this event conscripts with indirect fire is winner... so this was just a confirmation of the existing meta.

DO you think the new Astra Militarium book will nerf this finally? maybe a nerf to running HQ spam as well? GW is paying attention for the first time in a long time so I hope some of these new codex's helps fix the "broken parts" of 40k quickly.

My prediction is there will be some changes like reigning in conscripts... maybe more too. GW knows they are too cheap for what they do.

I think some of the tricks from Nicks & Carlo's lists with CSM kinda caught me out personally. I didn't play anyone with those tricks at their caliber by any means but if I had pulled the two of them it might have been a rough surprise. Has me playing with some fun ideas personally. And they'll handle the horde + solid units thing while doing the horde + solid unit thing

Also GK with a sprinkling of guard to get more CP and stuff to deploy so they can deepstrike is sweet.....And that's not cause that's what I played at all

 Primark G wrote:
A lot of people knew going into this event conscripts with indirect fire is winner... so this was just a confirmation of the existing meta.

Which is what was dominating end of 7th. The alpha strike power of barrage artillery is IMMENSE.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 frgsinwntr wrote:

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Why do you keep feeding this troll, just by his comments alone you should know that he does not care what you think. In his mind he has already decided how this works and looks and nothing said will convince him otherwise. Again you were NOT there, you are entitled to your opinion but that is all it is just like a butt hole everyone has one. But to drag on for 7 pages and cry about how your opinion is right is just sad. Go play in your small pond and enjoy your games, being an internet/40k forums troll is never going to provide you with what you really need.

Thousands of people had a good time and thanks to MVbrandt for actually doing the work with all the others that helped to make this a great event.

Amazes me even in my small pond when I run across people that have to argue every little thing, harmless mistake or otherwise when playing 40k. Even with travel, Prize support, hotels and event costs... you choose to play and deal with the good and bad of playing in events. Oh wait you don't play events... you just whine on the internet.

I was answering a question tough guy. For you to be an enabler for those that play fast and loose does say a lot about yourself. Particularly those at events.

Group think. Echo chamber.

Its like folks are so blinded by the "hype/inclusion" that everything is untouchable. I'm not going to back down from calling things as a see it. Call me a troll if you wish. I'm certainly not a lemming.

The Open winning list was illegal as well. Is that not true? Or just a little untrue?

My point is made each time you reply "tough guy". You are not a lemming, I would love to go into detail what you truly are but why give you the time. Good luck to you sir, I hope I never have to play you and listen to you tell me how important your opinion is.

Back to the event did anyone happen to see any great lists that may be meta changing?

And one last shout out to MVbrandt - you sir are a pretty awesome guy! Thanks for your hard work and contributions to the hobby! It shows!

totally agree with you on the troll. his pattern is to flame, then white knight... flame... then white knight... repeat. No answer will ever satisfy his narcissism.

Gonyo's list was solid and is meta defining. Its not spam, but it is a large amount of high quality units. I don't expect it to last past the guard codex coming out.... but the style of hordes + solid punches seems to be working currently.

He's not trolling. He's just got a different opinion. A bit of a crabby attitude too.

Not that he's the only one.

Yikes, I stop checking the tourney thread for one day post-Nova-hangover and look what happens...!

No more accusations of "trolling" "group thinking" "white knighting" "flaming" "echo chamber-ing" or any other rude descriptors for others participating in this thread!

I'm going to put this down to post-con craziness and avoid giving out any suspensions for now, but from here on make your point politely, with clear arguments to back it up, or just don't post.

Finally, we've discussed the particular rules misplay question enough, so let's move on from that, please.

Thanks all!

I just want to thank everyone for the great post tournament drama! Well done!

If only Nick had won - then it would have been even better!

Have always felt for tourney organizers - probably a few hundred folks had a great time that will never get talked about....

 ChainswordHeretic wrote:

Also those of us saying the opposing players need to take initiative to ask about rules realize that this is the only way mistakes get avoided, or that people abusing rules get caught.

Second part true, the first part no. Another way for mistakes to be avoided is to know the rules and play them correctly. I should be able to go to an organized event with the expectation I will be playing people with their rules available and that know how to play their army. Thinking I should go there with the expectation that I have to police my games to make sure I am not being cheated is bull. And where did anyone say only top players should be held to a certain standard. Bottom line it is a judgment call, except for what you call hard cheaters, loaded dice GTFO. For other things? pick up an extra dice when rolling for your heavy bolter a gentle please pay more attention to what your doing, Fine. This is described as an extra attack for Khorne Berserkers without the reference books when questioned, That is a lot bigger issue. Yes at that point I do think the other people he played should have been aware of the situation because ultimately it has the potential to affect their enjoyment for something they paid a lot of money to be a part of.

It seems like a lot of people are saying, he should never play rules wrong in the first place. Sure in an ideal world that is the case, but it isn't reality, and if no one questions the rules, then no one ever finds out that the mistake was made in the first place

That is were we disagree, yes no one is perfect, but the standard should be we try to know our rules and play correctly. You seem to think we should play it, that we can't trust anyone we're playing, and should watch them like a hawk. I don't see how that would be fun for anyone playing with that attitude?

No I think people should know their rules, but as you state no one is perfect (I've run very few tournaments where a ton of people were not making a bunch of rule mistakes.) I don't go into a game trusting that my opponent will never make mistakes, I'm not paranoid by it, but I also want to learn more about other armies, so when something surprises me I ask to see it. As for informing other players, I think doing so actually has a higher chance of affecting their enjoyment, than not doing so actually. Ignorance is bliss after all.

I think doing so actually has a higher chance of affecting their enjoyment, than not doing so actually. Ignorance is bliss after all.

Agreed, it most likely will affect their enjoyment, but which will affect it more? Meeting the issue head on, and showing those players possibly affected, that you take these issues seriously are our concerned if it affected them, or let them possibly find out second hand at the event, or from this thread, or some other place? If it was me that played him previously I would want them to let me know what happened, and I would probably say it was cool, some might not. By not addressing it with previous opponents It makes me think all you care about is getting through the tournament as fast as you can, and you don't really care about everyone having a good experience? I did have an experience like this years ago at Adepticon, I took a three wound model in Combat patrol, you can only take two wound models. I caught it after my third game and went to the judges, told them to give all my wins to my opponents, and took it upon myself to go to my previous opponents and apologize. They were all cool with it. But by not talking to them and pretending they weren't affected I would pretty muck guaranty that if they do find out by some other means they will have a much more negative opinion than if you just sucked it up and talked to them.

 ChainswordHeretic wrote:

I think doing so actually has a higher chance of affecting their enjoyment, than not doing so actually. Ignorance is bliss after all.

Agreed, it most likely will affect their enjoyment, but which will affect it more? Meeting the issue head on, and showing those players possibly affected, that you take these issues seriously are our concerned if it affected them, or let them possibly find out second hand at the event, or from this thread, or some other place? If it was me that played him previously I would want them to let me know what happened, and I would probably say it was cool, some might not. By not addressing it with previous opponents It makes me think all you care about is getting through the tournament as fast as you can, and you don't really care about everyone having a good experience? I did have an experience like this years ago at Adepticon, I took a three wound model in Combat patrol, you can only take two wound models. I caught it after my third game and went to the judges, told them to give all my wins to my opponents, and took it upon myself to go to my previous opponents and apologize. They were all cool with it. But by not talking to them and pretending they weren't affected I would pretty muck guaranty that if they do find out by some other means they will have a much more negative opinion than if you just sucked it up and talked to them.

Except that was you going to them and forfeiting the games of your own volition. TO me that is quite a different feeling from: "The results of the games remain as is because we cannot redo all the tournament scoring, but your opponent in game 2 played a rule wrong, here he is to apologize." I'm not sure how I would feel about that, probably that I got cheated and now that might weigh on my mind the rest of the day, effect my mood in other games (really depends on the player in question, how the game went, how big the rule infraction was.) In your case they probably end up with a negative opinion of you, but not of the event, but in the case where they get feel cheated and it ruins their enjoyment of the rest of the event, that is a worse outcome than them finding out post event. I guess it is just my opinion that mistakes happen and what is done is done, I don't want to think about those mistakes in later games, and how maybe they cost me an earlier game that I no longer have any control over. Also for most people it is more likely than not that they won't actually ever find out, because the mistaken player wasn't on a stream and isn't getting discussed on forums. They might read the rules later, and think "oh hey that guy played x wrong." Or talk with a friend that says "that isn't how that rule works"

Now I might think a person should apologize to players they have wronged, but they should do so because they think they should, not because the tournament forces them to do so on pain of some other penalty. IT would not be a genuine apology. You going to someone and saying "hey it came up in my last game that I had been playing X wrong, sorry I did that." assuming it even mattered in the game in question is meaningful and likely to mean people don't form a negative opinion about you. It is a good thing to do.

I guess my overall point is: If no one brings up your mistake, how do you even address it?

Had a great time at Nova .. cant wait till next year.

 zedsdead wrote:
Had a great time at Nova .. cant wait till next year.

Yeah this is my thought as well.

I may even bring the same list, since going 4-4 meant I could have a fun weekend while not simultaneously getting stomped on. It was great! Thanks Mike!

Nova is the one event I look forward to every year with my gaming group. This drama is irrelevant. I had a blast and will continuing doing so! - See everyone next year

@Breng77

In your case they probably end up with a negative opinion of you

Actually they respected it and we spent the rest of the weekend chatting and hanging out.

But lets bow out. I agree we high jacked a thread that should be about nova not expectations of players and possible consequences. I might start something in discussion about what people expectations are for their opponents at tournaments, If I do I'll let you know. I don't want to articulate your views incorrectly and I would like to see other peoples views on this.

 ChainswordHeretic wrote:
@Breng77

In your case they probably end up with a negative opinion of you

Actually they respected it and we spent the rest of the weekend chatting and hanging out.

But lets bow out. I agree we high jacked a thread that should be about nova not expectations of players and possible consequences. I might start something in discussion about what people expectations are for their opponents at tournaments, If I do I'll let you know. I don't want to articulate your views incorrectly and I would like to see other peoples views on this.

I'd be happy to join that thread as well, in a positive fashion. My frustration stemmed/stems from individuals (sometimes maliciously, sometimes innocently) making large stinks out of comparatively minor items, and in so doing both scare away potential folks from traveling to an AdeptiCon, NOVA, or LVO, and enjoying the awesome social experience it is, as well as direct attention away from the more important things (like rallying with a bunch of gamers to raise a bunch of money in support of making a meaningful / positive difference in the world).

Of course MVBrandt, Like I said It was never about you or the people involved for me. I have never heard anything but good things about your event, unfortunately at this point in my life there are other things competing for my dollars, IE the wife. But we are close to Chicago so she lets me have Adepticon every year I was going to put a disclaimer at the top of the discussion to keep events and individuals out of the discussion, that is not and should not be what it is about at least for me.

P.S. Kudos for raising 60K that is no small feet.

I'd also be interested in participating in a thread like that, Heretic, so please do link to it here if you post one! If it's specifically about tournaments, it could actually be in this section, too.

But I appreciate your not continuing it in this thread, and also think that a dedicated thread would be best served focusing on ideas / principles / etc, rather than specific individuals or instances, like we got side tracked on here.

Regarding Nova, I thought this year was extremely impressive - the vendor hall (where I spent most of my time at our booth!) was hugely improved, with FFG demo'ing Legion on one side of us, Shapeways on the other, and a huge Warlord stand across from us . The hall was really bustling!!

My one suggestion would be clearer (and probably shorter) vendor hall hours, as with the schedule listing 9am - 9pm we mostly had to confer among ourselves between booths about when to truly close, as most couldn't commit to being there the full 12 hours (I personally was about to fall over around 6 ). Also, the long listed hours meant sometimes attendees came when booths were closed, leading to one vendor (thankfully not us!) getting flamed on their FB page for closing

Otherwise, it was just awesome . Also, how did I not visit the lounge upstairs till this year, it was fantastic! And the few chances I got to visit the gaming halls looked like people were having a great time with a ton of smaller games well represented, too.

 RiTides wrote:
I'd also be interested in participating in a thread like that, Heretic, so please do link to it here if you post one! If it's specifically about tournaments, it could actually be in this section, too.

But I appreciate your not continuing it in this thread, and also think that a dedicated thread would be best served focusing on ideas / principles / etc, rather than specific individuals or instances, like we got side tracked on here.

Regarding Nova, I thought this year was extremely impressive - the vendor hall (where I spent most of my time at our booth!) was hugely improved, with FFG demo'ing Legion on one side of us, Shapeways on the other, and a huge Warlord stand across from us . The hall was really bustling!!

My one suggestion would be clearer (and probably shorter) vendor hall hours, as with the schedule listing 9am - 9pm we mostly had to confer along ourselves between booths about when to truly close, as most couldn't commit to being there the full 12 hours (I personally was about to fall over around 7 ). Also, the long listed hours meant sometimes attendees came when booths were closed, leading to one vendor (thankfully not us!) getting flamed on their FB page for closing . But otherwise, it was just awesome

Also, how did I not visit the lounge upstairs till this year, it was fantastic! And the few chances I got to visit the gaming halls looked like people were having a great time with a ton of smaller games well represented, too.

Mm, I think this was the first time the lounge was on the roof, but that was a great idea. Should definitely stay.

My wife vendors at other shows and they run into the same problem. Shrinking the window should help, though I know with how busy the schedule I'd signed up for was I wouldn't have been able to visit the vendor hall at all if there were reduced hours, ha!

Yeah, that's the dilemma of course

I think the rationale for listing those hours was to allow vendors to be open late if they wanted to, but to avoid confusion with what's in the packet, I would err on the other side - list shorter hours, but tell the vendors they're free to open earlier and close later if they want. Obviously, the Bits Guy stays open 24/7!

But having run our booth at other cons, I think attendees adjust to more limited hours by making an effort to run over between events. So listing a shorter window (say 10 - 6) and just allowing for flexibility would probably help everybody

I am going try working on it now Rtides. I will start it in discussion, because I think more people will see it, but feel free to move it if you think it would be better served somewhere else. Also, I respect your Moderating, please keep an eye on it and if it starts going off the rails shut it down
Title will be Expectations of a tournament player and handling issued that may arise. Hope it fits

Post a link here please... thanks.

Just FYI that new thread is here:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/738847.page

I see it is a good discussion going already.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
A lot of people knew going into this event conscripts with indirect fire is winner... so this was just a confirmation of the existing meta.

DO you think the new Astra Militarium book will nerf this finally? maybe a nerf to running HQ spam as well? GW is paying attention for the first time in a long time so I hope some of these new codex's helps fix the "broken parts" of 40k quickly.

The book had to be finished well before this even so no I don't think there will be a fic there. We can only hope for chapter approved this winter I would guess.